Insulin

Posted by: jgw

Insulin - 01/04/20 07:49 PM

I do not need/take Insulin. However, at least once a week I am treated to yet another pricing outrage by the greedy drug industry. The simple fact is that the man who invented insulin gave away his patent so anybody could make it which is the point of this topic.

If I did need Insulin I would have gone out to all other insulin users as I assume that not all insulin users are broke. I would ask them to join an organization formed to create a company to make and distribute Insulin for the right price (cost of production and distribution plus a profit to save for problems). If this effort succeeded I would then, with the same user's group, plus those being overcharged for generics, and the rising prices with generic drugs by also producing those to be sold at rock bottom prices. If done right such an organization would not be a for profit operation and could go far as at least a start to actually deal with drugs and prices.

If this could be pulled off I suspect that, at least, drugs that are no longer protected by copyright or patent can be distributed to those that need them for the right price.

What is going on, right now, is just crazy. This is particularly true of insulin users who, apparently, can't find a way to buy mail order from Canada or Mexico although such is readily available.

I think my plan would probably work. Those who are actually dying because they can't afford the drugs have, as far as I can tell however, done absolutely nothing but whine when they should be organizing! Its almost as if they are determined to die to make a point of their apparent inability to act in their own best interest. There are, apparently, MILLIONS that need this stuff yet nobody has even, as far as I know, even considered something like this. One can only wonder.

Just something else I simply do not understand. Makes no sense to me. I seem to be spending my entire life just not understanding stuff.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: Insulin - 01/04/20 09:13 PM

In a weirdly arrogant way JGW, you seem to have finally begun to grasp some concepts of socialism.

Your contempt of the poor and sick aside, you gunna help with that or victim shame.
Posted by: jgw

Re: Insulin - 01/04/20 09:41 PM

What socialism are you talking about? The one in the dictionary that says that state gets to own EVERYTHING? Or, maybe, a group of people getting screwed actually taking some responsibility to put a stop to their getting screwed?

You mean the poor and sick that DO NOT VOTE! I have very little sympathy to members of groups that are too busy to actually vote.
Posted by: Greger

Re: Insulin - 01/04/20 10:28 PM

The drug companies offer free insulin to anyone in need of help.

There are tons of patient assistance programs to get insulin into the hands of those who need it. Doctors will load you up with samples.

Coupons are available. Every state probably has some form of Medicaid.

It seems it's really the people in the middle who are screwed on this one. The ones with pretty good jobs but no insurance.
Posted by: Greger

Re: Insulin - 01/04/20 11:18 PM

Quote:
I would ask them to join an organization formed to create a company to make and distribute Insulin for the right price (cost of production and distribution plus a profit to save for problems).

Call that organization the US Government and you have arrived at socialism.

Call it much of anything else and you sudddenly need a CEO making $2.4Mil and an advertising budget to bring in more insulin addicts, and then the organization goes public and investors get a cut...and you've just created another pharmaceutical company.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/04/20 11:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
The drug companies offer free insulin to anyone in need of help.

There are tons of patient assistance programs to get insulin into the hands of those who need it. Doctors will load you up with samples.

Coupons are available. Every state probably has some form of Medicaid.

It seems it's really the people in the middle who are screwed on this one. The ones with pretty good jobs but no insurance.


Insulin is not one-size-fits-all.
The old style form of insulin does not work very well for certain persons, and in the past many of those persons died even while using insulin.

It's the advanced forms of the drug which are priced like Lamborghini engines.
The trouble is, we're now reaching numbers where some forms of diabetes would correctly be referred to as a national health emergency, almost an epidemic.


New CDC report: More than 100 million Americans have diabetes or pre-diabetes

That's almost a third of the country and out of that third, about forty million HAVE full blown Type 1 or Type 2 diabetes, which is costing us a half trillion dollars annually.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: Insulin - 01/05/20 02:28 PM

Originally Posted By: jgw
What socialism are you talking about? The one in the dictionary that says that state gets to own EVERYTHING? Or, maybe, a group of people getting screwed actually taking some responsibility to put a stop to their getting screwed?

You mean the poor and sick that DO NOT VOTE! I have very little sympathy to members of groups that are too busy to actually vote.


The latter actually. Workers owning the means of production.

The first definition is what cranks and hacks go to for to describe something so broad, deep and evolving as a political economic theory like socialism. A friggin dictionary definition!

So are you, JGW, advocating for a national holiday or something like it for makin6jg it easier for the working poor to go vote..

I wonder why that hasn't been done already....
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Insulin - 01/06/20 05:06 AM

Quote:
Workers owning the means of production.


You mean like WinCo? A corporation with an extensive ESOP plan.

There does not seem to be a legal way to force that happen, but several companies do that on their own. Especially lots of legal firms and limited partnerships.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: Insulin - 01/06/20 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Workers owning the means of production.


You mean like WinCo? A corporation with an extensive ESOP plan.


No, somehow I don’t think Marx’s prescription for inhumane and destructive capitalism was an employee stock option plan. I could be wrong though.
Posted by: jgw

Re: Insulin - 01/06/20 07:05 PM

Ahhhhhhhhh! I think you mean the classic socialism. The workers own everything and they have a committee to decide things. The committee is normally run by one man usually referred to as 'leader'.

Yah, that's a really good idea!

I betcha if you sat down with your pal Trump you would find that he already occupies that position and he is doing his very best for the workers who own everything.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: Insulin - 01/06/20 07:24 PM

Where did you find the ‘classic’ definition of socialism JGW?

But, no, I’m not agreeing to your adolescent definitions of socialism any more your ideas of capitalism.

Those are your definitions bubbah.

You’ll be pleased to hear that the poors around me agree with your scorn!
Of course! The answer to unaffordable life saving medicine is to simply build a modern pharmaceutical manufacturing plant and set up or partner with a distribution chain.

Heck, the diabetic poors are already starting to shame the chemotherapy poors. The competitive marketplace restoring rational price signaling!
Posted by: Hamish Howl

Re: Insulin - 01/06/20 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: jgw
Ahhhhhhhhh! I think you mean the classic socialism. The workers own everything and they have a committee to decide things. The committee is normally run by one man usually referred to as 'leader'.

Yah, that's a really good idea!


You just described the American government.
Posted by: jgw

Re: Insulin - 01/07/20 08:03 PM

I have always found the whole thing pretty entertaining. Chunk, for instance, knows all the words and phrases starting with "the workers" harken back to the old Communist days before 1917. Now we are in modern times. Don' make no difference. Same stuff. Now, however, we are told that our government comes from "the people" and "the people run the government through their vote". Sounds about as good as the the old Commies did.

In our case they are right, and wrong. For instance, if a voting turnout more than 50% occurs its heralded as huge, a landslide, etc. Its not, its a disgrace, it means that normal is when fewer than half the electorate actaully vote. All of us have wondered about the supporters of Trump. Those folks have been polled on just about everything. The results are a bit startling. Just for starters a majority of them would prefer for the government to go away so Trump can REALLY fix things! These people are walking, lockstep, to Fascism. Here is one description of that one:
"Fascism is a form of government that is a type of one-party dictatorship. Fascists are against democracy. ... Fascism puts nation and often race above the individual. It stands for a centralized government headed by a dictator. Historically, fascist governments tend to be militaristic, and racist."

This is SERIOUS! We are concerned about Trump's actions, with reason. But, 40% of this nation seems to be Fascist! This is where Hitler was in the 30's! Does everybody here think that if Trump loses the next election he is going to go quietly? Really? Hell, his supporters will not allow that to happen. They have found Righteous Truth in God's Appointed on Earth and that seems to be a literal fact!

I have watched, on this site, lefties duke it out over this and that. I have watched the Dems in so-called debates attack each other instead of Trump! My suspicion is that we are in serious trouble and, as far as I can tell, nobody is really all that upset. I am old and can weather it but my kids can't and my grandchildren, and great grandchildren sure as hell can't. There are voices out there talking about this but they are a bit muted. There are people, on this site, who have proudly stated that if their choice doesn't get the Dem not he/she will not vote. Yah, another great idea! WTF!!!!!!!

I have no idea why I just went off like that. I believe what I said but, still..............
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/07/20 08:36 PM

The government largely HAS "gone away" and Trump REALLY IS fixing things. He's just getting warmed up.

Let him win another four years and with another split House and Senate, or worse, another GOP trifecta and he will REALLY fix things.
He'll fix everything, starting with that pesky democracy business.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Insulin - 01/07/20 08:53 PM

Quote:
No, somehow I don’t think Marx’s prescription for inhumane and destructive capitalism was an employee stock option plan. I could be wrong though.


It's the modern implementation of the workers owning the means of production. Talk to some WinCo employees. They really do have a sense of ownership. Of course, you can't take a job with them and suddenly have an equal share as people who have been working there for 30 years. That wouldn't be fair. So I think it's actually better than Marx's "ESOP" plan. (<--joke)

You can talk about the revolution that sets everything right (in terms of workers owning the MOP) in one fell swoop, but nobody believes that actually works. This does so within the existing set of laws, due process, and fiduciary responsibility. Sorry if it does not involve enough heads on poles.
Posted by: Hamish Howl

Re: Insulin - 01/07/20 09:08 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
No, somehow I don’t think Marx’s prescription for inhumane and destructive capitalism was an employee stock option plan. I could be wrong though.


It's the modern implementation of the workers owning the means of production. Talk to some WinCo employees. They really do have a sense of ownership. Of course, you can't take a job with them and suddenly have an equal share as people who have been working there for 30 years. That wouldn't be fair. So I think it's actually better than Marx's "ESOP" plan. (<--joke)

You can talk about the revolution that sets everything right (in terms of workers owning the MOP) in one fell swoop, but nobody believes that actually works. This does so within the existing set of laws, due process, and fiduciary responsibility. Sorry if it does not involve enough heads on poles.


We can still do the heads on pikes thing, though.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Insulin - 01/07/20 09:17 PM

The main problem with American Medicine is that universities and research institutions do government funded research and when they discover a useful drug, the government gives it to a pharmaceutical company "for development". That consists of running some lab tests (to duplicate the universities results) and then running clinical trials (almost always at university medical centers). Nobody goes to Pfizer's clinic for their drug trial, because Pfizer does not HAVE a clinic. Note that so far government grants and state universities have paid for almost everything.

Then the patent office gives the drug company a patent on it, and the FDA gives them an exclusive license to make and sell the drug for many years. They can charge ANYTHING they want, and insurance companies, the VA, and Medicare have to pay it. (Insurance companies and VA can negotiate, but not much.) They can also set the royalty charge to anything they want to lock other manufacturers out.

This is government-enforced extortion, plain and simple. A drug I take was used for decades for autoimmune diseases in the public domain. It costs about $10 a pound to make. Then an American drug company tested it against MS (an autoimmune disease), found it worked pretty well, and got a patent on a time-release version. (Although the non-time-release version probably works as well.) They have locked everybody else out for years, and they charge upwards of $70,000 per year for it.

Congress could fix this easily: Just change the exclusive right law (or maybe those are just FDA regulations) so any legitimate drug manufacturer can make such drugs, and limit the royalty charges to something like 10 times what it costs to make it. Or even 100 times, because they are charging about 70,000 times as much for it now!
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Insulin - 01/07/20 09:25 PM

Quote:
We can still do the heads on pikes thing, though.


Outstanding! Noting quite as exhilarating as marching triumphant along a parade route lined with your enemies heads on pikes. Historically, that has always been the punishment for treason. A conservative principle I admire.
Posted by: Greger

Re: Insulin - 01/07/20 10:03 PM

Quote:
There are people, on this site, who have proudly stated that if their choice doesn't get the Dem not he/she will not vote.


I think I'm the only one who has said I will not vote for Biden. I don't really have a preferred candidate but I'm a progressive and I'd like to see a progressive candidate get the nod...Pretty much anybody but Biden will get my vote. If Democrats are stupid enough to choose Biden then they deserve the beating they'll take with him against Trump. I doubt if Chunks would vote Biden but he hasn't come right out and said it recently.

Simply put...it's up to you Democrats to beat Trump. If you can't do it on your own with Biden don't come whining to me about it. Don't come whining to the sick and poor because we don't vote for stupid candidates that won't do anything to help. This government belongs entirely to those two parties and their members.

Duke it out among yourselves. Don't blame the rest of us if your party can't beat Trump with that washed up old fart. Apparently you refuse to support a socialist. I'm okay with that, I'm okay if you refuse to vote for Bernie when he gets the nod. I don't care who you vote for or whether you vote at all.

And I don't care what the polls say, Biden will not be able to beat Trump. Elect him as your nominee at your own peril.

Generic insulin is $25 a vial at Walmart. Over the counter. No prescription has ever been required to buy it. An insulin syringe is about 50 cents. Insulin is insulin. Some is fast acting and some is slow acting but any diabetic can use any of it in a pinch.
This is BS...kid quit taking his meds and died...
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 12:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger


Generic insulin is $25 a vial at Walmart. Over the counter. No prescription has ever been required to buy it. An insulin syringe is about 50 cents. Insulin is insulin. Some is fast acting and some is slow acting but any diabetic can use any of it in a pinch.
This is BS...kid quit taking his meds and died...


Are you absolutely sure that you read the entire story about that kid?
I ask because insulin is not one size fits all and while he might have wound up dead anyway forty years ago, the fact is, when he tried to use generic insulin, it made his life unmanageable to a large degree.

Snopes Fact Check

Certain Type 1 diabetics and even a small number of Type 2 diabetics have advanced risk of ketoacidosis even if they take generic insulin regularly. That is the reason newer versions of the drug, like Humalog, (just as one example) were invented and developed.

Alec is his real name, not Alex, and he had to have a specific kind of Humalog Insulin to avoid the rapid pogo stick fluctuations in his blood sugar and to ward off ketoacidosis attacks.

The fact that well over a third of the country is either pre-diabetic or diabetic makes it pretty clear that this is now a bonafide national health emergency, like polio or AIDS.

Call me crazy but I think when something reaches that level, it warrants some sort of special handling, but maybe that's just me.

BTW, don't even get me started on the Dialysis Racket.
Posted by: Greger

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 01:31 AM

Humalog is $96 a vial. Granted it was $14 the first time I ever bought it and maybe $65 the last time I bought it. But it isn't crazy expensive. The drug maker will also work with you if you have problems paying for it. Coupons are available online. Doctors will give you samples.
Medicaid will pay for it. Although this lad was making $700 a week or so and wouldn't qualify for some programs. Without insulin you die, so it's the first thing you buy. If you run out you call mom or your doctor or somebody. My ex used to have to buy me a vial now and then.
Trust me...I know about rationing insulin. But if you're going to play that close to the edge you've gotta keep a close watch on the numbers.

This kid didn't and it killed him.

But these are the kinds of memes and stories that started this thread and I just wanted to let it be known there are plenty of safety nets and plenty of places to go for help as far as insulin goes.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 04:11 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Humalog is $96 a vial. Granted it was $14 the first time I ever bought it and maybe $65 the last time I bought it. But it isn't crazy expensive. The drug maker will also work with you if you have problems paying for it. Coupons are available online. Doctors will give you samples.
Medicaid will pay for it. Although this lad was making $700 a week or so and wouldn't qualify for some programs. Without insulin you die, so it's the first thing you buy. If you run out you call mom or your doctor or somebody. My ex used to have to buy me a vial now and then.
Trust me...I know about rationing insulin. But if you're going to play that close to the edge you've gotta keep a close watch on the numbers.

This kid didn't and it killed him.

But these are the kinds of memes and stories that started this thread and I just wanted to let it be known there are plenty of safety nets and plenty of places to go for help as far as insulin goes.



Oh I agree that there are SOME safety nets but it appears this kid, like most young people, fell through the cracks AND did not want to be dependent on others anymore.

But again, with almost a third of the country being affected, this really IS a lot like the polio scares at this point.
A third of the population is a lot of people, and it just doesn't make sense because insulin is not an iPhone and while it's okay for Apple to pull top dollar for the new iPhone because a third of the country wants one, I can't wrap my brain around a third of the country having to worry about running out of something they can't live without.

PS: I am not sure this young guy was on Medicaid.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 04:43 AM

Oh yeah, PS: I know I am not the only one that notices that broadcast TV today consists of a nonstop onslaught of pharmaceutical commercials.
And I mean one after another after another ad nauseum.

Big pharma has to be paying out multi-billions for all that airtime.
Thing is, it's reached such a saturation level that, at least for folks like me, it's beginning to have the opposite of the intended effect.
It feels like we're in one of those Chinese reeducation camps, one that you don't get to leave until you can recite the doctor disclaimers at the end by rote.

Has everyone else noticed that every single pharmaceutical gives everyone (A) headache and (B) nausea, and for some....(C) DEATH. ??

Quote:
"Do not use this product if you are in or have been to an area with certain fungal infections."


Which fungal infections?

Quote:
"Do not use this product if you are allergic to it or any of its ingredients."


How the @#^!)$% do I know if I am allergic to it and how do I know what the ingredients are?
Posted by: SimonSC

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 02:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
... and Trump REALLY IS fixing things.


"Fix" as in "fix a car" or as in "fix a cat"? wink

As for insulin: there has been a development up here which might limit the supply of the cheap Canadian stuff available for "export".
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 05:45 PM

Originally Posted By: SimonSC
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
... and Trump REALLY IS fixing things.


"Fix" as in "fix a car" or as in "fix a cat"? wink

As for insulin: there has been a development up here which might limit the supply of the cheap Canadian stuff available for "export".


I've often said that America's street dope dealers could transform themselves into modern day folk heroes if they switched product lines.
Instead of slinging crack, coke, heroin, meth and all the other terrible street drugs, they should consider becoming mobile black market pharmacies, slinging insulin, ED pills, cancer drugs, AIDS drugs and the like...any pharmaceutical which costs so damn much that people are forced to choose between medicating and keeping the lights on or feeding themselves or otherwise getting by.

We already saw it begin to happen back in the early 90's with "the Dallas Buyer's Club" when they tried supplying AIDS drugs in Texas.

Those guys actually saved lives.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: SimonSC
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
... and Trump REALLY IS fixing things.


"Fix" as in "fix a car" or as in "fix a cat"? wink

As for insulin: there has been a development up here which might limit the supply of the cheap Canadian stuff available for "export".


Oh wow, holy mackerel, sounds like diabetic coma in a bowl! ROTFMOL
Posted by: jgw

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 07:14 PM

I have been pounding that drum for years - to no avail. I think the only real answer is the one some countries have done. Drug companies get regulated and there is a cap put on profit. In addition to that expenses must be real expenses, etc. Drugs are part of the healthcare system. The healthcare system, including device manufacturers, drug companies, hospitals, etc. are All part of the healthcare system and should be dealt with as such. This also goes for all the rest of it. We need, basically, a socially supported healthcare system with all that infers.

I know, the current crop of Democratic candidates all have some kind of plan to do the job. The unfortunate part is that none of them, as far as I can tell, has examined what other countries have done, and how they did it, and how well it works. Canada's, for instance, is pretty straight forward. If you are a Canadian you have healthcare and you pay for it with your taxes. Taxes pay for the healthcare and also regulate healthcare, ALL healthcare (including drugs which explains why theirs is so much cheaper than ours). The thing is that all healthcare systems are note identical. Take a look at the healthcare system in Switzerland, for instance - waaay different from the Canadian plan.

The Democratic candidates seem to like medicare for all. There is one little difference, it will pay for EVERYTHING, has little to do with medicare, and is going to be incredibly expensive because it doesn't cover the regulations on such things as drugs at all! If we are going to have a socially paid for healthcare system then the whole works needs regulation! That's part of the social thing. Its just like other social services paid for by taxes like police, firemen, public education, etc. It may also be of interest that Obamacare was actually causing a downward trend in our own healthcare - right up until Trump went to work on it.

All that being said I should also mention lazy Americans. In my state there is a school district where even the parents of children don't vote. Their schools are, literally, sinking into the earth, teachers are underpaid, there are no supplies, etc. The school board has been entrenched for years because the voters, apparently, just are not interested in either their children or their schools. The school board itself keeps on asking for the public to step up but gets noplace. This is not the fault of the school board this is the fault of the voting public! This is also not an isolated instance. Please consider, if a little school district is in trouble because of lazy voters just think about statewide problems that get the same treatment. Then consider national service problems that get the same treatment. Our national infrastructure is a good example of that. Its failing because the voters failed to elect somebody who actually gives a damn. The same holds true right down the line to small school districts. We REALLY need a system that defines places that have problems because of lazy voters. When that happens there should probably be some way to, at the very least, shame them through the media to do their damned jobs. Voting may be a right but its also a responsibility. I support mandatory voting! Its worked for Australia (last to install mandatory voting, I think).

Anyway..................
Posted by: Greger

Re: Insulin - 01/08/20 09:31 PM

Quote:
The unfortunate part is that none of them, as far as I can tell, has examined what other countries have done, and how they did it, and how well it works.

What makes you think this? I personally imagine that proponents of socialized medicine here have studied in detail what's been done in other countries. Probably both Warren and Sanders could tell you far more than you ever wanted to know about how the UK, Canada, and most of Europe achieved socialized medicine.

First you need a progressive government which places the needs of people above the needs of capital. A government that answers to its people, not its corporations.

We call it social democracy, you call it SOCIALISM.
Posted by: Hamish Howl

Re: Insulin - 01/09/20 02:59 PM

Originally Posted By: jgw

If I did need Insulin I would have gone out to all other insulin users as I assume that not all insulin users are broke. I would ask them to join an organization formed to create a company to make and distribute Insulin for the right price (cost of production and distribution plus a profit to save for problems).


Thing is, your life would immediately become a serious of unfortunate misunderstandings with the FDA.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/09/20 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: jgw

If I did need Insulin I would have gone out to all other insulin users as I assume that not all insulin users are broke. I would ask them to join an organization formed to create a company to make and distribute Insulin for the right price (cost of production and distribution plus a profit to save for problems).


Thing is, your life would immediately become a serious of unfortunate misunderstandings with the FDA.


True, but when it comes to black market distribution, the FDA has nowhere near the experience, resources, manpower or budget to deal with the level of underground distro that the DEA has had with street drugs, dealers, cartels, etc.

And the DEA itself is not equipped to handle the optics of busting underground distro of lifesaving medication, so while they certainly would get involved and try to help the FDA, again...optics.
What does the public think of FDA and DEA "cracking down" on seniors and disabled people who are resorting to any means necessary to get the lifesaving medications that they cannot afford in the retail pharma sector.

I do not think news coverage of drug agents and the FDA hauling away people in wheelchairs and the folks who supplied them with their meds will play well in Peoria.
Peoria loves it when the po-po busts crack dealers, but Great Aunt Effie and her supplier going to the pokey because Effie couldn't afford her cancer drugs (or insulin) would cause Peoria to get out the pitchforks and torches.

In fact, it would play about as well as watching police arrest church people for feeding poor people..."without the necessary permits".



In fact, it might even meet with an even chillier reception, because disabled and seniors who need lifesaving meds are viewed even more sympathetically than the homeless.



Posted by: Hamish Howl

Re: Insulin - 01/09/20 04:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: Hamish Howl
Originally Posted By: jgw

If I did need Insulin I would have gone out to all other insulin users as I assume that not all insulin users are broke. I would ask them to join an organization formed to create a company to make and distribute Insulin for the right price (cost of production and distribution plus a profit to save for problems).


Thing is, your life would immediately become a serious of unfortunate misunderstandings with the FDA.


True, but when it comes to black market distribution, the FDA has nowhere near the experience, resources, manpower or budget to deal with the level of underground distro that the DEA has had with street drugs, dealers, cartels, etc.

And the DEA itself is not equipped to handle the optics of busting underground distro of lifesaving medication, so while they certainly would get involved and try to help the FDA, again...optics.
What does the public think of FDA and DEA "cracking down" on seniors and disabled people who are resorting to any means necessary to get the lifesaving medications that they cannot afford in the retail pharma sector.

I do not think news coverage of drug agents and the FDA hauling away people in wheelchairs and the folks who supplied them with their meds will play well in Peoria.
Peoria loves it when the po-po busts crack dealers, but Great Aunt Effie and her supplier going to the pokey because Effie couldn't afford her cancer drugs (or insulin) would cause Peoria to get out the pitchforks and torches.

In fact, it would play about as well as watching police arrest church people for feeding poor people..."without the necessary permits".

In fact, it might even meet with an even chillier reception, because disabled and seniors who need lifesaving meds are viewed even more sympathetically than the homeless.


1. Funding would be found. Ed Lilly and Norvo Nordisk would see to that.

2. The reception was chilly, but nothing changed.

Quote:
"Just because of media attention we don't stop enforcing the law. We enforce the laws here in Fort Lauderdale," Mayor Jack Seiler told WPLG.
He defended the law in an interview with the Sun-Sentinel newspaper.
"I'm not satisfied with having a cycle of homeless in the city of Fort Lauderdale," Seiler said. "Providing them with a meal and keeping them in that cycle on the street is not productive."
But Abbott, who has been helping feed homeless people in the area through his Love Thy Neighbor nonprofit since 1991, said authorities are targeting the city's most vulnerable residents.
"These are the poorest of the poor. They have nothing. They don't have a roof over their head," he said. "Who can turn them away?"
Recently, the city has also passed an ordinance limiting the storage of personal property in public, WPLG said. Then came the restrictions for food sharing.
"The city passed an ordinance requiring us to have a Porta-Potty. It's ridiculous. The whole thing was designed to rid Fort Lauderdale of its homeless," Abbott said. "Police told me anyone who touches a pan ... anyone who is involved, will be arrested."


https://www.cnn.com/2014/11/04/justice/florida-feeding-homeless-charges/index.html

That was 2014.

Quote:
San Diego attorney Scott Dreher said in a telephone interview a dozen people were arrested over the weekend for sharing food with homeless people in an El Cajon park. Offenders were charged with two misdemeanors, but no one was taken into custody, Dreher said.

The attorney said Mayor Wells has made controversial public statements about homelessness in the county — statements that could be used in court to show that the food-sharing law is discriminatory.


https://www.courthousenews.com/a-dozen-people-arrested-for-feeding-the-homeless/

That was 2018. There are at least 6 other examples in the last two years, to include seven people in Tampa in 2017.

A chilly reception means nothing at all.

Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Insulin - 01/09/20 07:29 PM

Of course the perfect defense for feeding the homeless is religious duty, as in Matthew 25: If you want to go to heaven, Jesus said you HAVE to feed the hungry. That "religious duty" thang has been a big part of Republican platforms lately, so I think charging people under these laws is something that generates a big stink in the press.
Posted by: Greger

Re: Insulin - 01/09/20 07:37 PM

Black market meds? Didn't we just have a huge health scare with black market vape cartridges?

So can guys make insulin in their garages? I'm a carpenter, not a chemist. THey can make heroin and meth and a variety of other illicit or counterfeit drugs.
Quote:
the DNA code for making human insulin is placed into bacteria or yeast cells; the insulin made by this process is then purified and sold as human insulin.

Sounds easy enough?

Could we maybe buy a kit from Amazon to make our own insulin from household items?
Posted by: Hamish Howl

Re: Insulin - 01/09/20 07:45 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Black market meds? Didn't we just have a huge health scare with black market vape cartridges?

So can guys make insulin in their garages? I'm a carpenter, not a chemist. THey can make heroin and meth and a variety of other illicit or counterfeit drugs.
Quote:
the DNA code for making human insulin is placed into bacteria or yeast cells; the insulin made by this process is then purified and sold as human insulin.

Sounds easy enough?

Could we maybe buy a kit from Amazon to make our own insulin from household items?


It's not easy at all. I mean, you can do it easily enough, but I wouldn't bet the farm on the purity.
Posted by: jgw

Re: Insulin - 01/09/20 08:21 PM

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2019/01/25/op...be-cheaper.html

https://openinsulin.org/

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/...eir-own-insulin
Posted by: Greger

Re: Insulin - 01/11/20 07:54 PM

Quote:
I wouldn't bet the farm on the purity.


So probably the best bet is to socialize medicine so no one goes without insulin or has to rely on the black market to afford it.

I've been in insulin heaven since I went on Medicare. I use the good sh*t now, the stuff I could never afford before. And I pay next to nothing for it. That's how it should be for everyone.

Medicare for all is the simple and elegant solution to all our healthcare woes.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Insulin - 01/11/20 08:27 PM

The difficult part is making the GMO bacteria or yeast. Once you have that, you can grow tons of it in a big stainless steel vat. You just have to make sure it is all sterile so you just grow the critter you want. Kind of like brewing beer. Then you get to do the other hard part, which is extracting and purifying the insulin. That bacteria or yeast doesn't just make insulin. It has to grow and multiply to fill the vat. What you end up with is a vat full of poop with a lot of insulin in it.

Fortunately for the brewing industry, we can drink yeast poop all day without harm. Diabetics can't inject the raw stuff.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Insulin - 01/11/20 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all


Fortunately for the brewing industry, we can drink yeast poop all day without harm. Diabetics can't inject the raw stuff.


Been reading a little Vonnegut lately? LOL