President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic

Posted by: pdx rick

President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/05/18 10:28 PM


The New York Times published a stunning op-ed on Wednesday, written by an anonymous, senior official in President Donald Trump‘s White House.

Calling the publication of an anonymous op-ed a “rare step” in their preamble, the Times notes the story was being published at the request of the author, and offers “an important perspective.”

The official writes:

Quote:
The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 12:11 AM

And thank god they are! It would be a lot worse (like WW III worse) if they weren't. I think the big question is: Is anybody on Trump's staff (other than his kids) NOT doing this?

The question is important because if they are unanimous, an Amendment 25 action could be performed. I suspect such a thing would include a psychiatric commitment for Trump.
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 12:18 AM

What part of President Donald (Traitor, Un-indicted co-conspirator, off the rails) Trump's administration is about to hit the fan...

hitsfan

If the anonymous Op-Ed author were truly concerned about the well being of the United States, our democracy, and the institution of the Presidency why is the coward not advocating for a 25th amendment resolution at the least or impeachment at the worst?

As it stands right now, we have a shadow government, something akin to a Star Chamber. Every Officer of the government has sworn an oath to uphold, protect and defend the constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic. Well?


even if the usage is contrived, I like that emote.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 02:50 AM


I think that Vice President "Lodestar" Pence wrote the Op-Ed. smile

Lodestar is a very, very uncommon word and it appears in the Op-Ed. In a speech Vice President Mike Pence made to the United Nations in 2017, saying that the NGO “must again be our lodestar, our ideal, and our aspiration.” Hmm
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 04:31 AM


Mike Pence = Veep throat

smile
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 04:37 AM

I think you should attribute that, but you are probably right.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 01:40 PM


Odds on who did it per MyBookie.com

Vice President Pence (2-to-3), Education Secretary Betsy Devos (2-to-1), Secretary of State Mike Pompeo (4-to-1), Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin (4-to-1), chief of staff John F. Kelly (4-to-1), Defense Secretary Jim Mattis (5-to-1), Attorney General Jeff Sessions (5-to-1), Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke (6-to-1), Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue (6-to-1), Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross (7-to-1) Labor Secretary Alex Acosta (7-to-1), HHS Secretary Alex Azar (8-to-1), HUD Secretary Ben Carson (8-to-1), VA Secretary Robert Wilkie (8-to-1), Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen (10-to-1), Ivanka Trump (12-to-1) and Jared Kushner (12-to-1).
Posted by: rporter314

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 03:02 PM

Of that listing I would say only Sec Mattis and CoS Kelley would have the understanding of the deep danger we are in and would actually try to represent the ideals of the Constitution. A close second is Sec Nielsen. I think she understands the gravity of the situation (even if Sen Graham doesn't) and may possibly conspire with Mattis and Kelley to consider 25.

AG Sessions, even though, attacked daily would never be disloyal regardless of the mental state of Mr Trump.

VP Pence sold his soul for the agenda above all else, so why would he care? I think Sec Pompeo falls into this category.

The rest are Trump tools and would never consider being disloyal.

I think one can see the underlying motif here. Fealty to Mr Trump or to uphold the Constitution and its ideals.

I argued long ago 25 would not be viable. I have long argued impeachment won't work. The only option left is to vote him out. Sen Graham thinks he will win 2020. I think we have a lot of delusional folks running government. The sad fact is, unless the Democrats can find a persuasive message, there is a real possibility Mr Trump would win 2020.
Posted by: logtroll

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 03:38 PM

Originally Posted By: rporter314
Of that listing I would say only Sec Mattis and CoS Kelley would have the understanding of the deep danger we are in and would actually try to represent the ideals of the Constitution.

I'm sure Melania has read, and been tested on, the Constitution (as an immigrant) and she lives with the guy (sometimes) so she would have a deep understanding of his "crazy". The odds should be quite high on her.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/06/18 07:14 PM

something overlooked is the possibility there were more than one author writing under the synonym "anonymous".

Consider the reference to a group whispering 25. Certainly they would know who the author is and in fact they may all be the author.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/07/18 02:24 AM

Originally Posted By: rporter314
something overlooked is the possibility there were more than one author writing under the synonym "anonymous".

Consider the reference to a group whispering 25. Certainly they would know who the author is and in fact they may all be the author.

The Op-ed said it was a group of people keeping Fatboy in check. It's even in the title of the piece:

Quote:
I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration


Hmm
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/07/18 02:41 AM

Blaming it on Pence would be wise, since he is the only Trump administration figure that Trump can't fire! "Lodestar" may be an attempt to do that, without (or possibly with) Pence's knowledge. I predict we will find out after it's all over and Trump is gone.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/07/18 02:27 PM

Here's why the 25th Amendment remedy was never used: "whenever the Vice President and..." as long as Pence is not on board, it's never going anywhere. I think the NYT Op-Ed was a message to Pence, and I think the use of the word "lodestar" was a signal that he would have the backing of the Cabinet.

I tend to agree with those that say the constitutional crisis is not the use of the 25th Amendment, but the FAILURE to use it. The 25th Amendment is the appropriate constitutional method to end the nightmare. The crisis is already here. What we're looking for is the solution.

My greatest concern is that it is already too late. Enough Senators have provided cover for Trump for their own craven reasons, and the Supreme Court is already stacked against rational application of the Constitution, that the constitutional failsafe has been rendered ineffective. The best we can hope for is an absolute Republican rout in November to check Trump's excesses, but, no matter what, there will be pain and scars. My hope is that we survive.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/07/18 03:26 PM

In other words the message to VP Pence is "you can be president, if you begin the 25 process". I suspect while probably tantalizing to VP Pence, he is by the book kind of guy. God, conservatism, party in that order ... I don;t know where Constitution or country fit .

2018 & 2020 are the only viable solutions to the insanity occupying the WH.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/07/18 07:20 PM

Either more evidence against Pence, or yet more evidence of a frame-job: The NYTimes article author talks about morality. Pence is probably the only person who even has any concern about morality in the whole place. He may not be the smartest guy to fall off the turnip truck into high office, but he does have a sense of morality.

Despite his misguiding lodestar, you almost have to feel sorry for the guy. He's a natural scapegoat here. He may have done a few stupid things, but I predict he will end up getting the Spiro Agnew treatment so Republicans can keep control of the Presidency. Of course, maybe this IS the start of the Spiro Agnew treatment?
Posted by: jgw

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/07/18 08:29 PM

As far as I can tell this is just another honest description of White House Mayhem. There have now been, at least, 3 books on the subject and now this as well. They all agree with each other and the only thing that changes are the offenses committed. What we seem to be seeing is a growing mass of evidence.

I also believe that Mueller has the goods. I also believe that Jackass has been bought and paid for by the Russians and Mueller is going to nail him for it. My only question about it all is what is the 'base' going to behave when they find out that they have been supporting a traitor to the nation? I suspect we also know how the craven supporting cast of Republicans will do. They will deny everything and throw their great leader under the bus. I just hope, if that happens that the voting public remembers and fires the entire lot of them. If the Dems take 2018 I also believe you will see them start their denials, beginning with Jackass.

I suspect the bullied like nothing better than seeing the bully go down in defeat.

I remember, years ago, when my son was a freshman in high school. He was getting bullied and he asked me about it. I told him that he had two choices. I could goto the school and have them put and end to it. The second choice was based on the simple fact that bullies hate the bullied to actually fight back and they, normally, think twice when they do. So, the second choice was to fight back.

The next day one of my daughters came back from school. She was going to the same high school. She said she walked down to her locker and found my son, crying his eyes out and yelling, whilst slamming a locker door repeatably on the big bully. I have no idea how he got him into the locker. My daughter also told me it took two teachers to get him to stop yet the school did nothing. I should also add that that incident followed him through high school. Everybody knew not to mess with him because he went nuts and could do harm. Nobody ever messed with him again.

Its REALLY time for the Dems to fight back!
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/08/18 03:03 AM

Quote:
Its REALLY time for the Dems to fight back!

They need some place to stand, in order to fight: By that I mean they need more than posting nice speeches on YouTube. If the voters want that, they have to give the Democrats at least one House of Congress. Otherwise the Republicans can just steamroller anything they do.

Give them a House majority and you will see wall-to-wall subpoenas and investigations that get people exposed and indicted, not just covering up crimes.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/08/18 06:56 PM

Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
...Enough Senators have provided cover for Trump for their own craven reasons...

The Russians hacked both the DNC and the RNC. Only the DNC's emails were released. The RNC's emails are being used to blackmail Republicans which is the "craven reason" why they will not speak-up. Hmm
Posted by: jgw

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/08/18 07:01 PM

How about this place:

These are some of the things the Republicans have done (I am against all of them)
Maybe that is too negative?

How about:
restore environmental regulation
restore rule of law
restore congressional oversite
study to fix our healthcare - pick the best that work and then cherry pick from them all

Oh, and claim the Democrats are REALLY the party of financial responsibility and then explain why the Dems are and the Republicans simply do not care, ie. Trump claimed to be the master of debt - his plan is not to pay (really!)
Point out all the times the Dems take over from the Republicans and has had to fix what the Republicans left and remind that in 2018 the Republicans were responsible for nation losing 2.6 million jobs in 2008, etc
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/08/18 11:11 PM

Originally Posted By: jgw
Oh, and claim the Democrats are REALLY the party of financial responsibility and then explain why the Dems are and the Republicans simply do not care, ie. Trump claimed to be the master of debt - his plan is not to pay (really!)
Point out all the times the Dems take over from the Republicans and has had to fix what the Republicans left and remind that in 2018 the Republicans were responsible for nation losing 2.6 million jobs in 2008, etc

Just hit those R's with the FACT that every Republican Administration for the past 110 years has had a recession. Shuts those R-aholes up every time. Hmm
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/09/18 04:05 PM

The rot at the top: Mike Pence on Face the Nation. What Pence has done is prove my point. Pence is an empty suit. Lie piled on lie. The question is: is he just a better liar than Trump?
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/09/18 04:32 PM




MICE

Money
Ideology
Compromise
Ego

These are the four characteristics that the KGB look for in recruiting an asset. The KGB only needs one of the four. Trump is three of four.

Donald J Trump = Russian asset since 1984

h/t my friend James. smile
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/09/18 05:35 PM

The amazing thing is how little money they actually have to spend to recruit most of their assets and agents in the US. From everything I have read, it's almost always less than $50K per year. Sometimes a lot less. Essentially, beer money!

Manafort is the exception that proves the rule.
Posted by: Jim D (FreeThinker)

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/09/18 10:55 PM

In spite of #45 (I can not say or type his name) being a raving lunatic is no one else concerned that a cabal exists in the administration that is NOT letting an elected president do his job? That that situation exists is, or should be, of extremely high concern. These are unelected people doing the work of the office of president without any oversight and sets a dangerous precedent.

The whole situation scares the crap out of me.
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/09/18 11:34 PM

Page 1, this very thread?
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/10/18 03:21 AM

Of course he is not doing the job he was elected for: The man is totally incompetent. That means there are many aspects of his job that he has no clue even exist. If responsible underlings are getting those things done, or getting bad or illegal things stopped, that's a good thing.

Every President has underlings. They probably carry out 95% of the job. The big difference here is that most Presidents understand what those things are, and could step in and do them.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/10/18 02:06 PM

always go to the fundamentals

competency :: "The combination of observable and measurable knowledge, skills, abilities and personal attributes that contribute to enhanced employee performance and ultimately result in organizational success. "

that is one definition used by one organization. I think it suggests there is no simple easy definition for competency but is a complex algorithm used to measure success.

I'll let the reader decide whether Mr Trump has demonstrated any competence in his current reality show.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/10/18 05:21 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
If responsible underlings are getting those things done, or getting bad or illegal things stopped, that's a good thing.
Except, as Obama and others have pointed out, when 90% of what they are doing is bad or illegal things. The Gary Cohn example is a good one: he removed a letter or EO from the President's desk... but somebody else put it there. When an executive is unaware of what is going on and has disloyal underlings they can, as apparently also occurred with Reagan (some have even called it "the Reagan protocol"), put things in front of him to further their agenda knowing he would not get into the nuts and bolts of it, or maybe even read it. What we then have is government by fiat - which is where the list of judicial appointees came from. Remember that the Bush administration explicitly refused to consider "competence" American Bar Association competence ratings.

The current administration has made it official (while explicitly lying about it, at the same time!):
Quote:
“Like previous administrations,” Mr. McGahn wrote, “we will release information regarding each nominee in a manner that provides equal access to all interested groups. But we do not intend to give any professional organizations special access to our nominees.”
The Federalist Society, of course, is not a "professional organization".
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/10/18 08:31 PM

Yes, I agree somewhat. But most people on his staff are not outright insane, with the possible exceptions of Miller and Bolton. They don't want to start World War III, or bring on the Rapture. They just want to do their nefarious small deeds that serve their interests. Trump has the ability to do much more harm.

On the other hand, maybe they are preventing him from doing stuff that would get him impeached immediately.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/11/18 02:02 AM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Yes, I agree somewhat. But most people on his staff are not outright insane, with the possible exceptions of Miller and Bolton. They don't want to start World War III, or bring on the Rapture. They just want to do their nefarious small deeds that serve their interests. Trump has the ability to do much more harm.

On the other hand, maybe they are preventing him from doing stuff that would get him impeached immediately.


Most aren't outright insane now that Steve Bannon is gone, yes?
Bannon was bat droppings koo koo.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/11/18 07:48 PM

Miller and Bolton are essentially anarchists. Back in the 30's they would have been throwing bombs.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/11/18 09:23 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Miller and Bolton are essentially anarchists. Back in the 30's they would have been throwing bombs.

I'm not certain you know what an anarchist is...
Posted by: Greger

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/11/18 10:53 PM

Definition of anarchist
1 : a person who rebels against any authority, established order, or ruling power
2 : a person who believes in, advocates, or promotes anarchism or anarchy; especially : one who uses violent means to overthrow the established order
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: President Petty and Ineffective - a danger to the Republic - 09/11/18 11:54 PM

Anarchism

Bannon and Miller seem to be trying to impose their will and political ideology on people by fear and state oppression. That doesn't dovetail with anarchism (as I understand it).