What is a far leftist, anyway?

Posted by: logtroll

What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/19/19 05:00 PM

Woody Guthrie? Howard Zinn?
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/19/19 05:57 PM

I appreciate the thread, my friend. But, to give it a little more context, are we talking historically? Or contemporarily? Eugene Debs or AOC? Marx or Ike? Inquiring minds, and all that.
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/19/19 06:23 PM

I meant it to be wide open. Righties these days are quite fond of using "far-leftist" as meaning some scary, dangerous, anti-American apocalyptic EVIL cult.

I'd bet most of us here don't think there is much in the way of far leftism at play today.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/19/19 06:25 PM

It all depends on who is holding the Dymo Labelmaker gun.

Factually, the "far Left" today consists of the US Green Party, the Antifa bunch, the college campus SJW's and the standard far Left liberal Dems like AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.

I'd hazard the guess that the Antifa crowd occupy the furthest outpost as evidenced by their black and red pair of flags. The BLACK represents far Left anarchy and the red represents communism.
That part's not a guess, that comes straight from Antifaschistische Aktion.

Bernie probably occupies the border between the far Left and the traditional Left and I use that loosely because Sanders really is NOT all that far Left if you look at his policies and compare to actual socialism. That's because Mr. Sanders isn't really a socialist anymore, just a good liberal Democrat from the old school.

Now, if you were to ask one of today's Republicans, everyone who isn't Tulsi or Joe Biden is far Left and probably a secret Communist, and that's due to the Republican Party moving so far to the Right that even Eisenhower is attacked as a communist sympathizer.
The Party of Trump is attempting to move further to the Right than even the Birch Society.

No wonder they think all Democrats are secret commies.
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 12:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
It all depends on who is holding the Dymo Labelmaker gun.

Factually, the "far Left" today consists of the US Green Party, the Antifa bunch, the college campus SJW's and the standard far Left liberal Dems like AOC, Ilhan Omar, etc.

I'd hazard the guess that the Antifa crowd occupy the furthest outpost as evidenced by their black and red pair of flags. The BLACK represents far Left anarchy and the red represents communism.
That part's not a guess, that comes straight from Antifaschistische Aktion.

Bernie probably occupies the border between the far Left and the traditional Left and I use that loosely because Sanders really is NOT all that far Left if you look at his policies and compare to actual socialism. That's because Mr. Sanders isn't really a socialist anymore, just a good liberal Democrat from the old school.

Now, if you were to ask one of today's Republicans, everyone who isn't Tulsi or Joe Biden is far Left and probably a secret Communist, and that's due to the Republican Party moving so far to the Right that even Eisenhower is attacked as a communist sympathizer.
The Party of Trump is attempting to move further to the Right than even the Birch Society.

No wonder they think all Democrats are secret commies.



I agree it is a matter of personal perspectives. I probably view someone far left being from Georgia than someone from the Northeast or West Coast would view them more mainstream or perhaps center to center left politically. The same for the far right, it's definition could be entirely regional on how one qualifies or views those who in their perspective are far right.

Now I would say IKE and Bill Clinton were centrist. Two of my favorite presidents although I was too young to vote for IKE and never voted for Bill backing Ross Perot both times. I also hold JFK in high esteem along with Reagan who I would place center right. Those four are my top four presidents in my lifetime.

Yes, I do consider Sanders and Warren to be far left, I think most from Georgia, even Democrats from Georgia do also. You can see that in the latest WSB/Landmark poll which has Biden at 41%, Warren at 17% and Sanders at 8% among Georgia Democrats.

http://landmarkcommunications.net/wsb-tv...mary-sept-21st/

This shows me that there is a disconnect between regions as to what is more or less the center to center left and what is far left. Even among Democrats. Now if you look at the west coast, Warren is far ahead of Biden, I'd say even with or slightly ahead of Biden in the Northeast, trailing in the South, the Midwest and most plain states.

How one views far left or far right for that matter may very well depend on which region of the country you're from.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 01:48 AM

If, on one side of the political spectrum you have hierarchy and the other you have egalitarianism, then wouldn’t those being the most active towards achieving these ideological goals represent the outer edges?
Communism, unlike socialism, is down with revolutionary change so I would guess they would represent more extreme measures to achieve their objectives, not necessarily more extreme outcomes.
Guess it depends on what your referring to as “far”?

Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 02:20 AM

Even I think Sanders is pretty far left. It doesn't bother me because I'm also pretty far left. Warren is a compromise, she's not a lefty by any means but she is a progressive. If she does a good job it will help set the stage for a genuine lefty to be elected. AOC will be old enough to run when Liz finishes up her two terms. Now there's a genuine lefty for you!

I imagine the lefties probably poll better in some districts than others even within Georgia, Atlanta and Athens come to mind, maybe some coastal areas? I don't know your state very well, it's just too far up north for me to pay much attention to it. I do know yall pissed off the colored girls in 2018 and 30% of the population of Georgia is black.
Were 30% of those polled black? How do black voters feel about Biden? Will they choose him over Warren because Obama? Rhetorical questions, I'm just throwing out a few ideas that might effect the 2020 primaries.

And these radical right and radical left swings you speak of? Which presidents do you label radical left? Obama surely, even though he tried his best to work across the aisle they weren't having none of it. Not Clinton because you liked him(so did I, by the way, but he's never been popular here.) How bout the Bushes? Radical Right? Carter you didn't mention. He's practically a communist what with all that socialist habitat for humanity stuff so he's in the radical leftist column, 'magine that! A Georgia commie! Bet yall are ashamed of him!
And there was LBJ, a Texan...gave equal rights to black people. Another radical leftist!! Why is it the most radical leftists all come from the south? Everybody else was Republicans, Ford, Nixon, uh...you were okay with Kennedy, a yankee...are you sure you're a southerner?

Anyway there don't seem to be all that many swings to the left but there's a whole handful of swings to the right...not at all the back and forth you seem to be describing.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 02:30 AM

Quote:
Guess it depends on what your referring to as “far”?


His "far" seems to be about half a step from the terrified center who are afraid to step left or right. Afraid to take a stand, afraid to make a move. Afraid of anyone who does. Any move in any direction is radical. Don't make waves, don't upset the applecart, just don't do anything!

Jeeze here I go again....I'm not a hateful man Pero, yet I go after you and the Senator like a hungry alligator. I just don't know what gets into me.
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 11:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Even I think Sanders is pretty far left. It doesn't bother me because I'm also pretty far left. Warren is a compromise, she's not a lefty by any means but she is a progressive. If she does a good job it will help set the stage for a genuine lefty to be elected. AOC will be old enough to run when Liz finishes up her two terms. Now there's a genuine lefty for you!

I imagine the lefties probably poll better in some districts than others even within Georgia, Atlanta and Athens come to mind, maybe some coastal areas? I don't know your state very well, it's just too far up north for me to pay much attention to it. I do know yall pissed off the colored girls in 2018 and 30% of the population of Georgia is black.
Were 30% of those polled black? How do black voters feel about Biden? Will they choose him over Warren because Obama? Rhetorical questions, I'm just throwing out a few ideas that might effect the 2020 primaries.

And these radical right and radical left swings you speak of? Which presidents do you label radical left? Obama surely, even though he tried his best to work across the aisle they weren't having none of it. Not Clinton because you liked him(so did I, by the way, but he's never been popular here.) How bout the Bushes? Radical Right? Carter you didn't mention. He's practically a communist what with all that socialist habitat for humanity stuff so he's in the radical leftist column, 'magine that! A Georgia commie! Bet yall are ashamed of him!
And there was LBJ, a Texan...gave equal rights to black people. Another radical leftist!! Why is it the most radical leftists all come from the south? Everybody else was Republicans, Ford, Nixon, uh...you were okay with Kennedy, a yankee...are you sure you're a southerner?

Anyway there don't seem to be all that many swings to the left but there's a whole handful of swings to the right...not at all the back and forth you seem to be describing.


Biden vs. Warren among Georgia's blacks: Biden 38.7%, Warren 19.1%, Sanders 8.3%. Biden gets 49% outside the Atlanta metro area and 36% within. Warren gains 5 points going within the Atlanta metro area vs. outside of it.

http://landmarkcommunications.net/wsb-tv...mary-sept-21st/

I never considered Obama far left, center left yes. Both Bush's center right, Jimmy, I liked, a native son. Voted for him twice. But as time went by his presidency looked worse and worse compared to others. Jimmy in my opinion today was a great governor, poor president.

I'm not as ideological as you apparently. Siding with the Democrats on some issues, with Republicans on others. Most issues are irrelevant to me. I don't care about the wall one way or the other. Which bathroom transgenders use, I don't care. I'm against illegal immigration, but whether one is for it or against it isn't a factor in my deciding who to vote for. Now as you would imagine, I'm very pro second amendment, having been born and raised on a farm and having my own .410 at the age of twelve and going hunting back in our woods alone at the same age. Going into town to the Western Auto and buying shells for it, riding my bike by the way with no questions asked.

Prior to voting I always ask myself the question would so and so candidate leave this country or what ever office they're seeking better off or worst off when they left that office then when they first entered. In 2016 the answer was both major party candidates would do more harm, I voted against them and harm.

Let me put it this way, I've been comfortable with every president in my lifetime being president. Trump I'm not and if Warren or Sanders became president, I wouldn't be comfortable with them either. So in my book of comfortability, those two are on the same page as Trump.
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 11:36 AM

What is a far Leftist? in no particular order.

Dr. Martin Luther King - advocated for equal treatment under the law, changed the fabric of a nation.

Abraham Lincoln - changed the social fabric of a nation.

The Suffragists and Suffragettes - Advocated for voting rights and equal treatment, changed the fabric of a nation.

The Founding Fathers - Advocated for equal treatment under the law, did not get it - changed the fabric of an entire society.

Starting to notice a trend here...

I believe, they were the leftists of their day; even if they were Republican or Conservatives.
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 12:24 PM

Do we have any national heroes that were far to the right?
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 12:42 PM

It seems to me that the term “far-leftism” is a strawboogeyman whose main purpose is to stimulate the amygdalae of so-called conservatives.

Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 03:01 PM

This looks difficult to answer as there is no consensus of what is left.
The break with Fuedalism and monarchy during the French Revolution is a good example of attempting a more horizontal alignment of society.
Ditto the October Revolution, Spanish Civil war between monarchists, Catholics monarchist for hierarchy and anarchists, Republicans and marxists on the other.
For me it’s a matter of which ordering you prefer. Some are content with class hierarchy some prefer solidarity.
Today’s Neoliberals very much prefer market solutions over direct government involvement. Cool with social equality, much the opposite on economics and class.
Conservatives seems to have come out of the closet and shown themselves to be the racists they were suspected of being. In favor of racial and economic hierarchies with a veneer of values and traditions masking the core.
Labor unions should be more left but are often headed by reactionary conservatives. Some, not all.
Libertarians are the hippies of conservatives. Libertarianism seems to be a stepping stone to many ethnofascists.
Anarchists, socialists, and communists have been mainly absent from the scene since the Purges of the 50’s and 70’s and are only now starting to get it together but still weak politically though their ideas have broad general support.
Far left? Does it really exist in the states? Kinda reminds me of the ‘what left’ thread from several months ago.
If you think Warrens left I’d say your wrong. She’s championing some left proposals so that’s cool.
Sanders is running a left campaign and his politics are mild left.
Trump is the fascists that republicans were suspected to be.


Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 03:46 PM

Quote:
Far left? Does it really exist in the states?


Nope. If it did we'd be the ones stockpiling weapons.
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 04:39 PM

Nearest fringe group of any kind that I can think of that would quality as far-leftists would be antifa - and I think their sole issue to to challenge far-right "fascists" with physical confrontation and sometimes violence. Funny thing is that they would go away if their were no fascists to confront. The fascists they oppose will only go away if they lose their racist white nationalist ideologies.

In any case, there is no active leftist political faction that antifa is connected with (that I know of).
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista


Let me put it this way, I've been comfortable with every president in my lifetime being president. Trump I'm not and if Warren or Sanders became president, I wouldn't be comfortable with them either. So in my book of comfortability, those two are on the same page as Trump.



How odd, because for me...and you and I are almost in the same age group, a Warren presidency feels like it would almost put us back to where we were around the time of the late New Deal era. I grew up in the tail end of that, so that is why I like Warren.

For the record I view the New Deal Era as the period between 1932 and 1980, because a lot of the gains and stability we encountered lasted until 1980, when the Right began its Powell Memo driven systematic dismantling of it.

Suddenly I began to hear talk of how evil the government was, how incompetent...who were these radical sounding people? Reagan was an actor...what the Hell was he doing telling us the government sucked so badly? After all, he had no problem destroying the lives of thousands when he was president of the Screen Actors Guild, sitting up there in front of HUAC.

Sure, Communism was a rotten system, but when those people JOINED, it was on the heels of a total COLLAPSE of capitalism, for God's sakes.
It was the Great Depression and almost a THIRD of the workforce had lost everything they had!

They didn't want to destroy America, they thought a new idea might help them, that's all...and a lot of these people left Communism behind when they observed the Cold War anyway.

Look at Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, for instance. Those two dabbled in the Communist ideology during the Great Depression. Did they not become a couple of the biggest patriots in the television industry at the time?
I never even saw a HINT of any "communist indoctrination" coming from Desilu Productions, unless one counts "Star Trek" as indoctrination.

Nope sorry...from where I sit this whole era feels like a repeat of the 1950's Red Scare period all over again.
It was a rotten thing to do back then, and it's a rotten thing to do now.

PS: It's almost too bad that chickenhawk John Wayne did NOT haul off and punch Dalton Trumbo when Trumbo dared him to.
It might have ended the entire nasty piece of business right then.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 04:47 PM

Originally Posted By: logtroll
Nearest fringe group of any kind that I can think of that would quality as far-leftists would be antifa - and I think their sole issue to to challenge far-right "fascists" with physical confrontation and sometimes violence. Funny thing is that they would go away if their were no fascists to confront. The fascists they oppose will only go away if they lose their racist white nationalist ideologies.

In any case, there is no active leftist political faction that antifa is connected with (that I know of).


And truth be told, Antifa is probably the best recruiting tool the far Right could have ever dreamed of. I view these pitched street battles between the two groups as Theater of the Absurd.
Both groups are pathetic and have not accomplished anything, except to spread hate and discontent around.

And neither group has the ability to practice leadership anyway, which makes it even more absurd.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: logtroll
Do we have any national heroes that were far to the right?


Not FAR Right, no.
Eisenhower was of course part of the racism of the time but it was an institutionalized bit of business back then, so no one ever even considered the human tragedy of things like Operation Wetback.
And I honestly do not believe a lot of people outside the Old Deep South realized just how bad treatment of blacks was down there unless they visited.

But all that aside, I think Eisenhower was one of the good conservative leaders, and as much as Goldwater alarmed and irritated me, it's clear that he had a good heart as well.

No, I do not believe in FAR anything, far Right or far Left.
We need to make American society more thoughtful, more mindful, more educated and we need to remake a kinder and more generous internal culture, one which nurtures and protects, and invests in future generations.
But most of all, we must restore stability, upward mobility, statecraft, reinvestment in ourselves.
If we do that, a lot of our other issues will gradually retreat in scale, because most of our most troubling issues are driven largely by despair.

Fringe ideologies tend to EXPLOIT that sense of despair.
That is not the way to transform any society.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Far left? Does it really exist in the states?


Nope. If it did we'd be the ones stockpiling weapons.



BINGO!
I have to agree with that observation wholeheartedly!

If, say perhaps, the Weather Underground decided to branch off and away from their largely anti-Vietnam stance and go off into other causes. If the Students for a Democratic Society wanted to diversify, if the Symbionese Liberation Army wanted to enhance their credibility...yes I think we would wind up seeing something of a negative reaction.

The thing is, the far Left only winds up with the opportunity to DO that when the oligarchs become so sloppy that even their own praetors turn on them. Things have to get pretty bad for the old guard to turn that cynical.

I like to think that the ordinary Left would much rather SELL their ideas and watch them catch fire in people's hearts, rather than engage in some kind of "war".
Seeing families teaching their kids these values is what stirs the heart of a liberal.

Be kind and open to people who look different, or who come from other cultures and racial backgrounds. Be generous and share with the less fortunate, be a good steward of our Earth. Be real about equality with women and the gay community. Be willing to pursue diplomacy rather than militaristic solutions to all issues.
Do all one can to foster education in our communities.


Stuff like that. Seeing that sort of thing take hold makes a liberal feel patriotic.
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 07:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: perotista


Let me put it this way, I've been comfortable with every president in my lifetime being president. Trump I'm not and if Warren or Sanders became president, I wouldn't be comfortable with them either. So in my book of comfortability, those two are on the same page as Trump.



How odd, because for me...and you and I are almost in the same age group, a Warren presidency feels like it would almost put us back to where we were around the time of the late New Deal era. I grew up in the tail end of that, so that is why I like Warren.

For the record I view the New Deal Era as the period between 1932 and 1980, because a lot of the gains and stability we encountered lasted until 1980, when the Right began its Powell Memo driven systematic dismantling of it.

Suddenly I began to hear talk of how evil the government was, how incompetent...who were these radical sounding people? Reagan was an actor...what the Hell was he doing telling us the government sucked so badly? After all, he had no problem destroying the lives of thousands when he was president of the Screen Actors Guild, sitting up there in front of HUAC.

Sure, Communism was a rotten system, but when those people JOINED, it was on the heels of a total COLLAPSE of capitalism, for God's sakes.
It was the Great Depression and almost a THIRD of the workforce had lost everything they had!

They didn't want to destroy America, they thought a new idea might help them, that's all...and a lot of these people left Communism behind when they observed the Cold War anyway.

Look at Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz, for instance. Those two dabbled in the Communist ideology during the Great Depression. Did they not become a couple of the biggest patriots in the television industry at the time?
I never even saw a HINT of any "communist indoctrination" coming from Desilu Productions, unless one counts "Star Trek" as indoctrination.

Nope sorry...from where I sit this whole era feels like a repeat of the 1950's Red Scare period all over again.
It was a rotten thing to do back then, and it's a rotten thing to do now.

PS: It's almost too bad that chickenhawk John Wayne did NOT haul off and punch Dalton Trumbo when Trumbo dared him to.
It might have ended the entire nasty piece of business right then.


Close to the same age, very possible. But I would wager our experiences differ quite a lot. I was born and raised on a farm. Then drafted into the Army which I made a career out of retiring from active duty after 21 years. Then spent my next 26 years working for the Army as a Department of the Army Civilian. That was sort of a sheltered life as it kept me away from civilians. Almost all my friends these days are retired military or worked for the military in some sense.

I still live in the country with a bunch of retired military living around me, although its not a farm anymore. I have very few hot button issues, basically three. Finding a candidate that is pro defense, one who is pro 2nd Amendment and one who just might do something about our national debt. On this last one, both major parties are utter failures, both living only for today or until the next election not giving a darn about any future generation.

Looking at the discussions, current topics, you won't see me on most of them. I don't care about the public option, medicare for all, whether or not Trump is impeached, the auto industry, unions and strikes, Trump, Biden and the Ukraine. Trump's tax returns, far as I'm concern whether he releases them or not is up to him. I'll say that much, then let the subject be.

Now the hyper partisanship and polarization bothers me a lot as I stated from time to time. It has turned me against both major parties as I assume with the growth in the number of independents, swing voters from 30 to 40% it has turned them off also.

What I'm looking for in 2020 is someone who can provide steady, reliable leadership along fixing some of our existing problems. Not someone who will push a bunch of new programs while ignoring the problems we already have.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 09:56 PM

I think it was King who said you can’t have social justice without economic justice. Liberals tend to ignore the latter and focus on the former. Or at least that’s been my observations since the eighties.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 11:03 PM

Quote:
Be kind and open to people who look different, or who come from other cultures and racial backgrounds. Be generous and share with the less fortunate, be a good steward of our Earth. Be real about equality with women and the gay community. Be willing to pursue diplomacy rather than militaristic solutions to all issues.


Very Sermon-On-The-Mount! Seems like the struggle between left and right is very informed by Matthew 25. All of these so-called Christians on the right should read it again, and see what Jesus had to say about getting into heaven.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/20/19 11:16 PM

A lot of this "far" labeling is really because of how we feel about the person of interest. Humans almost always feel first, and then construct a justification for their feelings. Easy example: The way Trump felt about Obama was obvious right from Obama's first campaign effort. So he had to construct all sorts of reasons why everything connected with Obama is evil and everything Obama did must be undone. ACA is almost exactly RomneyCare, but since Obama signed it (not wrote it!) it must be bad. Even if many of the ideas in it were from The Heritage Foundation.

Same thing with antifa: Those communist connotations probably come from Germany, where communism and anarchism is more popular. In the US, most antifa are just anti fascist: In the same sense that US patriots and soldiers were in WW II! They want all the fascists to go crawl back under the rocks they came out from. I am actually anti-fascist, and I bet most of you are too.
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/21/19 12:19 AM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
A lot of this "far" labeling is really because of how we feel about the person of interest. Humans almost always feel first, and then construct a justification for their feelings. Easy example: The way Trump felt about Obama was obvious right from Obama's first campaign effort. So he had to construct all sorts of reasons why everything connected with Obama is evil and everything Obama did must be undone. ACA is almost exactly RomneyCare, but since Obama signed it (not wrote it!) it must be bad. Even if many of the ideas in it were from The Heritage Foundation.

Same thing with antifa: Those communist connotations probably come from Germany, where communism and anarchism is more popular. In the US, most antifa are just anti fascist: In the same sense that US patriots and soldiers were in WW II! They want all the fascists to go crawl back under the rocks they came out from. I am actually anti-fascist, and I bet most of you are too.


There was one big difference, the majority of the people of Massachusetts were in favor of Romneycare. The majority of all Americans opposed Obamacare. That in itself made it an easy target for the GOP take over of the house in 2010.

Romneycare was probably a good thing for Obama, Romneycare basically stop Romney from using Obamacare as a campaign issue in 2012. Of course Obama was more liked and had a higher favorable rating than Romney by Americans as a whole. Whether or not one agreed with Obama's policies he was a likable man. At least in my view.

I never voted for Obama, but thought he was a good president. I voted for McCain than third party in 2012. I never trusted Romney as he changed his stripes, his political views to run for the presidency as a Republican. Just like Trump has done. Another big difference there though, is Trump has switched parties eight times to Romney's none.

Labeling someone far left or far right is a personal perspective. How the one doing the labeling feels or thinks about the individual he is labeling. It's also a regional one as I pointed out earlier.

There's no doubt folks from the Northeast and West Coast are a heck of a lot more liberal than those from the south, midwest and plain states. They view someone more mainstream or center to center left politically while someone from the south, midwest and plain states would view them far left. Generally I mean, on average. The reverse is true also as to far right.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/21/19 03:43 PM

Quote:
I voted for McCain


McCain and that lady From Alaska whose name I will not type. Odd choice for someone who claims to be a Centrist. He mighta somehow been labeled a "Maverick" but she was about as hard right as anybody on the planet.

The far right was behind them all the way. And so were you.

Oddly Romney is a centrist. But you didn't trust him because he was a radical centrist I guess? Liable to move a tiny bit in either direction when you want government to remain absolutely neutral on all subjects except for funding endless war.

I really don't care who you vote for or why or whether you vote at all, that's your choice and none of my business. But you keep siding with the hard right, demonizing most Democrats, voting hard right and claiming somehow to be a Centrist.

I just don't see it.
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/21/19 09:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I voted for McCain


McCain and that lady From Alaska whose name I will not type. Odd choice for someone who claims to be a Centrist. He mighta somehow been labeled a "Maverick" but she was about as hard right as anybody on the planet.

The far right was behind them all the way. And so were you.

Oddly Romney is a centrist. But you didn't trust him because he was a radical centrist I guess? Liable to move a tiny bit in either direction when you want government to remain absolutely neutral on all subjects except for funding endless war.

I really don't care who you vote for or why or whether you vote at all, that's your choice and none of my business. But you keep siding with the hard right, demonizing most Democrats, voting hard right and claiming somehow to be a Centrist.

I just don't see it.



It's all a matter of personal perspectives. I never considered McCain to be far right, I didn't consider Obama to be far left. Center right and center left, sure. I like McCain because he didn't always put his political party first and foremost above country as almost all other politicians and elected officials do.

I never claimed to be a centrist, depending on the issue I'll back the democrats sometimes, I'll back the GOP other times, but on quite a lot of issues, I just don't give an owls hoot.

If you want to label me as a hard core rightist, I'm fine with that. There is another site I've been labeled both hard core rightist and a hard core leftist. I suppose that depends on the issue.

What I am is a swing voter, centrist or moderate are words that I don't consider myself. I suppose just because I dislike Warren and consider a far leftist, that makes me a far rightist. So be it.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 03:09 AM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all

Same thing with antifa: Those communist connotations probably come from Germany, where communism and anarchism is more popular. In the US, most antifa are just anti fascist: In the same sense that US patriots and soldiers were in WW II!


We differ here.
"In the same sense that most US patriots and soldiers were in WWII?"
I'm sorry.

I.
Just.
Can't.

Antifa are mostly about the street theater just like their equally deranged counterparts on the right.
All of it is strictly for public display.
Unlike...so very unlike, our men and women in uniform and our patriots, Antifa and the swastika boys have accomplished exactly nothing for all their efforts, except to spread nonsense.

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all

They want all the fascists to go crawl back under the rocks they came out from. I am actually anti-fascist, and I bet most of you are too.


Of course, but I won't ever don the black costume to go fight idiots in the streets. If they ever show up at my work, my home, in my neighborhood or around my family, that's when I'll fight, and for protection, not for public display.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 03:16 AM

Originally Posted By: perotista


There was one big difference, the majority of the people of Massachusetts were in favor of Romneycare. The majority of all Americans opposed Obamacare. That in itself made it an easy target for the GOP take over of the house in 2010.


And yet when polled about the positions and goals set forth in "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" it turns out that a VERY WIDE MAJORITY of Americans very much LIKE "Obamacare".
(Pssstt!!! Just don't call it OBAMACARE)

That's because, apparently ONE THIRD of Americans don't even realize that Obamacare and the ACA are the same thing!

I think we might have found where the anti-Obamacare majority lies.
wink
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 03:18 AM

Considering far left and far right, what about the political ideology of both major parties? YouGov asked about the ideology, not whether either was far right or far left, it was whether the Democrats were too liberal, just about right or not liberal enough. The same question was asked about the Republican Party, too conservative, just about right or not conservative enough. I realize some of you say they aren’t interested in polls, that’s okay. I just thought I would share this anyway for anyone who is interested.

Nationwide, all Americans were asked. You can take a gander at how both parties and independents broke down, by gender, race, age, geographical regions and more by viewing the questions in the link. Question 64. Democratic Party Ideology - Is the Democratic Party...
All Adults, Too Liberal 41%, About right 26%, not liberal enough 12%, not sure 21%

Question 65. Republican Party Ideology - Is the Republican Party...
All adults, Too Conservative 38%, About right 25%, not conservative enough 13%, not sure 23%

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/kvoamfqbbo/econTabReport.pdf

Basically, even in all categories. Now the biggest block of Americans think the Democrats are too liberal and the Republicans too conservative. Right around 40% for both parties which just happens to match the percentage of those who claim to be independents or not affiliated with either major party.

If you think the Democratic Party isn’t liberal enough, this let’s you know what percentage of other Americans agree with you. Same for about right and too liberal. I haven’t run across a Republican on this site yet, but the same would apply to them as for being conservative.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 03:47 AM

Quote:
I haven’t run across a Republican on this site yet


That's just your timing. We certainly have had them here for a very long time.
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 04:00 AM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
I haven’t run across a Republican on this site yet


That's just your timing. We certainly have had them here for a very long time.

Perhaps the topics that interest them doesn't interest me and vice versa.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 02:58 PM

What about Hatrack? He's a Republican, voted for Trump and will again.

But not a Trump cultist. More an adherent to the "any Republican is better than any Democrat" crowd. I suspect a lot of Republicans fall into this category, they'll vote for him but you won't find them at his rallies.

The Senator seems to be MIA though...hope he's okay.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 05:04 PM

Back to topic...

What is a far leftist, anyway?

**raises hand** I am!

I'm not a Democrat and refuse to register as one even though I generally vote for them.

I don't think the Democratic Party is far enough left.

The Democratic Socialist Party best represents my political leanings but I'm not a socialist by any means and I find the name of the party to be awkward because of that. Democratic Socialism is not the same thing as Social Democracy.

In The USA today we draw the line between left and right directly between the two major parties. It's the wrong place to put it by a lot of parameters but it is what it is so we might as well work with it.

Ostensibly the Republican Party is the party of business. The merchant class, the bourgeois. Six figures and up only need apply.

And by that measure The Democratic Party is the party of the working class, the proletariat. Five figures on your tax return puts you in their domain.

But those two statements don't really ring as true as they should. Democrats are a little too cautious, a little too conservative, afraid to stray too far from Republican policy. As Republican policy has moved to the right(and it has) it has dragged the Democratic party with it.

I don't care what the polls seem to indicate, Pero, I think a majority of Americans are farther left than the Democratic Party.

Voters, on the other hand, are not. Especially primary voters who tend to be whiter, older, more middle class and more religious. Probably more male too. That's why we get crappy candidates in the general elections. It's not The Democratic Party, Chunkstyle, it's the primary voters. They picked Clinton over Sanders, not the Party. They'll probably pick Biden but I don't like to think about that.
I just want to get as far away from the Republican policies as I can get.
So if my ideology is farther left than a majority of Democrats I imagine that makes me a member of the "far left".

I can live with that.

Even though it isn't true in the strictest sense of the word.
Posted by: jgw

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 05:59 PM

As far as I can tell the "far left" is that group that are determined that their way is, obviously, better than anybody else's. The result is that the far left is determined to tell everybody else how to live their lives whilst claiming its 'democratic'. As far as the democratic party is concerned the far left seems to be peopled by the purist group who also seem incredibly sensitive to any and all offenses - which they define.

Their hearts seem to be in the right place (I have no idea if that makes it all better or not)

For me, incidentally, I like a two party system that can actually work together to legislate. This means that the resulting legislation should end up being that which both sides can live with and everybody actually gets considered. This is old school and reasonable. We are, however, not exactly in a reasonable time so that doesn't happen. Instead we have a system wherein one side needs to take it all over to get anything done, which also means that whatever side is in charge is basically at war with the other side. This assures everybody that, depending on outlook, the good guys, or bad guys are in charge. There is no middle ground - just hate and tribalism.

For grins I offer: https://www.dsausa.org/ (site for the democratic socialists of America)
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 06:43 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Back to topic...

What is a far leftist, anyway?

**raises hand** I am!

I'm not a Democrat and refuse to register as one even though I generally vote for them.

I don't think the Democratic Party is far enough left.

The Democratic Socialist Party best represents my political leanings but I'm not a socialist by any means and I find the name of the party to be awkward because of that. Democratic Socialism is not the same thing as Social Democracy.

In The USA today we draw the line between left and right directly between the two major parties. It's the wrong place to put it by a lot of parameters but it is what it is so we might as well work with it.

Ostensibly the Republican Party is the party of business. The merchant class, the bourgeois. Six figures and up only need apply.

And by that measure The Democratic Party is the party of the working class, the proletariat. Five figures on your tax return puts you in their domain.

But those two statements don't really ring as true as they should. Democrats are a little too cautious, a little too conservative, afraid to stray too far from Republican policy. As Republican policy has moved to the right(and it has) it has dragged the Democratic party with it.

I don't care what the polls seem to indicate, Pero, I think a majority of Americans are farther left than the Democratic Party.

Voters, on the other hand, are not. Especially primary voters who tend to be whiter, older, more middle class and more religious. Probably more male too. That's why we get crappy candidates in the general elections. It's not The Democratic Party, Chunkstyle, it's the primary voters. They picked Clinton over Sanders, not the Party. They'll probably pick Biden but I don't like to think about that.
I just want to get as far away from the Republican policies as I can get.
So if my ideology is farther left than a majority of Democrats I imagine that makes me a member of the "far left".

I can live with that.

Even though it isn't true in the strictest sense of the word.


You're far Left the way Trumbo was far Left, so that's not really what I think of when I think "far Left".
It just means that you're very very liberal.

So am I, except that I attempt to keep a realist's view on the ODDS of my dreams coming true in case a little bit of it becomes possible in a compromise.
I'll take the little gains over either NO gains or complete and total REVERSALS! any day.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
I haven’t run across a Republican on this site yet


That's just your timing. We certainly have had them here for a very long time.

Perhaps the topics that interest them doesn't interest me and vice versa.


Perotista, the Rant has been online since 1994. It is the oldest political discussion forum in history, at least as far as Doug Thompson can tell after years of research.
The Rant is, as far as anyone can tell, the original, the granddaddy, and we have had tons of conservatives.

As the internet has exploded and matured in growth, thousands of forums have popped up everywhere but we did start to wither a little bit on the vine.

YOU CAN HELP! laugh

I know this is not the exact forum to make this request but here it is:

Let's all do our best to recruit more new members, from any part of the spectrum. Just as long as they are sincere in their desire to actually talk about stuff instead of trolling.

If any of you have a candidate, just PM me and give me the info after you have invited them. If they are interested, I will take it from there and extend an invitation to them.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 10:18 PM

I think the Democratic party has moved so far to the right that republicans now feel comfortable calling themselves democrats. Republican party moved so far right that fascists and nazi's now feel comfortable calling themselves republicans.
Posted by: Senator Hatrack

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 11:18 PM

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
I think the Democratic party has moved so far to the right that republicans now feel comfortable calling themselves democrats. Republican party moved so far right that fascists and nazi's now feel comfortable calling themselves republicans.
The Democratic Party has moved to right? That is one of the most ridiculous comments I've heard in a looooong time!
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/22/19 11:43 PM

How so?
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 12:32 AM

Quote:
As far as I can tell the "far left" is that group that are determined that their way is, obviously, better than anybody else's.

Funny, I thought the republicans were pretty convinced that they have the right of it!

Democrats seem certain that there way is the only way.

Who is this "far left" group anyway? Are they a political party? Or just a group of friends in Seatle?

I jest of course! But you are quite right on one count...my way is obviously better than anybody else's.

As proof I submit the overall failure of both major parties over the last 40 years.

Convinced yet or is Trump not proof enough?
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 01:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger


Convinced yet or is Trump not proof enough?


LOL ROTFMOL LOL
Posted by: Senator Hatrack

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 01:41 AM

Convinced yet or is Trump Clinton not proof enough? I would have voted for Millard Fillmore over either Trump or Clinton. At least he got an auditorium in San Francisco, and in NYC, named after him. Some great rock & roll concerts were performed at those venues. Whipping Post
Wait I can't say that about Trump because according to rporter314 as a conservative I took the "Trumpian ideological purity test and pledged their fealty personally to Mr Trump."
ROTFMOL
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 02:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
Convinced yet or is Trump Clinton not proof enough? I would have voted for Millard Fillmore over either Trump or Clinton. At least he got an auditorium in San Francisco, and in NYC, named after him. Some great rock & roll concerts were performed at those venues. Whipping Post
Wait I can't say that about Trump because according to rporter314 as a conservative I took the "Trumpian ideological purity test and pledged their fealty personally to Mr Trump."
ROTFMOL


6% of the total electorate, 12% of independents, some 9 million voters chose to vote for a third party candidate which was unknown to most of them whether than choose between Trump and Clinton. To vote for a name on that ballot only because their last name wasn't Trump nor Clinton. 60% of all Americans viewed Trump negatively or unfavorable, 56% held the same view of Clinton. Both major party candidate set the record for the highest unfavorable rating ever. The first two ever major party candidates to be viewed unfavorable and unwanted by over 50% of all Americans. Barry Goldwater back in 1964 held the previous record for the highest unfavorable at 47%.

Compare the 6% who voted third party in 2016 to the 1.5% in 2012, 1.2% in 2008 and 1.0% in 2004. 2016 quadrupled the third party vote from 2012 and six times more than 2004. 25% of all Americans disliked both, they didn't want neither Trump nor Clinton to become the next president. This included 54% of all independents.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-...candidates.aspx

2016 showed us all that how we choose our presidential candidates is broken. Perhaps broken beyond repair. When the best candidates either party can come up with is one who had a 38% favorable rating vs. one with a 36%. Time to throw how we do things on the trash heap of history and start anew.

Here's the history of how Americans viewed the major party candidates.

Highest to lowest favorable/unfavorable ratings of each major party presidential candidate.
Favorable/unfavorable
1956 Eisenhower 84/12%
1964 LBJ 81/13%
1976 Carter 81/16%
1960 JFK 80/14%
1960 Nixon 79/16%
1968 Nixon 79/22%
1976 Ford 79/20%
1972 Nixon 76/21%
1968 Humphrey 72/28%
1984 Reagan 71/30%
1980 Carter 68/32%
1984 Mondale 66/34%
1980 Reagan 64/31%
1992 Bill Clinton 64/33%
2008 Obama 62/35%
2012 Obama 62/37%
1956 Stevenson 61/31%
2004 G.W. Bush 61/39%
2008 McCain 60/35%
1992 G.H.W. Bush 59/40%
2000 G.W. Bush 58/38%
2004 Kerry 57/40%
1996 Bill Clinton 56/42%
1988 G.H.W. Bush 56/39%
2000 Gore 55/45%
2012 Romney 55/43%
1972 McGovern 55/41%
1996 Dole 54/45%
1988 Dukakis 50/45%
1964 Goldwater 43/47%
2016 Hillary Clinton 38/56%
2016 Donald Trump 36/60%
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 12:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Back to topic...

What is a far leftist, anyway?

I am!

.but I'm not a socialist by any means


Huh?!
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 02:32 PM

I consider myself to be a card-carrying far-outist. A radical member of the Outie Rebel Faction (ORF) and all that it encompasses... doggedly pursuing freedom from the oppressions of humanity like wild game.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 02:37 PM

Do I believe that Government should own the means of production?

No.

So, by the very definition of it, I simply am not of that school of thought. But If you draw the right/left line between Republicans and Democrats as I stipulated then I am by all means "Far Left". The history of the right/left division goes back to the French Revolution and is a fairly suitable divide between our two major parties.

Quote:
The right is always the party sector associated with the interests of the upper or dominant classes, the left the sector expressive of the lower economic or social classes, and the centre that of the middle classes. Historically this criterion seems acceptable. The conservative right has defended entrenched prerogatives, privileges and powers; the left has attacked them. The right has been more favorable to the aristocratic position, to the hierarchy of birth or of wealth; the left has fought for the equalization of advantage or of opportunity, for the claims of the less advantaged. Defence and attack have met, under democratic conditions, not in the name of class but in the name of principle; but the opposing principles have broadly corresponded to the interests of the different classes.
WIKI
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 03:23 PM

government owning the means of production is like saying capitalism is free enterprise.

I think your using JGW's definition of socialism now.

The Democrats are not the party of the left. That party went away with the new deal.

What we have in it's place is a rebranding effort of two political parties representing the same constituents in two slightly different ways.

It's what is affectionately called neoliberals and neoconservatives.


Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 03:26 PM

Neo's choice - the red pill, or the blue pill?
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 04:43 PM

Or black pilled
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 05:07 PM

Quote:
I think your using JGW's definition of socialism now.


Actually Merriam-Webster. Because words have meaning. I am a Social Democrat. Also Merriam-Webster. It's actually indistinguishable to anyone on the right and most in the center, but it never hurts to put a fine point on things.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 05:35 PM

Capitalism and socialism are two different economic systems. I don't think either can exist in its purest form. But they mix easily and work together well, Like pasta and sauce! You don't want too much of either one.

Governments primary function as far as I'm concerned is to maintain the balance.

When the rich get so rich that the poor have no food or shelter it is an indication that things are out of balance.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 05:38 PM

a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

Also a dictionary definition. No mention of the state owning the means.


Here’s a complete hatchet job that confuses fools, also a bunch of words that give a different meaning:

Common ownership under socialism may take shape through technocratic, oligarchic, totalitarian, democratic or even voluntary rule. Prominent historical examples of socialist countries include the former Soviet Union and Nazi Germany. Contemporary examples include Cuba, Venezuela, and China.

The goal there is to make a complete incoherency out of common shared beliefs, I’m guessing.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 05:43 PM

Semantics. Spare me them.

Mixed systems work. Ours is out of whack.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 05:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Capitalism and socialism are two different economic systems. I don't think either can exist in its purest form. But they mix easily and work together well, Like pasta and sauce! You don't want too much of either one.

Governments primary function as far as I'm concerned is to maintain the balance.

When the rich get so rich that the poor have no food or shelter it is an indication that things are out of balance.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 06:01 PM

There's a lot of places you can put the line between Right and Left.

Some of them aren't even related. Today, in America, that line is drawn between the two parties. I'm pretty sure I just typed a bunch of shite about that. It's the wrong place to put it but it's a convenient marker.

By that standard I am "Far Left"

By others maybe not so much. A social democrat is quite a ways to the right of a card carrying socialist.

Who is somewhat to the right of an avowed communist.

I think social democracy is the missing link that Marx and Engles never thought of.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
.

A social democrat is quite a ways to the right of a card carrying socialist.




Speaking of symantics, Howzat?
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 06:32 PM

Mixed system vs. a swing to Marxian socialism.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 06:53 PM

Your saying Marx advocated state ownership of the means of production over a mixed system?

Could you explain what you mean by a mixed system?
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 07:01 PM

Are you referring to a European style mixed system of state owned utilities and private enterprise when you talk of a mixed system?
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 11:05 PM

Quote:
A mixed economic system is a system that combines aspects of both capitalism and socialism. A mixed economic system protects private property and allows a level of economic freedom in the use of capital, but also allows for governments to interfere in economic activities in order to achieve social aims.
Mixed Economic System Definition - Investopedia

mixed system
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 11:19 PM

Marx thought that society would evolve into socializms.

Then socializms would evolve into communizms

He figgered the workers would revolt and eat the rich then socializms would rise up like a fecking phoenix from the ashes...or somesuch.

Russia and China and a few others tried to force the evolution into occurring but were met with limited success in the long term.

My theory is that the world needs to evolve first into Social Democracy, which is currently occurring naturally and with considerable success. We're even taking steps in that direction here under the guidance of Bernie Sanders and a few others.

Perhaps in a hundred years or so a few of the more advanced nations will begin a move towards actual socialism.

But that's of no concern to us in the here and now.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/23/19 11:43 PM

Socialism and capitalism are sharing space now in various configurations. Both have been evolving. I do see capitalism killing the planet. Socialism not so much. I don't think the planet has a hundred years of capitalism in the tank. I firmly believe the old adage 'it's socialism or barbarism' is an accurate choice from the evidence in front of us.

Your mixed economy website link is the one I quoted equating Nazism and socialism.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 12:33 AM

We're going to be really busy over the next 100 years trying to save our asses. Either the rich help out or we eat them.

It's their choice really.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 08:41 AM

I think I've determined that I'm a far leftist. It may just be that I've been painted that way. I come to this conclusion because of my radical beliefs. Let me list a few:

1) I believe the government should "lay and collect Taxes" and spend it "to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare." That, apparently, makes me a "tax and spend liberal", even though it is explicitly spelled out in the Constitution, Article I,Section 8.

2) I also believe in "equality under law", which, I know, is a liberal position. It says so in the 14th Amendment and on the facade of the Supreme Court.

3) I believe in separation of church and state, like those other radicals.

4) I believe in "due process", another wild-eyed idea.

5) I believe government should be for the people, like it says in the Preamble, that the States should be united. I know, "communism."

6) I'm a "Statist," too, apparently, because I think that the union can be more perfect
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 12:29 PM

Well, when you put it that way... Hmm
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 01:41 PM

I like concrete brutalist architecture, cabbage and track suits so I suppose that makes me a communist.

Waddaminnut... weren’t you advocating for blue dog Democratics in 2018, NWP?

Talk about an arbitrary line.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 03:41 PM

Okay, you got issues, man. wink Cabbage? Track suits? To each his own. Which, by the way, was my argument about Blue Dogs. I don' know about "arbitrary," but I do draw lines. Explain arbitrary?
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 04:04 PM

I've forgotten what a blue dog is/was. Log Cabin guys were gay Republicans right? Or...feck Ima hafto Gurgle it.

Fiscally responsible centrist Democrats who support a strong defense.

DINOs

I suppose in the modern vernacular we'd call them neo-liberals?

Or is that a different coalition? I tend to lump them all together and just call them Democrats. They're a center right to center left party so you'd expect a lot of that.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 04:06 PM

Quote:
I like concrete brutalist architecture, cabbage and track suits


I eat a lot of rice and wear pajamas all day.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 05:50 PM

You were a proponent of a Joe Manchin type of candidate as the way forward for the Democratic party.

A craven grifter firmly representing the corporate interests of resource extraction of W.V.

A senator who votes for Trump more than his own Liberal corporate party.

Contradiction?
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
I like concrete brutalist architecture, cabbage and track suits so I suppose that makes me...

...Ukranian or Russian.

smile
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 06:22 PM

It depends on who's offering me a boardroom seat laugh
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 07:03 PM

Not at all. Clearly you didn't understand the argument, and I simply don't have time to re-educate you. I'm packing for Disney. I don't think it was at all that I wasn't crystal clear. I think it was a matter of the meaning being filtered out by ideology. Feel free to go back and re-read it yourself.
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
You were a proponent of a Joe Manchin type of candidate as the way forward for the Democratic party.

A craven grifter firmly representing the corporate interests of resource extraction of W.V.

A senator who votes for Trump more than his own Liberal corporate party.

Contradiction?
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: What is a far leftist, anyway? - 10/24/19 07:08 PM

Sounds like a philosophical runner.