What would you give up first?

Posted by: itstarted

What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 04:05 PM

So... Push comes to shove, and you have to give sacrifice "something" in order to survive.

What do you give up first?

1. Cable/Satellite
2. Cell phone
3. Going out to eat
4. Internet access
5. Movies/shows/concerts
no hedging
Posted by: loganrbt

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 04:18 PM

Movies, concerts, etc. (which mostly means not buying DVDs)
Eating out
Cable
Land line
Internet
Posted by: kap17

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 04:43 PM

This is kinda easy for me since there are already websites where you can stream TV shows and even movies. So the list is:

1) landline - don't have one anyway
2) movies/shows/concerts
3) cable/satelite
4) going out to eat
5) I don't hedge but I do gamble so I'll throw that in here
6) and lastly the internet... I don't think I'd ever give that up
Posted by: Schlack

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 04:45 PM

staying in is the new going out!

Booze is 50% cheaper (at least) from the off licence.

Booxe sales in pubs has been declining rapidly in Ireland this year.

howeover guinness sales, as they always do, are rising during recession.

Ive already given up my second yearly trip to austria for environmental reasons. only go in summer now.

ordering food in has also gone out the door.

im not actually feeling the pinch, my job is secure and I got promoted this year (as did Mrs Schlack) so am in a reasonably good position. Still, trying to build up some just in case money, which hopefully will turn into "screw you money"!
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 04:49 PM

 Originally Posted By: itstarted
So... Push comes to shove, and you have to give sacrifice "something" in order to survive.

What do you give up first?

1. Cable/Satellite
2. Cell phone
3. Going out to eat
4. Internet access
5. Movies/shows/concerts
no hedging



1. Cable / satellite
2. Movies
3. My second land line. (I've always had two: One for mom and dad and bro and my best friend and the other line for everyone else: Businesses, acquaintances, - which is rarely plugged in - all "they" get is an endless ring - no answering device - I do "occasionally" answer that line and when the person annoys me - that line gets unplugged again for a while...)

Everything else - can't do...






Posted by: Ardy

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 06:19 PM

What do you give up first?

1. Cable/Satellite>>> never had it
2. Cell phone>>> from work and willing to live without it
3. Going out to eat>>> minimal, and could live with out it
4. Internet access>>> that would be tough to give up
5. Movies/shows/concerts>>> already given up in favor of netflix
no hedging





Posted by: stereoman

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 07:05 PM

1. Cable/Satellite - don't have it.
2. Landline - cutting it off in January.
3. Movies/shows/concerts - We go to the movies maybe once, twice a year. It would be hard to give up stage plays, it's a way of supporting artists in our community.
4. Going out to eat - I'd b easy with it, but my Beloved will cling to our Friday night out until the bitter end.
5. Cell phone - essential to my business.
6. Internet access - essential to my businss.







[/quote]
Posted by: Mellowicious

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 07:08 PM

Wow. I dumped my land line in favor of cell a long time ago, and I don't have any kind of tv/video service either (except Netflix). I've already eliminated long-distance travel (missed Halloween with Olyve, drat it) and I'm buying fewer tickets to performances during the arts season - pretty much limiting myself to next spring's operas.

I'm eating out less - that could be cut out completely but it's not necessary (yet).

Another major, but optional expense area - I'm trying to stay out of bookstores. Not altogether successfully - but trying.

As with Schlack, I'm in a fairly secure industry; I'll only be in trouble if/when prices start to climb - I'm cutting back in preparation for that.

For me, I think the un-dumpables are cell, internet, and netflix. That gives me a "hook" into all my people, the arts, music, and armchair travel, and all together < $100/mo. There's a library down the road -- and I'm set.

If things got really ugly the best cost savings I could make would be moving to a cheaper apartment, but that's a pretty intense change and I hope to avoid it.

Wow. Nice thread; made me think about my priorities, which I don't do often enough.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 07:12 PM

Going out to eat
Landline
Movies
Vacation trips...we've been big on travel the last five years.

I can watch DVD's or download movies off the internet.
My wife and I are both good cooks.
I can live without satellite TV..I'd miss it but I could live without it.

I don't think I can give up internet access or my cell.
Both are essential to my business.
Posted by: EmmaG

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 07:12 PM

1. Movies/shows/concerts (that's what our satellite dish is for)
2. Going out to eat -- hardly do that anyway

Everything else we have to keep -- Internet to stay in touch with my son in Mexico, cell phone in case the car breaks down on the long road home, gotta keep the land line because the cell doesn't work out here.

I know! My husband could give up smoking!
Posted by: Garden Toad

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 08:05 PM

My youngest daughter just started college and my husband was layed off this summer.

1.land line. (Actually we gave it up last year.)
2and 3. Going out. No vacations, roadtrips, concerts,shows, movies or dinners.

We still have cable, but it is top on the unnecessary list.It is our only entertainment.

We still have internet. It would be very hard to give up because this is where I get my news. I don't watch TV news and we don't take the newspaper or magazines.

We still have cell phones. I must be in contact with my daughters.

I have bought 3 t-shirts since my husband's lay off and no shoes. this is way downd from what I bought in clothes last year.
I cut and style my own hair.
I buy very few conveniance foods at the grocery store. I have time to prepare meals from scratch. I watch for sales, use coupons again and stock up on sale items. I did a lot of canning and freezing this summer and have a large veggie garden and fruit trees & bushes.
I did not get new eye glasses this year as I usualy do and we no longer see a doctor for check ups or preventative tests. We do have insurance, but it doesn't pay on anything preventative. I wouldn't go anyway unless I was bleeding because my husband doesn't expect to be called back to this company and we don't want any pre-existing condition paper trail to follow us.

The house is paid for. We have no debts. My daughter's education is my biggest concern. We will be okay unless it goes up a lot.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 08:23 PM

I've already given up almost everything. The check for the electric bill at work bounced today and there's no way I can make the rent. My assistant just informed me that my Liability and Workers Comp policies have been canceled. My health insurance is gone as well. My car payment is two months overdue and it will be repo'd soon. My house is paid for but the property tax is due and I have no money to pay it, my ex is buying me food, my cell phone is disconnected, I will lose this phone service at work and the internet connection with it probably within days. I think I can hang on to my dial up service at home for a little bit longer.
I don't have much left to give up
Posted by: sticksnstrings

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 09:12 PM

1. Going out to eat - Would be first on the list and for the most part we already have given this up - Although I did take my wife out for sushi last week. We love sushi and I have not taken her out for so long since she's been out of work.

2. Movies/shows/concerts - I was going to a lot of concerts for a few years there but I can leave that one alone. Never really went to movies much.

3. Cable/Satellite - Cable: What a FREAKING WASTE OF MONEY! All of those channels and hardly anything new is ever on. I watch The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, South Park and then the rest is just crap - paying that bill for mostly reruns of the same crap they've been playing for years. I hate it and if it were not for my wife, I would probably ditch it. However, I did call up the cable company and get them to reduce my bill. I also have high speed internet through the cable company which is a redundancy to the broadband service through my cell phone provider - essential for my work. I could give it up but I like having the backup just in case the broadband has a problem.

4. Internet access - I absolutely could not give up internet access. I need it, most importantly, for work but entertainment and news as well. As I mentioned, I have two internet access options but in a pinch, I would give up the cable internet access first.

5. Cell phone - Again, the phone is essential to staying in the game as far as being in contact with work and being available for new job prospects. I have a land line which has been in the family for many years and I would hate to give it up but in a pinch, it goes first.

Things have been getting pretty scary. Thank God, I'm still working but it's been real nervous around work these days.

I haven't had to give up a whole lot yet. I've simply adjusted my habits to where they probably should have been anyway.

I still owe a boatload of money on the house, have two car payments, insurance, basically ALL living expenses for two adults. It is tough but so far I have been fortunate in that I am still working and paying my bills.
Posted by: Mellowicious

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 09:27 PM

Greger, SticksnStrings (and Gardentoad - sorry I missed your post) - thanks for the reality check. I know you would much rather not be educating me in this way.

I hope both of you (and/or your SOs) find work in the near future.
Best wishes to you both.
Posted by: olyve

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 11:03 PM

I thank you too, Greger, Sticks, and Garden Toad too. I'm sorry for the struggles and hope things get better for you soon.

We live such a streamlined life that I don't exactly know what would be substantial to give up.
We both quit our higher paying, higher stress jobs years ago (me...20 years, he 10 years). Our design was to live on what we make on the cleaning business I started. We have always managed our money very carefully because we don't make that much money.
Yes we have some money in savings to fall back on but we try never to touch that. We had to a bit when my daughter got married (her dad didn't help with that much) and when my younger daughter got her first car.
Everything we have is paid for so that helps.

I don't get all the preventative procedures I should get (I've never had a colonoscopy for example) because all we have is catastrophic coverage. I won't give up going to the dentist or my gynecologist once every 1 1/2 years.

Our telephone/computer/tv is all tied to the same cable deal we got a year ago. When that contract is up here soon, they will sock it to us costwise I'm sure so we'll go with something else. That is probably when we'll finally give up our land line and get cell phones (no we've never had one yet).
I rarely watch tv so I don't need cable there. All our news we get online so I don't feel we could give this up.

We rarely go to movies but we go to a lot of concerts. Local concerts are very cheap usually though plus sometimes we're even on the guest list... \:\) . We don't drink that much so those aren't expensive. I guess IF I HAD TO (kicking and screaming), we'd give up the little trips out of town to see concerts in Atlanta, Asheville, Chattanooga, etc. because those usually mean a hotel stay too. Plus those are usually the pricier concerts.
Concerts are really our only "extravagance" so things would have to be pretty bad for us to give that up.
Afterall, we're not getting any younger so you gotta wonder how long we're going to be able to do it anyway.
At least as long as Phil though...right?

I'm not a shopper and don't buy that many clothes. We do spend quite a bit on groceries so I could probably cut back there.
My husband is a retired CPA so he works on our taxes all year long and projected income, etc. If it looks like it's going to be a "loss" year, we give up trips and cut back going out to eat, and maybe even a concert or two.
Posted by: BC

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/11/08 11:16 PM

What do I give up first?

5. Movies/shows/concerts (rare events already)

2. Cell phone (would be easy & may happen in November...or the land line goes)

4. Internet access (would simply apply focus elsewhere...I'm not yet addicted to requiring all news, all info, all answers, all communications, regardless of accuracy or importance NOW, right NOW, gotta have it NOW)

1. Cable/Satellite (bad habit despite answer on #4...could live with air broadcasts & print news nicely though)

3. Going out to eat (wife might revolt on weekends)
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 01:35 AM

Greger that is a very sobering reality check.
It sounds like your business is one of those that were hit hard by the economic collapse.
May I ask which business it is?
Posted by: Greger

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 02:00 AM

Jeff, we build hardwood stairs and specialize in bending wood for big circular stairs. We manufacture, build, sell, and install all types of stairs and stair components.
Posted by: erinys

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 03:27 AM

I feel fairly good right now, but if it comes down to it:
1. satellite TV
2. soda...I drink probably too much, anyway.
Posted by: erinys

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 03:31 AM

oh yeah...and cut back on buying books, videogames, movies, etc that aren't essentials.
Don't go out that much, so no worries there.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 05:45 AM

Movies/shows/concerts: My wife gets motion-sick from a big movie screen and we both have to wear earplugs at concerts to protect our hearing (which tells you about the kind of music we like). So we don't really spend much on these anyway. In fact almost all the concerts we go to are free via radio station promotions.

Going out to eat: Again, we don't spend much on the food we like out. Usually less than $5/meal! Hard to beat that by cooking at home.

Cable/Satellite: We actually receive about 35 digital broadcast channels from the antenna I have pointed at LA's Mt. Wilson. So there would still be plenty of free stuff to watch without the DirecTV satellite service. For anybody thinking about losing cable with an older TV: Get on the government website for a free DTV converter box coupon. It is worth up to $40 on the purchase of a converter box (and some do cost only $40), so you can still get free broadcast TV after February.

Cell phone: My wife and I both have cell phones on a family share plan with 3 other relatives. I might have a problem with my boss if I gave it up. Other than that they are mostly for safety.

Internet access: We both get most of our news, contact with friends and relatives, access to brokerage accounts, etc. via Internet. We also pay bills, do bank account maintenence, and so much stuff that would have to be replaced with more expensive alternatives. At $19/month, I would go out and collect soda cans to keep it if I had to!
Posted by: Joe Keegan

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 06:33 AM

When I watched TV, an antenna was for me the way to go supplemented by trips to the video store for movies. Just put up one that you can rotate for better reception and more stations.

Joe
Posted by: sticksnstrings

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 07:20 AM

Thanks for the nice sentiments Mellowicious and olyve - and what a sobering post by Gregor.

At this point though, I believe I've just been forced to be more responsible. I used to spend very frivolously and as a result, my wife and I have a lot of nice things to show for it - things that I am glad we have already because I could not go out and buy them now.

Now I must be very frugal and conservative. This has been a great lesson - still a scary one but a great lesson, nevertheless.

I just hope that we can all make it through this without too much pain but I fear the worst.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 06:39 AM

 Originally Posted By: Greger
Jeff, we build hardwood stairs and specialize in bending wood for big circular stairs. We manufacture, build, sell, and install all types of stairs and stair components.


Greger it is obvious that you've been very badly affected by the housing collapse. Who knew that we would have a resident expert on the subject right here.
I wish good things for you, only good things.
I wish I knew about a huge construction project that needed gorgeous hardwood stairs right now.
I do know that luthiers and other instrument makers depend on bending wood for their craft but something tells me we're talking about a much different size scale in that regard.

Did you use to get a lot of work on Star Island or any of the other hoity-toity locales? I figure those areas will pick up before any others.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 11:35 AM

I needed to buy a refrigerator for my house. Lowes turned down my credit application on Monday night.

I put my 1996 Ford Ranger on Craig's List at 11 a.m. yesterday before going off to do my chicken work. I really hadn't driven the truck much in the past 6 years due to having a company car from my M-F job - while still paying $59.00 month to insure said truck.

The truck sold at 7:30 last night - cash.

I immediately went to Lowe's and bought a refrigerator and paid cash and had $29.64 left over.
Posted by: stereoman

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 01:09 PM

Good one, rick! Stupid Lowe's, they could've made some $$ off of you, instead they shot themselves in the foot.
Posted by: Ma_Republican

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 02:23 PM

 Originally Posted By: itstarted
So... Push comes to shove, and you have to give sacrifice "something" in order to survive.

What do you give up first?

1. Cable/Satellite
2. Cell phone
3. Going out to eat
4. Internet access
5. Movies/shows/concerts
no hedging









3. Cable/Satellite - Give me a good book and I am OK for a couple of days. Give me a library card and I can like forever without TV.
1. Cell phone - I don't carry it with me, ever. I have one for emergencies.
3. Going out to eat - I cook pretty well, I could enjoy my own cooking.
4. Internet access - That one would be tough, I am a news junkey.
2. Movies/shows/concerts - I only do this a couple of times a year, so I wouldn't miss it at all.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 02:29 PM

 Originally Posted By: stereoman
Good one, rick! Stupid Lowe's, they could've made some $$ off of you, instead they shot themselves in the foot.

Actually Lowe's has an "interest free for one year" special going on right now - I would have paid off the account before the year is up to avoid the interest.

...but the really awesome thing is that it felt so good to plop down those Benjamin's and just be free from the thought of factoring in payments to them monthly.
Posted by: kap17

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 04:55 PM

 Originally Posted By: california rick
I needed to buy a refrigerator for my house. Lowes turned down my credit application on Monday night.


Speaks volumes about your credit when you get rejected by a store for credit.

And you like to point fingers at Wall Street... ironic, huh?
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 05:36 PM

 Originally Posted By: kap17
Speaks volumes about your credit when you get rejected by a store for credit.

And you like to point fingers at Wall Street... ironic, huh?

I think just spending $203K with Countrywide on Monday had more to do with it. ;\)
Posted by: kap17

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 05:51 PM

 Originally Posted By: california rick
 Originally Posted By: kap17
Speaks volumes about your credit when you get rejected by a store for credit.

And you like to point fingers at Wall Street... ironic, huh?

I think just spending $203K with Countrywide on Monday had more to do with it. ;\)


Not really. For a person leaving within their means the total debt to income ratio (including housing expense) is around 35-41%. Adding a monthly payment of $60-80 to that (assumed minimum monthly payment for a fridge) will not push you that much higher to make a store deny credit.
Posted by: SuZQ

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 08:10 PM

OK,I think we're getting a little off topic here, so I'll try and get back on track. What would I give up?

Movies, concerts would be the easiest since I can't remember the last time I went to a movie in a theater. Same with concerts, except for a 6-week classical summer concert series to the Colorado Music Festival that we've had tickets to for the past 23 years. That one would be hard to talk my husband out of at this point. It's our one big entertainment extravagance.

Eating out would probably be fairly easy since we live in the country and once you're home, you don't normally feel like venturing out again anyway.

Cell phones only became a necessity when our only child went off to college. He's set to graduate next May, so we'll hang on to them at least a little longer, but I could certainly drop the family plan thing and just get one of those that use prepaid minutes.

Cable/satellite TV - After getting satellite service after years of cable, I have to say there really is a lot of repetitious crap on there and I could easily do with just the basic channels or no TV if things got really desperate.

I've been very fortunate to have a job where I can check the Internet during off times, and rarely use the one at home, but I would miss my email access.

None of this stuff would have really worried me when my husband and I were both working full time, but when he was forced to leave his job on medical disability due to his Parkinson's disease, it certainly caused us to pause and think what really were necessities in life.

My heart goes out to Greger and the others here who are struggling. Things have to get better and, hopefully, sooner than later. Hang in there.
Posted by: Snargle

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 08:28 PM

 Originally Posted By: itstarted

What do you give up first?

1. Cable/Satellite
2. Cell phone
3. Going out to eat
4. Internet access
5. Movies/shows/concerts
no hedging

My list:
1. Cell Phone - I have a prepaid cell phone in the car, mostly for emergencies. It might get used once a month, if that.
2. Movies/shows/concerts - No big deal; we only go a couple of times a year. If we splurge, we'll do three days at the Philadelphia Folk Festival in August. It's only a couple hundred bucks total for both of us and it seems to give us our live music fix for the entire year.
3. Eating out - Most times I'd rather eat my own cooking. It's better, cheaper, and I get to choose the menu!
4. Cable/Internet Access - We get our Internet from our cable provider and my wife has to have it for her in-home business. That one's non-negotiable. If we had to unbundle, I could probably give up cable as long as we had the 'Net.
Posted by: Mellowicious

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/12/08 09:12 PM

Okay, no fair giving up stuff you don't do anyway!

I just realized - one of the first things on my list would be my expensive haircuts - even though I only get my hair cut 4 or 5 times a year!
Posted by: erinys

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 12:26 AM

 Originally Posted By: Mellowicious
Okay, no fair giving up stuff you don't do anyway!

I just realized - one of the first things on my list would be my expensive haircuts - even though I only get my hair cut 4 or 5 times a year!


You know, after reading through the thread, I was just thinking that the whole point of the original post might have been what actual expenditures in your life are you willing to give up. In that spirit, my original two are still valid. I spend money each month on Satellite TV, but could get rid of it if necessary. And I spend waaayyy too much money on soda (I don't like coffee, so that"s really my only caffeine source), so I could give that up to save money. I could also renegotiate my cell phone package to reduce the money I spend there. And I have a satellite pay radio in my vehicle, I could give that up.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 12:41 AM

 Originally Posted By: kap17
For a person leaving within their means the total debt to income ratio (including housing expense) is around 35-41%.

My apartment rent was $1072.00 (1bd/1ba). My mortgage is going to be $1236.00 (3bd/2.25 ba). That's an income ratio of nearly 46% for rent; 48% for the mortgage.

No one I know has that low of a income-to-debt ratio ratio of 35% - 41%. Those figures, for the Bay Area, are simply unrealistic.

So, yes, in my situation, a store would deny me credit currently. Three years ago? No problem.

It's fine. I paid cash. So I don't have that bill hanging over my head.
Posted by: BC

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 12:43 AM

Sadly, but conveniently, I look around and know that most of what I have & use can be categorized as luxury. I've lost the ability to rationalize those items as necessary for the raising & education of kids...they're out of the house. Even when they were here, I found that most of what I had, most of what I bought was unnecessary. The easiest place to look in comparison was at my parents & what they required to raise 7 kids...very little actually. Necessities were defined as what was necessary, and not as what was available, not as what others had, not as the newest, latest or greatest to replace yesterday's newest, latest & greatest. We are a "I want" society. We, for the most part, do not understand what "I need" truly means. We, for the most & lucky part, don't have a need to understand the concept of need. Conspicuous consumption is our norm, unapologetically...mostly because we don't understand...or really care unless some luxury deprivation inconveniences us. And even then, we don't get it. We whine and move on to something else we don't need but which sooths our need to have things we don't need.

Ahhhhhh....ain't we spoiled....
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 12:48 AM

 Originally Posted By: SuZQ
My heart goes out to Greger and the others here who are struggling.

Gregor is going to be fine - he as a terrific backup plan. ;\)
Posted by: dockside

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 01:01 AM

First to go would be (and will be, I think) the satellite TV (we decided to disconnect about 2 months ago. I called them and said we wanted to disconnect as it wasn't worth the cost. The agent said they'd give us a $100 credit and also reduce the cost for 6 months by $20 - no strings attached).

Second would be movies, concerts, etc. I've already bought tix for productions at our local theater. Won't buy anymore.

Third would be eating out (we rarely do that now).

Fourth, cell phone. Have a contract until Aug. Only use it to call home, if necessary, when I'm out of the house.
Posted by: Mellowicious

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 01:20 AM

THERE SHE IS THERE SHE IS!!! Dockside's back! People have been asking about you & I deleted your message; couldn't email you.

It's good to see you!
Posted by: Greger

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 01:35 AM

 Quote:
Gregor is going to be fine - he has a terrific backup plan. ;\)


Rick has graciously offered me a position as Chef and Butler at his new estate. When I reach the end of my rope here I will spend my last pennies on a flight to the left coast.........
Posted by: stereoman

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 03:20 AM

You got it made, Greger. And once you sell your won estate, you can afford that ticket, and might even have some money left over to pay off your creditors.

Welcome back, dockside!

 Originally Posted By: kap17
For a person leaving within their means the total debt to income ratio (including housing expense) is around 35-41%.

 Originally Posted By: california rick
No one I know has that low of a income-to-debt ratio ratio of 35% - 41%.

Me neither, rick. Most middle class people I know are paying 30-50% on their house note and various insurances. Don't even start on credit cards!

I'd love to see some hard data on that. Got any, kap?
Posted by: kap17

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 04:56 PM

 Originally Posted By: stereoman
Me neither, rick. Most middle class people I know are paying 30-50% on their house note and various insurances. Don't even start on credit cards!

I'd love to see some hard data on that. Got any, kap?


All I got is my 5 year experience in underwriting home loans. For the past 6 months I've been reviewing FHA loans to make sure they have been underwritten properly and follow all FHA guidelines including income ratios.

The vast majority of people outside California have DTI ratios below 41%. California is an exception because of the inflated home prices but for new loans (due to the falling prices of homes) the ratios have been a lot lower than in the past.
Posted by: olyve

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 06:55 PM

 Originally Posted By: stereoman
You got it made, Greger. And once you sell your won estate, you can afford that ticket, and might even have some money left over to pay off your creditors.

Welcome back, dockside!

 Originally Posted By: kap17
For a person leaving within their means the total debt to income ratio (including housing expense) is around 35-41%.

 Originally Posted By: california rick
No one I know has that low of a income-to-debt ratio ratio of 35% - 41%.

Me neither, rick. Most middle class people I know are paying 30-50% on their house note and various insurances. Don't even start on credit cards!

I'd love to see some hard data on that. Got any, kap?
If you look at what Kap wrote (quoted above), he said for a person living within their means not most people.
Posted by: olyve

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 06:55 PM

good to see you, dockside
Posted by: Mellowicious

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 07:30 PM

Out of curiosity - does this ratio apply only to those buying houses? If so, is there a similar ratio for those without mortgages?
Posted by: kap17

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 07:49 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mellowicious
Out of curiosity - does this ratio apply only to those buying houses? If so, is there a similar ratio for those without mortgages?


The ratio applies to everyone. Homeowners have mortgage plus insurance and taxes while renters have rent for housing expense. Both renters and homeowners have to pay for utilities (unless renters have a deal with the homeowner or appartment owner).

Added to the housing expense are the other debts such as Credit cards, car payments, car insurance, etc...

Once that is all taken in account, whatever is left is considered disposable income.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 07:57 PM

My disposeable income has been in negative numbers for a while now even with no mortgage or rent. My home and land are appraised at $475K so I could sell that and buy something cheaper and get myself out of trouble. I built that house myself and have lived in it 25 years. It aint for sale.
Posted by: Mellowicious

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 08:50 PM

kap - I'm sorry; I knew that, but I've been reformatting a 150-page proposal all day and am short a few brain cells. Thanks.
Posted by: stereoman

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 09:34 PM

 Originally Posted By: olyve
 Originally Posted By: stereoman
You got it made, Greger. And once you sell your won estate, you can afford that ticket, and might even have some money left over to pay off your creditors.

Welcome back, dockside!

 Originally Posted By: kap17
For a person leaving within their means the total debt to income ratio (including housing expense) is around 35-41%.

 Originally Posted By: california rick
No one I know has that low of a income-to-debt ratio ratio of 35% - 41%.

Me neither, rick. Most middle class people I know are paying 30-50% on their house note and various insurances. Don't even start on credit cards!

I'd love to see some hard data on that. Got any, kap?
If you look at what Kap wrote (quoted above), he said for a person living within their means not most people.

Thanks for the tip, olyve. I was hoping hard data would lead us to recognize how many Americans are living within their means. I regret that my hasty style may have left the impression that I was disputing kap's assertion.

A rudimentary search yields this factoid from the always reliable Pew Trust:
 Quote:
As expenses have risen, middle income Americans have taken on more debt, often borrowing against homes that, at least until recently, had been rising rapidly in value. The median debt-to-income ratio for middle income adults increased from 0.45 in 1983 to 1.19 in 2004. Ratios have also increased for upper and lower income adults, but not by as much.

Just a quick review: median means there are an equal number below and above that point. So for every middle income American whose DTI is less than 119%, there is one whose DTI is above 119%.
Posted by: kap17

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 09:47 PM

 Originally Posted By: stereoman
 Originally Posted By: olyve
 Originally Posted By: stereoman
You got it made, Greger. And once you sell your won estate, you can afford that ticket, and might even have some money left over to pay off your creditors.

Welcome back, dockside!

 Originally Posted By: kap17
For a person leaving within their means the total debt to income ratio (including housing expense) is around 35-41%.

 Originally Posted By: california rick
No one I know has that low of a income-to-debt ratio ratio of 35% - 41%.

Me neither, rick. Most middle class people I know are paying 30-50% on their house note and various insurances. Don't even start on credit cards!

I'd love to see some hard data on that. Got any, kap?
If you look at what Kap wrote (quoted above), he said for a person living within their means not most people.

Thanks for the tip, olyve. I was hoping hard data would lead us to recognize how many Americans are living within their means. I regret that my hasty style may have left the impression that I was disputing kap's assertion.

A rudimentary search yields this factoid from the always reliable Pew Trust:
 Quote:
As expenses have risen, middle income Americans have taken on more debt, often borrowing against homes that, at least until recently, had been rising rapidly in value. The median debt-to-income ratio for middle income adults increased from 0.45 in 1983 to 1.19 in 2004. Ratios have also increased for upper and lower income adults, but not by as much.

Just a quick review: median means there are an equal number below and above that point. So for every middle income American whose DTI is less than 119%, there is one whose DTI is above 119%.


This only furthers the point I was making in a few threads on economics.

How do Americans expect corporations to be responsible with the money when citizens themselves are not?

Before you start blaming the corporations for the current downturn in the economy (don't get me wrong, they deserve at least half of the blame) how about blaming the citizens that are increasingly living way beyond their means?
Posted by: Mellowicious

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/13/08 10:10 PM

but...but Kap17 - I *do* blame those people. They're responsible for silliness like SkyMall and a Starbucks on every corner, among many other things, and I don't like that at all!

I am closer to being one of them than I like - but so far I haven't joined the ranks, and I intend not to if I can help it.

(Speaking of which: The people we're going to "help out" with their mortgages? I don't mind that if they have a reasonably-sized house. But I don't particularly want to bail out the foolish owners of McMansions so they can continue to occupy space they can't afford, by giving them a what? 50, 60 year mortgage?)
Posted by: erinys

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/23/08 07:28 AM

I'm glad I put some thought into this subject. I might be needing to think about it in greater detail soon, since my employer is talking cut backs. We had a meeting in our department on Thursday on who could cutback hours and how much. Among other cuts, all full time personnel are cutting back to 36 hrs a week. On overnights, we work three 12 hr shifts anyway, so I don't have to take a cut....yet.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What would you give up first? - 11/23/08 07:16 AM

 Originally Posted By: erinys
And I have a satellite pay radio in my vehicle, I could give that up.


---I forgot all about that...thanks for reminding me!
I guess I could give up my Sirius.
I haven't tuned in Howstern for a long time now, he's in one of his "less than funny" cycles the last month or so.
But I discovered the E Street Channel and a couple of the "vault" channels with some incredibly good music.

But I suppose I could just load up an mp3 player.
Yeah, the Sirius could go I guess.