What is "old"?

Posted by: NW Ponderer

What is "old"? - 10/09/19 05:26 PM

Bernie Sanders, 78, had a heart attack, but is back on the trail. Jimmy Carter, 95, had a fall - but went back to building the next day. No less than 5 of the presidential candidates are over 70. Clearly, 70 is not "too old" for some things in life.

I just had a birthday. My wife is looking at CCRCs (continuous care retirement communities). Frankly, neither of us qualifies by age, but she does have a disability. The average age of entry is 78 for a CCRC. I've got two decades before then, and nearly a decade before I qualify for Social Security. I'm barely old enough for AARP or an "adult community" (55 plus). Still, my son thinks I'm "old". He thinks I shouldn't climb a ladder on my own, or do a lot of activities (I don't want to do anyway) around the house.

I retired early. I love that. But, notwithstanding aches and pains, I don't think of myself as "old". How about others? When does one qualify as "old" in this day and age?
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is "old"? - 10/09/19 06:44 PM

My partner in the biochar stuff, the guy who does most of the inventing, a lot of the fabricating, and still has time for a side gig trying to help poor folks on the Mexico side of the border, is 80 - he works at least six 8+ hour days each week and is more productive that most people I know of any age. He lives in self administered poverty with basically only Social Security for income (we aren't making money yet). His strong life mission is climate change mitigation and the alleviation of poverty and suffering everywhere.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is "old"? - 10/09/19 07:56 PM

In almost any other occupation I wouldn't worry about 78 being old.
I wouldn't even worry about 78 with a mild heart attack being too old.
With the office of POTUS however, the consequences of being sidelined by something that serious, are wide ranging and can potentially affect every man, woman and child on Earth.

So it's not that I think Bernie is too old, I think he's too old and frail, only for the job of POTUS. I think that he should finish out as many terms in the US Senate as he wants.
I even think that he should be a valued member of the incoming POTUS cabinet.
I'd even be okay with him being VP if paired with the right candidate.

And if by some miracle Bernie DOES WIN the Democratic Party nomination for POTUS, I WILL vote for him in November 2020, but unlike 2016, I won't support him in the primaries like I did last time around. My support goes to Liz Warren, who is clearly healthier.

It's not ageism...the man just had a heart attack.
I might (God forbid) have one just like his tomorrow, but I wouldn't dream of running for POTUS in the aftermath if I did.

If he gets the nomination, I will cast my vote for Bernie 2020 as POTUS but he is not my first choice and I would hope he would pick a more robust running mate, and I would worry about him surviving the job every single day he was in office.




Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: What is "old"? - 10/09/19 11:30 PM

Anything or anyone older than you is old. Anything or anyone younger than you is a Whippersnapper, or brand spanken new. Anything or anyone the same age as you is just right..

Agreed, the job of POTUS ages the holder; the stress of the job has a strong possibility of killing Bernie and Joe, and may just do the same to Liz. So, I would be voting for who ever is Bernie's or Joe's VP running mate. However, with Liz being the youngest of the three best candidates, I would vote for her, and she is in the best candidates pool that I could vote for.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What is "old"? - 10/10/19 12:28 AM

I honestly think the job would kill Bernie. Just look at what it did to Obama.

But age in general is pretty irrelevant. My neighbor at 91 was climbing up on his roof to oil the rotary attic fans, and still crawling under his house to do some sort of maintenance job. He inspired me. My mom is 91 and can barely stand up with help. She broke both hips and never did the work to get moving again. She has a scooter and lives in an assisted living place that feeds them as much as they want three times a day. That and TV are her only activities.

The Social Security Life Table has useful data: I would say don't elect men over 80, because at that age their average life expectancy is 8.34 years. Likewise don't elect women after age 83, because their life expectancy is 8.04 years. I'm not sure what having a stent does to those numbers, but I'm pretty certain it's not good.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What is "old"? - 10/10/19 12:39 AM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I'm not sure what having a stent does to those numbers, but I'm pretty certain it's not good.

Welp, Dick Cheney is still alive and kicking, isn't he? coffee
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/10/19 01:30 AM

If this is about Bernie, He's not too old. He'd be an amazing president! His VP would likely be supportive of his policies and would continue on as if Bernie were in charge if The Bern happened to flame out. But, alas, we'll never find out because he's stuck in the polls and will not get the Democratic nod.

If it's about people in general...genetics is key. I'm old at 66. It looks like I'm going to need a caregiver twice a week to come in help me out because I'm not able to take care of myself anymore. My dad died at 72 and I'm in far worse shape than him at this age. Modern medicine might keep me alive a little longer than that but for the most part...I don't even buy green bananas anymore.

Every genetic flaw from both parents landed on me. And every poor life choice(and there were many) has come back to haunt me. Lungs are shot from smoking 2 packs a day for 30+ years, Liver is shot from drinking for forty years after I contracted HepC. I have degenerative joint disease from years of extreme sports and multiple major auto collisions. I spent a career in construction abusing my body for the sake of speed and money. I'm a physical wreck and this keyboard could go silent at any time. I fell down again yesterday. I've hurt my back pretty badly, looks like I'll lose a big toenail, and my good knee is banged up and will barely support me...
Posted by: perotista

Re: What is "old"? - 10/10/19 01:30 AM

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
In almost any other occupation I wouldn't worry about 78 being old.
I wouldn't even worry about 78 with a mild heart attack being too old.
With the office of POTUS however, the consequences of being sidelined by something that serious, are wide ranging and can potentially affect every man, woman and child on Earth.

So it's not that I think Bernie is too old, I think he's too old and frail, only for the job of POTUS. I think that he should finish out as many terms in the US Senate as he wants.
I even think that he should be a valued member of the incoming POTUS cabinet.
I'd even be okay with him being VP if paired with the right candidate.

And if by some miracle Bernie DOES WIN the Democratic Party nomination for POTUS, I WILL vote for him in November 2020, but unlike 2016, I won't support him in the primaries like I did last time around. My support goes to Liz Warren, who is clearly healthier.

It's not ageism...the man just had a heart attack.
I might (God forbid) have one just like his tomorrow, but I wouldn't dream of running for POTUS in the aftermath if I did.

If he gets the nomination, I will cast my vote for Bernie 2020 as POTUS but he is not my first choice and I would hope he would pick a more robust running mate, and I would worry about him surviving the job every single day he was in office.





Last time around I started off supporting Jim Webb, when he didn't campaign, I switched to John Kasich, before finally voting third party against both major party candidates. This time I started off supporting John Hickenlooper, he has withdrawn. Now I'm keeping an eye on Amy Klobuchar and Tulsi Gabbard. Although I don't have much hope for either. I like Joe Biden, always have. As a senator and as VP. But I do wonder if he isn't getting a bit senile. Perhaps his time has come and gone. Even so, if Biden gets the nomination, I'd vote for him. Especially if his VP would be Gabbard or Klobuchar.

I would much prefer the Democrats go with a fresh young face. Not with someone 70 or older. Time to pass the baton to a younger generation. Anyway, here is the latest from RCP.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls...ation-6730.html

Staying with age, check out question 57 Ideal Presidential age - What is the ideal age for a person to serve as President of the United States?

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/x3neaunoh2/econTabReport.pdf
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: What is "old"? - 10/10/19 01:42 PM

It is not physical activity in the job, but stress. Stress is known to cause elevated hormone levels and inflammation, raise blood pressure, along with elevated risk of heart attack and stroke. It is the stress of the job that is the killer. The older you are the less stress you can handle...
Posted by: jgw

Re: What is "old"? - 10/14/19 09:42 PM

I have posted this before (a while ago). I am 85 years old. The VA gives me a day long memory test every now and then. It takes an entire day and then they will call me and tell me how I did. They always call and the first question is always; "how do you think you did". My reply remains the same; "I failed". then, of course, I get "you cannot win or fail these tests but we do rate you along with your age group". So far I have been in the upper 1%. I think that anybody even verging on 80 years old, and are considering any kind of real job, ESPECIALLY, president, are clinically crazy! They may not even be having memory problems but, unless they are crazy lucky, they probably will.

I have severe speech aphasia (forget words I know, but my wife is well trained to fill in the missing word), rarely remember anything that happened in the last 60 seconds (take me longer to a actually insert stuff into my memory recall part), etc. (its really easy to lose a train of thought if interrupted, etc) If anybody is even verging on my "age group" they are in trouble (memory wise) as far as I can see. I know, and I am sure others too know people older than I who are doing just fine and have no memory problems. The fact, however, is that those folks are few, and far between, based on people who study this kind of stuff have found to be true.

The only positive thing is that the guy who gives the test is a neurologist specializing in brain function so I have to assume he knows what he is doing and he tells me I am doing well. He has also told me that I am not "a candidate for Alzheimer" which is really on the good side. I remember when my dad's wife told me that my dad had altzheimer. At the time there were few who could even diagnose that so I sent them both to seattle to get examined. She found out that she was in good shape but my dad had severe memory loss. Sometimes, for instance, he had no idea who he was or where he was. There is a very real difference between altzheimer and memory loss. I think the difference is really the difference of knowing what is going on and not knowing. Altzheimers also effects bodily functions which begin to fail over time. I am sure folks won't completely agree with all of that one, but, in the fullness of time.......

So, I think both Bernie and Joe are just too damned old unless they are extraordinarily fit both physically and mentally. We will of course, in Bernie's case, get to watch an elderly man basically commit suicide for the entertainment, or horrification, of America's voting class.

Just saying....................
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: What is "old"? - 10/15/19 01:01 PM

Dam, Grandpa get over to the side of the road and let us Spring Chickens move along. You know how us 70 years olds are, well 70 in a few months.

You sure you belong on these boards, you begin in the upper 1% and all LOL ThumbsUp

Just judging from your post, you ain't losing any trains.

As for Bernie and Joe, fully agree.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/15/19 01:58 PM

When I fell the second time and really really hurt my back, I called my ex-father in law before I called 911. He's a doctor, retired at 85, 94 now and still sharp as a tack. He asked doctor questions and assured me I would be fine without another trip in an ambulance.

jgw is a treasure. His missives are sometimes long but always worth a read.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: What is "old"? - 10/15/19 04:02 PM

I'm enjoying this thread. Didn't know where it might go. My wife and I have very different views about aging. I have more in common with my sons and their friends, technically and socially, than with many of my contemporaries and acquaintances (who, by and large, are a decade or more ahead of me).

My love "thinks" old (hence the CCRC thing). Some of it is her disability, but her attitude about that has changed dramatically in 5 years. She needs more independence, and so do I. I have more things to do in a day than just honey-dos. It is actually becoming a conflict, and that worries me. I'm more sedentary than I prefer and it is having a real effect. I'm getting rounder, and easily winded. That's just not me, and I don't like it.

Yesterday, I went to the senior activity center with her to join the SAIL (Stay Active In Life) exercise class. Great stuff, btw, but I'm 15 years younger than the other participants (except my wife). I volunteer in the computer lab, and really appreciate the senior center and its activities. It's connecting me to my community. But...

Nobody there rides a motorcycle, or bikes. Most activities are "indoors" (i.e., seated - including the SAIL class). I need to have an activity companion, not a bridge partner. I haven't held a racket in 5 years. I need to get out and do or I'll atrophy. I'm going stir crazy! Any suggestions or experiences to draw on? Really, please help! How do I balance what I want to do with what I can do?
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/15/19 04:34 PM

You aren't going to like this but it's something that has worked for me since they started taking things away that I liked to do.

Most recently it's walking. I'm getting measured for a wheelchair today.

So my friends express worry and sadness that I'll soon be wheelchair bound. No problem, I tell them(and myself) I'm a lazy man and I don't like walking anyway.

Put the best face on it that you can, smile and carry on. Life is still grand! I enjoy every minute of every day. Even though I can't do much of anything anymore.

And get your chubby lil ass down to the gym while you still can. Ride your scooter there. Go for a run with the dog, be aware that the days you can still do those things are numbered. Do what you can while you can and you'll be doing them longer than you can imagine.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is "old"? - 10/15/19 10:52 PM

Greger, if you can still STAND and walk a few steps, please do so at every opportunity. The wheelchair is a valuable tool but as Karen says, it does not need to be a final destination.
So if you still have control over your leg muscles, use them as much as possible even if you can't walk more than a few feet, still USE those legs in any way possible, whatever way possible.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/16/19 12:53 AM

I've fallen four times this month, I think two the month before. For years I've been walking a half mile twice a day trying my damndest to put this off. But this falling thing is getting to be dangerous. The least little thing happens and I'm on my face. I can't go anywhere or do anything because I'm afraid of falling. I'll keep walking as much as I can but either I'm going to need a chair or I'm going to be a shut in who never leaves his house. I wanna go downtown to the farmers market. I wanna see the local theater group perform, I wanna go out to the local festivals and food truck nights or go to a movie. All those things are impossible if I have to walk. And one of these times I'm really gonna hurt myself when I fall. Did you see Jimmy Carter's face? I don't wanna go there. Don't want a broken hip or broken wrists or a shattered knee either. I've already put this off longer than I should have.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is "old"? - 10/16/19 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger
All those things are impossible if I have to walk. And one of these times I'm really gonna hurt myself when I fall. Did you see Jimmy Carter's face? I don't wanna go there. Don't want a broken hip or broken wrists or a shattered knee either. I've already put this off longer than I should have.


I don't dispute one bit of it.
You know you best.
Is it going to be a power chair or a manual?
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: What is "old"? - 10/16/19 02:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger
I've fallen four times this month, I think two the month before. For years I've been walking a half mile twice a day trying my damndest to put this off. But this falling thing is getting to be dangerous. The least little thing happens and I'm on my face. I can't go anywhere or do anything because I'm afraid of falling. I'll keep walking as much as I can but either I'm going to need a chair or I'm going to be a shut in who never leaves his house. I wanna go downtown to the farmers market. I wanna see the local theater group perform, I wanna go out to the local festivals and food truck nights or go to a movie. All those things are impossible if I have to walk. And one of these times I'm really gonna hurt myself when I fall. Did you see Jimmy Carter's face? I don't wanna go there. Don't want a broken hip or broken wrists or a shattered knee either. I've already put this off longer than I should have.

What's your plan Greger? Hmm
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/16/19 04:09 AM

The plan, Rick, is to leave my beloved swamp and move to town. I've lived here for 40 years so it's really a difficult decision. But the kid moved out and I'm alone here now. That last fall scared the living crap out of me. I thought I'd broken my back and the phone was across the room. I had to drag myself to it on my elbows and call for help.
I couldn't get up. That's pretty helpless feeling.

The ex has a little handicap friendly house already remodeled to accommodate a cripple. It's three blocks from the historic downtown district where most of those events I listed take place. It comes with a nice power wheelchair. A dear friend of ours died before he ever got to come back home.
The manual chair is for exercise mostly. Nothing wrong with my upper body and it looks like a good core workout wheeling around in one of those. The sidewalks are all new and are wheelchair friendly so I'll be able to move about the neighborhood freely. It's four blocks from where I grew up so it'll be kind of like going back home. The city shuffleboard courts are right next door!!!

When Roscoe dies I'm outa here. Or maybe when he gets as crippled as me, it has a huge fenced back yard and I can have 5 chickens. No need to rush, but I've got to face the inevitable.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/16/19 04:22 AM

uh...roscoe aint what you'd call a city dog. He'd get us both in big trouble.
Posted by: Senator Hatrack

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 12:05 AM

You're old when you go into a room and forget why you went there. You're senile is when the room went into is the bathroom.
eek
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 03:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
You're old when you go into a room and forget why you went there.

You mean Iíve been old since I was a kid?
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 05:31 AM

My mom broke both her hips and had them redone in stainless steel, so her doc said she could never break them again. The problem is that she never did the work to get up and walk after that. Instead she got a power chair. Now at 91 she can't even stand up some of the time. She has two ladies in her assisted living place who get her into a wheelchair and take her to the bathroom or her power chair to go to the dining room.

Yesterday she wanted me to take her out shopping and to lunch. She got in my car fine, and got out at the barbeque pit, but for the life of me I couldn't get her 150 pounds back in the car after lunch. She ended up on her back on the pavement. (Very gently, of course.) A very nice lady helped me get her up in her portable wheelchair. Then I pushed her two miles back to her assisted living facility! Thank God we did not go far for lunch.

But that's only half the story: I have MS and peripheral neuropathy, so I can't feel anything below my shins. It was NOT FUN pushing her that two miles. But now I can't take her out anyplace. I have to face my own limitations. If she wants to go someplace, the facility has a bus with a wheelchair ramp.

The important takeaway, Greger, is even if you get a wheelchair for getting around easily, get a good walker and USE IT around the house. It totally sucks not to be able to stand up. Do exercises and keep your leg strength up. You can do partial squats while holding on to the walker for balance.
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 10:23 AM

Instead of a long wall of text.

Google this term senior wheelchair exercises or just click it.

As PIA said above, get out of that chair and move.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: Senator Hatrack
You're old when you go into a room and forget why you went there. You're senile is when the room went into is the bathroom.
Damn! I've been old all my life!
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 03:58 PM

Thanks, my friends, for reminding me that I'm in a pretty good place. I've got time to reorder things and work through my issues. Five things to do, today. Then five things tomorrow, and the day after that. (Wisdom from my son.) I was feeling overwhelmed. The issues are still there, but comparatively speaking, minor. Time to get to work.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 08:48 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
My mom broke both her hips and had them redone in stainless steel, so her doc said she could never break them again. The problem is that she never did the work to get up and walk after that. Instead she got a power chair. Now at 91 she can't even stand up some of the time. She has two ladies in her assisted living place who get her into a wheelchair and take her to the bathroom or her power chair to go to the dining room.

Yesterday she wanted me to take her out shopping and to lunch. She got in my car fine, and got out at the barbeque pit, but for the life of me I couldn't get her 150 pounds back in the car after lunch. She ended up on her back on the pavement. (Very gently, of course.) A very nice lady helped me get her up in her portable wheelchair. Then I pushed her two miles back to her assisted living facility! Thank God we did not go far for lunch.

But that's only half the story: I have MS and peripheral neuropathy, so I can't feel anything below my shins. It was NOT FUN pushing her that two miles. But now I can't take her out anyplace. I have to face my own limitations. If she wants to go someplace, the facility has a bus with a wheelchair ramp.

The important takeaway, Greger, is even if you get a wheelchair for getting around easily, get a good walker and USE IT around the house. It totally sucks not to be able to stand up. Do exercises and keep your leg strength up. You can do partial squats while holding on to the walker for balance.


That's what I was trying to tell him.
During the period when little Bam Bam (Daryl) was a newborn with his intense cardiac issues, Karen was still walking.
She was wobbling and walking, and then the wobbling began to take over more.

SHE SAYS:
"When I first borrowed my father's old wheelchair, I wished I'd known to get up out of it more, and I think if I had tried a little harder, I might have kept enough strength to still get up and out of it once in a while."


When I first moved in with her, in Arkansas, she was still trying to use a walker once in a while. She wishes she had used it even more.

Today Karen is like Jon's mom, cannot get up, stand or walk at all and the worst part is, her bones in her legs got so brittle she actually cannot put her weight on them anymore.

We had to get rid of her standing frame, donated it to a rehab center three miles away.

You don't want any part of that special kind of osteoporosis, more commonly known as "paralytic bone osteoporosis" because unlike Karen, you still have a lot of feeling in your legs, whereas her feeling in her legs is "muted" somewhat.
(that's the peripheral neuropathy)
So when SHE breaks a bone, it's "uncomfortable".
If YOU break a bone, it will be much more than "uncomfortable".

Take precautions, Greger...but REBEL against the chair when possible to do so safely.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 10:27 PM

Honest guys, I plan to keep walking. Mostly I don't even need a cane around the house but I won't set foot outside without one. I've got a good walker I use at night for trips to the bathroom then I push it around in the morning until things have loosened up. Then I walk the dog. Usually a half mile but the back pain is holding me back a bit right now. It's not really walking because the dog helps pull me along. Without his gentle and constant tug on the leash I couldn't do it at all. I can't really propel myself forward. Muscles have long since atrophied. I use the cane to pole myself along like a boat. Leaning to the left and right to swing my legs forward. It's pretty awkward.

It's never going to get better and will continue to get worse as I get older. But I intend to fight it every step of the way. When I move to town there will be walks around the block with two canes, trips around the block in the manual chair for a core workout, and the power chair will take me downtown. The manual chair folds up so I can toss it in the car and go down to the waterfront or out to a restaurant...Things I can't do anymore without a wheelchair. Reslly all I've been able to do for a long time is grocery shopping because shopping carts are perfect walkers for a big guy like me.
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 10:58 PM

Ol' man Greger
That ol' man Greger
He don't say nothing
But he must know something
Cause he just keeps rolling
He keeps rolling along
Rollin' along
He don't plant tators
He don't plant cotton
Them that plants 'em is soon forgotten
But ol' man Greger
He keeps rolling along
You and me
We sweat and strain
Body all aching
And wracked with pain
Tote that barge
Lift that bale
Get a little drunk
And you land in jail
I gets weary
Sick of trying
I'm tired of living
Feared of dying
But ol' man Greger
He's rolling along
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is "old"? - 10/17/19 11:56 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Usually a half mile but the back pain is holding me back a bit right now. It's not really walking because the dog helps pull me along. Without his gentle and constant tug on the leash I couldn't do it at all. I can't really propel myself forward. Muscles have long since atrophied.


Sounds like your buttocks muscles are atrophied.
By the way, that happens to a lot of old men, myself included.
But I've been doing twice daily exercises to retrain my butt muscles and I've seen positive results.

I have NEVER had a pain or discomfort of any kind in my lower back, or my arms, shoulders or upper back.
Yes, I know you hate me now, LOL.

But I've had Joe Namath's knees, hips and ankles for about a decade and in the last four years it had gotten so bad I was having difficulty hoisting myself up into Karen's handicap van and I was sweating profusely just walking from the VA S.C.I. to the VA pharmacy at the other end of the complex, even walking through air conditioned hallways.

Then I figured out that my WALKING ITSELF had atrophied. I wasn't walking the way I used to as a young man, and looking at my backside in the mirror confirmed it because my formerly firm young buns were beginning to sag!

And forcing daily exercises worked so well even Karen finally said "Nice buns" the other night.

"Really?? Are they looking good?"

"Yup, definitely gettin' there." smile


And I could FEEL the difference.
It was, if you will pardon the expression, a pain in the ass remembering to TELL MY ASS to DO ITS JOB when walking.
I had to force myself to TELL my buttock muscles to squeeze with each step.
And it worked. The pain in my knees and ankles has subsided and believe it or not even my stiff neck feels better. My hips aren't talking to me nearly as much as they used to!

And I can walk much further now, no sweating.
I just had to retrain my ASS to do its job.

I didn't realize that old men lose their ASS along with so much else!
Now that I've been put in mind of it I AM INDEED noticing that a lot of old men who have trouble walking have atrophied buns.
Some of those old guys barely have any buns at all just a flat blob with no definition.
And they are the ones who have to shuffle and push themselves along.
Their butts have just GIVEN UP somehow.

Can you still squeeze your individual butt muscles without any pain, Greger? I do that, too! I sit in this chair and squeeze my butt muscles while I am on the Rant. First one, then the other, then both at the same time, over and over again.
Posted by: logtroll

Re: What is "old"? - 10/18/19 12:42 AM

Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/18/19 01:50 AM

Glutes are going but still work, but I never had much of an ass. Quads almost gone, calf muscles useless, whatever that muscle is that hurts when you get shin splints still works. I can barely wiggle my toes so those muscles are gone. Hamstrings still work a little but all the hip and pelvic girdle muscles are mostly shot, that's why I can't pick up my feet, like to put on the brakes or step up on a curb. Spinal muscles are unaffected and everything above my hips works fine. I can't stand unsupported for more than a few minutes, but with something to lean against like a kitchen counter or a fence post I can stand for an hour or so in a pinch. Often do while gossiping with neighbors on my walks or cooking.

Y'know when the doctor taps on your knee with that little rubber hammer? How your leg jerks? Mine doesn't. Doctors get the funniest looks on their faces.

Exercise doesn't help because the muscles aren't just atrophied from lack of use, they've turned into something that isn't muscle at all.
On the plus side I can't get leg cramps anymore because those muscles aren't muscles anymore. They can't contract.

A certain amount of overall weakness is caused by my inability to do much of anything without falling down. I'm looking at a manual chair as a sort of portable gym to regain some strength I've lost in my upper body. I'm pretty excited about getting started with it.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: What is "old"? - 10/18/19 01:58 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Glutes are going but still work, but I never had much of an ass. Quads almost gone, calf muscles useless, whatever that muscle is that hurts when you get shin splints still works. I can barely wiggle my toes so those muscles are gone. Hamstrings still work a little but all the hip and pelvic girdle muscles are mostly shot, that's why I can't pick up my feet, like to put on the brakes or step up on a curb. Spinal muscles are unaffected and everything above my hips works fine. I can't stand unsupported for more than a few minutes, but with something to lean against like a kitchen counter or a fence post I can stand for an hour or so in a pinch. Often do while gossiping with neighbors on my walks or cooking.

Y'know when the doctor taps on your knee with that little rubber hammer? How your leg jerks? Mine doesn't. Doctors get the funniest looks on their faces.

Exercise doesn't help because the muscles aren't just atrophied from lack of use, they've turned into something that isn't muscle at all.
On the plus side I can't get leg cramps anymore because those muscles aren't muscles anymore. They can't contract.

A certain amount of overall weakness is caused by my inability to do much of anything without falling down. I'm looking at a manual chair as a sort of portable gym to regain some strength I've lost in my upper body. I'm pretty excited about getting started with it.


That is unusual. Not in the ordinary sense, unusual to me because I am not a doctor, thus I don't know what to make of it.
I don't want to say MS because you aren't reporting all the symptoms of MS, but it is some kind of dystrophy, just not neurological.

Use the manual chair for exercise as long as you remember to also view it as your mobility, too.

That doesn't make sense until your doctor tells you to lose the manual chair because you blew out a rotator cuff. Then it makes sense.
If you let it make sense now instead, you might not blow out your rotator cuff.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/18/19 03:32 AM

It's muscular dystrophy. Oculopharyngeal muscular dystrophy(OPMD). I had both eyelids removed some years back because I couldn't open my eyes, then for months I couldn't close my eyes. I've got a dead spot in my esophagus too, so I have to eat very carefully or I'll choke. It's a little genetic gift from some French Canadian ancestors. It's quite rare and I just happen to have a very severe case of it. Nothing at all to be done about it, no way to have prevented it, so I accept my fate and make the best of it. You can laugh or you can cry, I choose to laugh. All those things I can't do anymore? Didn't want to do them anyway.

I don't usually have any pain either, neck is fused and doesn't hurt anymore. Lower back was fused until I fell and broke it apart, in a little while it'll grow back together and the pain will go away. For now it's just raw bloody bone against raw bloody bone grinding, grinding, grinding, with every move I make.

Pain...it builds character and makes you a better person. Embrace it, accept it, learn to live with it. I have a bottle full of opioids. I won't take them.

That's degenerative disk disease, unrelated to the OPMD, more related to extreme sports and wrecking a bunch of cars. Some folks consider their bodies a temple, I treated mine like a demolition derby.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What is "old"? - 10/19/19 02:21 AM

>OPMD

That sucks. But the way I see it, nobody gets out of here alive. I'm trying to figure out why I have afferent peripheral neuropathy. My MS doc says it's not a symptom of MS. There are a few recent papers that connect it to wheat sensitivity, of all things. Strange, but true. But there are probably 100 different causes for peripheral neuropathy. I am very fortunate that I have one of the painless types, and my motor nerves work fine. Some poor saps have it where they feel a constant stabbing pain. I'm just numb and I have no leg hair from mid-shins down. That is actually a symptom of having damaged or absent skin nerves. They stuck a bunch of needles in my legs and watched electrical signals travel up my leg nerves: Myelin is damaged. That's like having bare copper without insulation inside your romex.

BTW: I always take a shopping cart in the supermarket, even if I am getting one thing. Very nice walkers!
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/19/19 03:03 AM

They should leave one beside every handicap parking space! I can wobble in with my cane but it's always a bonus when there's a cart just waiting for me. I can't use those scooter things because I always buy too many groceries to fit in one.

It's odd that I don't have neuropathy, I'm diabetic so I probably should have it but there's no pain or numbness or anything. Feet are a bit too sensitive if you ask me. I've got a bum knee from wakeboarding and a hip I nearly ripped apart when a ski tip caught a bush while I was glade skiing in Utah. Liked to have left that leg up on the mountain while the rest of me headed down. But I can't be on my feet enough for those to ever be a problem.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: What is "old"? - 10/23/19 11:57 PM

Aldi's market is interesting: It costs a quarter to get a cart from the row of carts by the door. When you are done with it, you can put it back in the row and get your quarter back. Very German! Everybody gets a quarter to be socially responsible. Leave it to us Americans, though. We buy a cart in the parking lot by giving the former user a quarter and wheeling it in.

It also allows for charity. You can just leave your cart in the parking lot and bums will take it back for the quarter.
Posted by: Greger

Re: What is "old"? - 10/24/19 12:30 AM

We don't have a lot of bums, it's usually neighborhood kids that offer to take your cart back for you. Since walking is a major concern for me I'm glad to give them the quarter.