Let us now praise heinous men

Posted by: chunkstyle

Let us now praise heinous men - 12/26/18 04:46 PM

You all know the saying about broken clocks being right once in a while. Stacking on another irony on an already towering pile is Trump actually doing something humane and sensible.
Chiefly, pulling us out of a place we shouldn't have been in in the first place.
The libtards and neocons are going nuts so it's reassuring the president is on the right path with this one no matter how much huffing and puffing from MM pundits..

A good peice from R.S: Ending the perpetual war
Posted by: Greger

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/26/18 05:54 PM

Broken clocks are right twice a day. Trump hasn't yet achieved near that sort of consistency.

Ostensibly, the Syrian War has kept ISIS tied up in one place, keeping the fire from spreading so to speak. So, strategically, pulling out is a bad idea. Donald Trump has no concept of military strategy, foriegn diplomacy, domestic affairs, economic realities or anything else involved in governing.

He watches FOX News and does whatever the talking heads want him to do at any given moment. He didn't discuss the pullout with his advisers(hence the Mattis resignation) he didn't take it up with Congress, he didn't even announce it through regular channels but Tweeted out his intentions.

So, yeah, while I'm all for pulling troops out of stupid wars it probably means that a little further down the road more troops, more treasure and more lives will be wasted because of another numbskull move on the part of our president.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/26/18 06:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger

Ostensibly, the Syrian War has kept ISIS tied up in one place, keeping the fire from spreading so to speak. So, strategically, pulling out is a bad idea. Donald Trump has no concept of military strategy, foriegn diplomacy, domestic affairs, economic realities or anything else involved in governing.



And here I thought the destabilization of the Assad Regime caused a power vacuum for ISIS to exploit in large areas of Syria. All Bush's fault and having nothing to do with Clinton/Obama's involvement.

I have no doubt that POTUS is tweeting a withdrawal for all the wrong reasons, if any at all, but the fact remains that no one can reasonably explain what were doing over there anymore or who it's benefiting. Donor class excepted.

I think the biggest fear for the center right and hard right parties would be if peace should break out.

Imagine!
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/26/18 08:47 PM

I think we owe the Syrian Kurds something for all their fighting ISIS. We probably should relocate them all to Kurdistan so Turkey doesn't come in and murder them all. Just a thought. Of course, then we have Turkey (our NATO ally) duking it out with Russia, which has a very bad potential outcome.
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 12:46 PM

The Montagynards did for us in Vietnam what the Kurds have done for us in Syria. What makes anybody think we won't do the same thing to the Kurds as we did to the Montagynards.

Yes, we OWE the Kurds and should bring them here!
Posted by: Greger

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 04:19 PM

Last I heard Trump was deporting Vietnamese people. At this point in time Kurds might as well cut their own throats as expect help from fascist America.
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 09:23 PM

Yea, President Donald (The Vietnam Coward) Trump is turning on Vietnam refugees. By the time the Kurds could get here he'll be gone, whether by mother nature or repudiation.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 09:38 PM

I'll be totally honest...I am more than a little bit conflicted on this because on the one hand, it is indeed high time we got the Hell out of the Middle East, because nothing we have done has accomplished much other than hurting ISIS or delivering brutal dictators to their end, but in the aftermath what we allowed to happen afterward might have even been worse for the societies involved.

On the other hand, we are leaving at the worst possible time. This is absolutely a big gift wrapped present to Erdogan and Putin both, and we are rewarding the Kurdish people with a kick in the teeth after they helped us countless times. And giving Syria to Vladimir Putin is inexcusable.
And I cannot put away my suspicions that this is something Trump is doing to curry favor with the Putin regime, otherwise he would have zero motivation to do it.
Add to that the fact that almost the ENTIRE State and Defense community is slack jawed with horror at the move, and so are many of our allies in the outside world. Those are big red flags. Something isn't passing the smell test for them, so it's not passing the smell test for me either.
And bear in mind, it's not just people on the Left, it's almost universal on both sides of the spectrum.

Mattis is a hardcore conservative. As a liberal, I am supposed to hate him, right?
Surprise, I might not agree with some of his values but as a military man I have always respected him very much.
Mad Dog Mattis is the kind of guy you can rely on, or at least he always used to be.
So when Mad Dog isn't happy, nobody should be. The guy is a bonafide war hero, a standup man in uniform.

In the end, a large part of me is convinced that Trump wants to create conditions amenable to another attack on US soil, so he can start a brand new war to cement his lock on power.
This latest pullout stunt, ill timed and gift wrapped as it is, might be precisely what he needs.
And don't forget, one Erik Prince awaits in Dubai, salivating over the prospect of Trump privatizing both conflicts, which would give Prince the money he needs to raise a mighty mercenary army, one possibly even capable of attempting a military coup right here.

Can't happen here? Famous last words. This is Trump we're talking about.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 10:24 PM

From what I've read about the Kurds, they would do just fine if we carved out the three Northernmost provinces of Iraq and sign it over to a Kurdish State.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 10:28 PM

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
...And here I thought the destabilization of the Assad Regime caused a power vacuum for ISIS to exploit in large areas of Syria. All Bush's fault and having nothing to do with Clinton/Obama's involvement.

W broke the middle east when he ordered a war of convenience, and then L Paul Bremmer fired all of the Iraqi police and soldiers three months after the U.S. invaded Iraq in March 2003 took away their livelihood as Coalition Provisional Authority Order 2.

Those bitter, broken, tactically-trained men didn't go open falafel carts - they became ISIS.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 10:31 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
I think we owe the Syrian Kurds something for all their fighting ISIS. We probably should relocate them all to Kurdistan so Turkey doesn't come in and murder them all. Just a thought. Of course, then we have Turkey (our NATO ally) duking it out with Russia, which has a very bad potential outcome.

Bow
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 10:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
...we are leaving at the worst possible time. This is absolutely a big gift wrapped present to Erdogan and Putin both...

Yup. Hmm
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/27/18 10:34 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
From what I've read about the Kurds, they would do just fine if we carved out the three Northernmost provinces of Iraq and sign it over to a Kurdish State.

smile , ThumbsUp
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/29/18 01:51 PM

What worries me is the future of the Northern Federation of Syria. A true threat to any regime in the region by its own example of liberty (though not perfect) and egalitarianism. Heck, it might even threaten the american Oligarchy by example.
I hate the ruling class empire that we shower so much money on more though. I wonder what will become of all the international anarchist fighters in the region.
Posted by: Ujest Shurly

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/29/18 02:07 PM

As long as the Kurds DO NOT become a nation they will survive as a people. Iran, Iraq and Turkey do not want the Kurdish people to carve out a nation again.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/29/18 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
As long as the Kurds DO NOT become a nation they will survive as a people. Iran, Iraq and Turkey do not want the Kurdish people to carve out a nation again.


How lovely, that the Iranians, Iraqis and Turks have so much influence in the Kurds and their efforts at self-determination. (sarcasm detected)

At least in the case of Iraq, it's their country.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 12/29/18 07:24 PM

The entire history of the middle East is one of conquest and artificial constructs. The Kurds were deliberately divided into several countries to dilute their influence. The consequences should have been foreseeable.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 01/04/19 02:53 AM

A timely article from a defector of the imperial news complex. My wife and I haven't watch TV since the analog signal was retired. Relying instead on print media and innerwebs.
I Don't know Bill Arkins work nor seen him on TV but his awareness of the contradictions of our politics and foriegn policy felt familiar to my own. The reactionary attitudes of the #resistance Dems who seem to have abanded any coherent political philosophy in favor of a reactionary group herding.
So it was a suprise to read Mr. Arkins letter of resignation from NBC. Criticizing the selling of perpetual war and leveraging animosity of its viewers towards the POTUS in that effort:


"For me I realized how out of step I was when I looked at Trump's various bumbling intuitions: his desire to improve relations with Russia, to denuclearize North Korea, to get out of the Middle East, to question why we are fighting in Africa, even in his attacks on the intelligence community and the FBI. Of course he is an ignorant and incompetent impostor. And yet I'm alarmed at how quick NBC is to mechanically argue the contrary, to be in favor of policies that just spell more conflict and more war. Really? We shouldn't get out Syria? We shouldn't go for the bold move of denuclearizing the Korean peninsula? Even on Russia, though we should be concerned about the brittleness of our democracy that it is so vulnerable to manipulation, do we really yearn for the Cold War? And don't even get me started with the FBI: What? We now lionize this historically destructive institution?"
Full Article

Any who. Akins will probably be gone and forgotten by the morning news cycle. If he manages to stay visible my guess is he'd be loathed and despised by the resistance types.
Were all trapped in an old reprobate's dying brain and the contradictions keep piling up.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Let us now praise heinous men - 01/04/19 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
A timely article from a defector of the imperial news complex. My wife and I haven't watch TV since the analog signal was retired. Relying instead on print media and innerwebs.
I Don't know Bill Arkins work nor seen him on TV but his awareness of the contradictions of our politics and foriegn policy felt familiar to my own. The reactionary attitudes of the #resistance Dems who seem to have abanded any coherent political philosophy in favor of a reactionary group herding.
So it was a suprise to read Mr. Arkins letter of resignation from NBC. Criticizing the selling of perpetual war and leveraging animosity of its viewers towards the POTUS in that effort:


"For me I realized how out of step I was when I looked at Trump's various bumbling intuitions: his desire to improve relations with Russia, to denuclearize North Korea, to get out of the Middle East, to question why we are fighting in Africa, even in his attacks on the intelligence community and the FBI. Of course he is an ignorant and incompetent impostor. And yet I'm alarmed at how quick NBC is to mechanically argue the contrary, to be in favor of policies that just spell more conflict and more war. Really? We shouldn't get out Syria? We shouldn't go for the bold move of denuclearizing the Korean peninsula? Even on Russia, though we should be concerned about the brittleness of our democracy that it is so vulnerable to manipulation, do we really yearn for the Cold War? And don't even get me started with the FBI: What? We now lionize this historically destructive institution?"
Full Article

Any who. Akins will probably be gone and forgotten by the morning news cycle. If he manages to stay visible my guess is he'd be loathed and despised by the resistance types.
Were all trapped in an old reprobate's dying brain and the contradictions keep piling up.



He is spot on. Don't forget, Dick Cheney sat there on Meet the Press and, without batting an eye, lustily intoned that he foresaw our war theater in Iraq lasting "as long as seventy years."
That was in 2004.

Permanent war and permanent debt? Yeah, absolutely.
Wars are no longer fought to be won, they are now "managed conflicts" designed to lock down power and create profit.
You don't WIN a war, dammit...you just killed the money machine, you manage it.
You don't CURE disease, that isn't profitable. You manage the symptoms.
You don't CURE ignorance with education. Fer God's sake, now you just created a generation of people who ask too many questions.
You MANAGE ignorance with a lot of very profitable PRISONS.

See how that works?