The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has

Posted by: NW Ponderer

The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/02/19 11:49 PM

Or will, pay for it...

Yeah, sure.

Has the Border Wall Begun? (Factcheck.org)
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/03/19 02:08 AM

I'm not sure on what Trump's Great Wall accomplishes that the existing steel barrier does not. You can't drive through either, though you can drive through the hundreds of miles with no fence at all. You can scale either one. You can put a ladder up and let people down the US side with a rope. That seems like either one is very easily defeated.

In fact, the comb-like steel slats could be opened with a 24 inch gap with one small thermite charge. Put a few cardboard boxes around it and nobody would notice. That's just made from aluminum powder and rust, so it's available to pretty much anybody who wants to melt some steel.

You can also tunnel underneath, which has been done for decades. But really, most undocumented people came here with a legitimate visa, and just overstayed. What is a wall supposed to do about them?
Posted by: logtroll

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/03/19 10:30 AM

First it was a wall...
Then it was a fence...
Now it is a metaphor.

As a metaphor, does it really need funding?
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/03/19 04:55 PM

I love when Trump tweets directly contradictory messages seriatim. First, they are doing a great job at the border; then, they need a new, beautiful wall; then it's a real boy wall; no, it's "slats"; then it's been built and it's already working... Mexico's paying for it, but we need to fund it first...
Posted by: rporter314

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/03/19 08:24 PM

When Mexico pays for it, a big beautiful wall will be erected in Mr Trump's "honor"
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/04/19 02:01 AM

Actually, the Pay-Go policy the House adopted today is an assault on The Wall: If they want a wall, the government has to raise the taxes to pay for it.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/04/19 02:17 AM

I think that is precisely what Mr Trump did not say but certainly implied i.e. the revenues from the new trade arrangement would generate more profits for American companies (and obviously he meant more than the tax cut reduction) which would be taxed in the normal course of taxation and thereby etc etc including being appropriated by the House.

First the new trade agreement has not been ratified (and I suppose there is a chance it would not be), second, I am not convinced even if it was ratified there would be an increase in revenues, and third, if it were true there was increased revenues, I am not convinced it would be more than the tax benefits these companies enjoyed previously, which of course would mean an actual and real tax increase on people.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/06/19 06:14 AM

What will the next shutdown be about?

The moment the Dems give Twumpy his boner jam on "border security" which we know is a euphemism for his wall which will never be built, he will call it a win, and his "greek chorus" will taunt him and question his manhood and egg him on to take another hostage, and another, and another, and another...because it's like teenage males and masturbation.

Why do I say that? Because just getting that one chubby and one happy ending means he's going to want to play with his new toy as much as possible, and if he doesn't, his hate radio and Fox News peanut gallery will impugn his cocksmanship.

Obviously the next hostage taking and shutdown will be about something very important, like that public ass licking ceremony known as a parade. You don't think he forgot about that, did you?
Once he's declared victory on his nonexistent wall that only Twumpians can see, he's going to demand that parade.
The world doesn't respect us (HIM) enough, the parade is YUGE important!

Or maybe declaring Putin's birthday a national holiday?
His base would love that almost as much. Or maybe his bust carved into Mount Trumpmore, (which BTW "is already under construction and NOBODY has ever seen anything like it", but it will need funds and warrant a shutdown too)

It's gonna be YUGE.

Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/07/19 04:22 AM

Fox’s Chris Wallace challenges Sarah Sanders on claim terrorists enter at southern border (The Hill). Even conservative journalists don't like to be lied to.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/07/19 07:49 PM

Trump likes crises because it distracts and doesn't have to correlate with reality. Republican s like them for much the same reasons, so, in that regard, he is a "typical Republican". So, what's really going on?

Mueller.

Since we're talking about the shutdown, people aren't talking about the crimes at the center of the Trump administration. This provides a myriad of distractions: disputes over facts, border wall, immigration, human rights, national security. Just like the sudden withdrawal from Syria, it's not about policy, it's about changing the subject. Keeping the focus on Trump (and his ginormous ego), and not on Mueller, or the Russians, or debates over treason, or impeachment. We'll get there - and them he'll create some new faux crisis.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/07/19 08:02 PM

Trump Wall Prototype Falls Down:
Click to reveal..
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/08/19 07:09 PM

The government shutdown is starting to affect air travel. All TSA employees and air traffic controllers are essential but unpaid. That means they don't have money for bills, mortgages, child care, etc. If the shutdown continues, they have to find other work that pays. TSA workers in particular, are not even paid the standard government employee rates so it's not likely they have piles of savings sitting around drawing interest.

No TSA inspectors? No airline flights. Trump will have shut down the entire industry! Which means most Congressmen can't travel. Most businessmen can't travel. The airlines operate on a thin margin so they are that close to bankruptcy. Trump has crippled the nation. That's when Senate Republicans start threatening McConnell with loss of leadership if he won't let them vote on the CR.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/08/19 08:23 PM

Considering the fact that, as of 2018, the TSA's astonishing 70% failure rate is considered an "improvement", I think we're looking at a dysfunctional agency to begin with, not really doing a job that law enforcement used to do a lot better.

Like ICE, it is a dysfunctional agency with a dysfunctional and conflicted mandate.
Posted by: jgw

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/08/19 08:33 PM

A thought. The TSA was created, by Bush Jr. This happened, after 911, because the airlines did such a terrible job of air security. The fact is, however, that the airlines really didn't do all that bad of a job and the real problem was that the rules set by gov were simply not good enough. An example is the locking of the plane cockpit. Had this been done then 911 would never have taken place. That was the first suggestion of the committee that studied plane hijacks during the Nixon administration. Had all the suggestions of that committee been accomplished we would simply not be where we are now.

Now we have the TSA. To my knowledge the TSA has yet to pass a simple test of how well they find bad things being taken on flights. The TSA also, now, has more people in administration than the entire TSA a year after it was formed. (a good example of a bureaucracy run amuck). Throw in the fact that a previous head of the TSA sold an entire warehouse full of x-ray machines that didn't even all work and the problems with the TSA just continue. Now, to seal the deal, we have a president who has decided not to pay TSA folk but force them to work anyway, ie. work without being paid.

The simple fact is that politics have overcome all hurdles, on all sides, to become what runs gov. Here is a description of what politics are:
Politics is the process of making decisions that apply to members of a group. It refers to achieving and exercising positions of governance—organized control over a human community, particularly a state. Wikipedia

I find this very strange indeed. I used to consider politics to be the debate within and between differing groups within political parties whilst governance was between those who won the election and were dedicated to the betterment of the nation and its citizens. These are, in my own mind, two different, and quite distinct, outlooks on it all. I have no problem with the aforementioned wikipedia description of what politics are right now but not as I would prefer.

I keep on beating the same old drum. We a binary for of government, two sides. Each side is comprised of folks who, in general, agree with each other. They do battle regularly to see which group is in charge. One side basically believes that people need to be regulated or they tend to go off in the wrong direction (regulation is a necessary part of gov). The other side believes that Regulation is simply bad and takes the ability of the citizen to make the right decision, ie. takes away the rights of the individual). The theory was that both groups would work together, with each other, to legislate how gov should work. Neither side gets everything they want and the result is what they can both agree to. This automatically sets the results to much less than one side getting everything they want. Now everything is upside down. Neither side seems to have beliefs and targets that have ANYTHING to do with what the other side might want and each side despises members of the opposition. So, basically, our so called system is boiled down to still having 2 sides but neither side has anything to do with the other side. I can keep on talking about this but why bother? We are now at war with one another, to one degree or another and all the participants seem happy with that status.

Sorry, its just not working! If we keep this up there is only one result. We used to talk about 3rd world places where this was the status quo - now, however, WE are setting new record of silly. When I grew up I was taught that there are some things that would never be any of my business when it comes to other citizens. Another's politics, religion, sexual preferences, etc. are, basically, none of my business. Now, however, all these things seem to be everybody's business. In other words we have managed to get to a place where there is no privacy and everybody must know everything about everybody.

I know, its old fashioned, but I remain convinced that anybody's religion, politics, sexual preferences, etc. are simply none of my business. If anybody that I don't know, wants to tell me about their preferences, I tend to tell them that is none of my business and I really can live without that info. The best thing that happens, when I do that, is the utter confusion the teller displays - its priceless (for me). I also find it interesting that most of the people who want others to know these things fall into two categories, politics or religion.

Anyway, I just thought I would weigh in on this stuff (even though it don' have much to do with walls and things <G>)
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: The wall, or fence, has been, or is being, or needs to be, built, and Mexico has - 01/08/19 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By: jgw
If we keep this up there is only one result. We used to talk about 3rd world places where this was the status quo - now, however, WE are setting new record of silly.



That inevitable result you speak of is much to the delight of at least one hostile adversary, who has "bet" what might just be "the farm" in assuring such a result, which would be to their advantage.

We are indeed that third world nation now.
But back to the hidden sub-plot. That hostile adversary has decided to bet their future on us falling apart. Has anybody even really noticed this?