congress and the administration

Posted by: jgw

congress and the administration - 04/30/19 12:23 AM

I can be completely wrong about this one but thought I would mention it. Congress is having problems getting information that they think they are entitled to and the administration doesn't. This seems very simple to me. So simple, in fact, that I am beginning to wonder what the Democratic house is actually doing.

They have asked, and subpoenaed information from the Whitehouse. The Whitehouse has responded that they do not have to give them said information. In a situation wherein one leg of government has a problem with the other. In such situations I think that the congress, for instance, can go directly to the supremes which have the capacity, and the duty, to clearly state just what rights each side has, and what they do not have.

Instead, all the talking heads of tv say that the Whitehouse can keep this in courts forever. If I am right then the Democratic House folk are just spinning their wheels whilst whining about Jackass and the Whitehouse. This seems a complete waste of time AND a constitutional problem. What they should do, right now, is goto the Supremes and let them settle this thing! This is one of the reasons the Supremes exist!

My suspicion is that the House may be convinced that Jackass has packed the Supremes. If this is true then they will find out if this is true or not. Pussyfooting around the problem accomplishes nothing!

THE DEMOCRATS SHOULD GET ON WITH IT!!!!
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/01/19 06:55 AM

It might be more useful in terms of 2020 voting NOT to get on with it. The American public has no long term memory, and very poor short term memory as well. They may need to be reminded constantly that Trump is trying to act like a dictator instead of a president, and that the Congressional Republicans are accessories after the fact. Of course, all this legal maneuvering can only last until Trump leaves office. Then every thing comes out and charges get filed.

I really think loss to a Democrat will mean Trump flees to a non-extradition country at the end.

Meanwhile, I think it would be funny if the House committees start jailing Trump department heads for Contempt of Congress. I think they could do that with the head of the IRS right now. Then the second in command when he refuses their tax forms request, and so forth until they get to somebody who will comply with the law. That would be very newsworthy and ultimately humiliating for Trump.

A little free advice for Mnuchin and Rettig: Your nuts are in the vise. But in the future, it will be far better to be known as somebody who got fired because he would not break the law for Trump, than to be known as a Trump toady who went to jail for him.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 05/01/19 03:32 PM

Quote:
My suspicion is that the House may be convinced that Jackass has packed the Supremes.


"Packing" the court means adding extra members. FDR tried it in 1937 but I don't think it worked out. A conservative majority is not a "packed" court. There were some rumors that Democrats were considering adding more members to offset the current conservative majority.

It's not liable to happen.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: congress and the administration - 05/01/19 04:26 PM

While it is true the phrase packing the court means adding members to court, I have always thought the better understanding is to change the political complexion of the court. In Pres FDR's case, he wanted loyalists to judicially support his policy initiatives. In like manner I would consider the Republican efforts to alter a politically balanced SC as packing the court with very conservative members, who would support radical changes of the very conservative Republican social agenda and who would support deconstructing the federal government vis a vis entitlement programs.

One more SCJ and Mr Trump could unilaterally dissolve Congress and the SC would uphold his actions (typing hyperbolicly of course). If that wouldn't be the result of a packed court I don't know what would be.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/01/19 06:23 PM

Sorry, I am just getting sick and tired of all the breast beating, complaining, accusals, etc. when it comes to the administration and the other branches of government. Its time somebody gets the supremes, the last word in things constitutional, to define just what each part of government gets to do what, insofar as the constitution is concerned. I think we had all thought this had been decided but Jackass has so clouded the whole works that its time for clear references. I know, I have read the constitution has many have and it seems pretty clear but, obviously, its not so its all up in the air. Not a good thing, I think......

I don't believe that getting it all packed into a law suit, or even multiple law suits, and then running said suits though the courts for years is, exactly, clearing the air at all. Its really time for the supremes to weigh in and setting the entire mess.

I have always believed that "packing" the supreme court means appointing judges that all agree on what part of the political scene they are on. So far, as far as I know, this has not happened and there is currently no evidence of that happening now. There are, however, folks who believe it to be true right now. So, as far as I am concerned its time for them to weigh in.

The nation has had this stuff looming for several years and there are a lot of folks making claims.

ITS TIME!
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/01/19 07:20 PM

Trump thinks he owns the Supreme Court because it has a thin majority of conservative justices, but Trump believes a lot of things that are not true. He probably has one or two justices on the court, in the form of Thomas and Kavenaugh. The rest are not Trump judges, as evidenced by Roberts voting to keep the ACA when that issue came to court. Even Gorsuch is not a Trump guy, but rather a conservative. Conservatives believe in things like precedence, the rule of law, the Constitution, and not generating a huge legal mess with there decisions.

Any court decisions about Congress overseeing or impeaching the President are very likely to be constitutional, rather than supporting a dictatorship. They could actually be 9:0 if somebody is off the sauce that day. These guys serve for life: Trump will be gone soon. They have to think in the long term. That's why SC justices commonly disappoint the Presidents who nominated them.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: congress and the administration - 05/02/19 05:35 AM

I think Elijah Cummings is playing this right: Trump sues Cummings, says he's ignored &...estigate" (CBS). Trump and the White House are in full-blown stonewall mode, and Rep. Cummings says he's going to wait until there is a court order to proceed. He'll get the court order, as the legal precedents are crystal clear. Once he has that precedent, it will be used for all of the other subpoena cases. That's smart. Let one court handle it, then the other judges will follow suit. This is Trump's weakest claim, so it is good that it is first out the door.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/02/19 05:58 PM

This morning the Democrats are in full whine mode. Barr lied! Barr ignored us! What are we going to do? Pretty soon we are going to subpoena (whoever). Eventually we may actually charge somebody with something.... (a very long list of upset)

I wonder if anybody but me actually even gives a damn. I guess its important, to the congressional Democrats, that all this stuff is going on. What I don't see is the Democrats actually doing something. Somebody lied to congress? Oh, well, we will tell everybody the bad thing tney did. Its all, apparently, about how unfair they are treated. I would love to see, however, the Democrats actually doing something, besides exercising their mouths. If somebody lies to congress then they should be charged! (I assume that is against the law?) Barr. for instance, has done it several times and, again apparently, instead of charging the liar they have decided to threaten, ie. he skates yet again. They are very good at threatening. The problem is that when you do that more than once its a complete waste of time. They subpoena somebody, they don't show, the Democratic response is to be outraged, threaten, threaten again one more time for exercise, and then something like; "I guess that will show him/her/it".

I really hope this is not a preview of how they will behave if they should actually beat Jackass and take over. Even that, however, is up in the air.

<sigh>
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: congress and the administration - 05/02/19 06:22 PM

Originally Posted By: jgw
This morning the Democrats are in full whine mode. Barr lied! Barr ignored us! What are we going to do? Pretty soon we are going to subpoena (whoever). Eventually we may actually charge somebody with something.... (a very long list of upset)

I wonder if anybody but me actually even gives a damn. I guess its important, to the congressional Democrats, that all this stuff is going on. What I don't see is the Democrats actually doing something. Somebody lied to congress? Oh, well, we will tell everybody the bad thing tney did. Its all, apparently, about how unfair they are treated. I would love to see, however, the Democrats actually doing something, besides exercising their mouths. If somebody lies to congress then they should be charged! (I assume that is against the law?) Barr. for instance, has done it several times and, again apparently, instead of charging the liar they have decided to threaten, ie. he skates yet again. They are very good at threatening. The problem is that when you do that more than once its a complete waste of time. They subpoena somebody, they don't show, the Democratic response is to be outraged, threaten, threaten again one more time for exercise, and then something like; "I guess that will show him/her/it".

I really hope this is not a preview of how they will behave if they should actually beat Jackass and take over. Even that, however, is up in the air.

<sigh>


I got nothing to say, other than, well said. ThumbsUp
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/03/19 07:59 PM

I also noticed that the Republicans have now joined Jackass in the ongoing plans to investigate Hillary. I did not notice a single Democrat mentioning that, as far as I can tell, the congress has, over the years, spent at least 100 MILLION dollars investigating the Clinton's - to no avail. https://www.newstalkflorida.com/featured/gops-fear-loathing-hillary-clinton-cost-100-million/ (more like this!)

One would think that at least one Democrat would have mentioned this but, of course, they didn't. Obviously they really do not want to upset their Republican friends. I would point out in passing that these are the same Democrats planning on beating Jackass next year. I think they must have a secret plan to only be unveiled about 8 months from now. Until then they just plan to bravely get beat up, in any confrontation with their Republican friends, so everybody will know they are victims of those meanies.

Kinda makes my heart beat a little faster............
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/04/19 03:53 AM

There is a process, and that process takes time. If you rush into things, when it ends up in court you lose. If they ask Barr to come testify and he ignores them, they can issue as subpoena and when the administration takes that to court the Democrats are in a much stronger legal position because they followed the process.

Your impatience with the process does not mean they are doing nothing.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/04/19 07:50 PM

I tend to doubt the process thing although, if true, it gets pretty strange. Pelosi got on tv to announce "he lied and broke the law" (forget the exact words). She did, however, say it was a crime. This is like a cop catching somebody breaking the law and saying to the miscreant "you broke the law, have a nice day". We were also gifted with Nadlers efforts. He asked Barr to come and testify and Barr declined (he waited a week for a response), then he subpoenaed Barr and Barr ignored him (he waited another week then threatened to have a hearing to hold him in contempt if he doesn't respond in another week). I can't wait to see what's next, its kinda like a train that is almost out of the station but not really. (I may also have added a week that wasn't true).

Anyway, apparently the House Dems are planning to do something like this with every one of their possible charges (there are many). This means that, apparently they are going to move, clearly and bravely, to have a genuine pile of law suits. This shouldn't take much over 2 years in which case its all going to be moot or a complete disaster.

I am having a real problem with this stuff. As far as I can tell the problem is that the Administration has decided that certain congressional rights can be ignored just because. There has been a lot of talk about "constitutional crises" by talking heads. I actually don't really understand it all. However, it seems to be that this just may be an instance of that. If so, and the Dems are not just exercising their jaws, nor is jackass, then what we seem to have is just that - a constitutional crisis. Since the house Democrats seem to be the ones with the problem I would think that they could list the problems and file something with the Supreme court that could, then, state clearly just what rights the congress has in these instances.

I think the 'problem' might be that both houses of congress might have to agree to this. I actually have no idea. In either case I think that somebody should make this stuff clear so we will know who is spinning their wheels and who is actually doing something. Right now, apparently, the House Dems can, for instance charge a member of the adminstration with lying, or charge a me ber of the administration with contempt. The problem there, is that then the Justice Department takes over and the current AG has made it pretty clear is that such will go no further.

Anyway, we seem to have a genuine mess that is not going to be solved without the Supreme Court stepping up and giving guidance. As far as I can see its the only game in town that's likely to work?
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 05/04/19 10:18 PM

SCOTUS doesn't just "step up" and do things.

It has to come up through the lower courts first.

And I wouldn't be real anxious to drag Trump issues before the current conservative Supreme Court. They might not rule the way we think they should.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/05/19 04:04 AM

The House committee heads have to power to charge someone with Contempt of Congress. They don't need Senate input, and they don't even need a whole House vote. They can send the House Sergeant at Arms to arrest that person and imprison them. They decide when to let that person go, but the contempt charge would expire December 31st 2020, when the current Congress ends. They can also impose any fine they care to, including a fine per day for failure to appear. This contempt charge is not subject to a Presidential pardon.

The only problem is they don't actually have a jail! But I'm sure they could contract with one of our many private prison companies. I strongly suggest they start using that power, or else Trump is just going to continue on his path to dictatorship. Some suggestions? All of Trump's White House staff and cabinet officers. Also his kids. Let's see how he likes sitting there in the White House all alone.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/06/19 07:47 PM

As far as I can tell if the house jerks the administration into court, and the house doesn't like the decision of the court, then the house can go direction to the supreme court. I am not convinced that the congress can't go directly to the supremes with a request either. The Supremes then can take the case not not. Its more likely they would than wouldn't. There was a recent case wherein a lower federal court took a case and fast tracked it notifying parties it was ready, right now, to hear that case. My point is that if the house is going to do it then they should get on with it. The argument that the Supremes are too too political, in one direction or the other, doesn't mean they shouldn't try as that would settle much all by itself.

I just read someplace that if the congress convicts of contempt then they can sentence to a federal prison for 1 year and levy a 100,000.00 fine on the miscreant.

Right now the house is simply blowing a lot of smoke (actually for almost the last 2 weeks). Its REALLY time they fish or cut bait. Their actions tend to suggest they have the authority and the right and that needs to be settled as quickly as possible. If they don't then they will be seen as bloviating weenies. As far as I am concerned they are verging on that one right now.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/08/19 06:16 AM

On Wednesday, the New York assembly will vote on a bill requiring the state tax authority to supply the state tax returns of any individual to three US House committees upon request. The bill's author says he has the votes in the mostly Democratic state assembly, and the governor says he will sign the bill into law. In New York, you have to include a copy of your federal return as part of your state return, so the three committees will be getting state and federal returns. The state of New York keeps returns for 10 years.

So fat-ass and all those Republicans who go on the news saying the Democrats will never get Trump's returns can go pound sand. This is the gigantic flaw in the Trump strategy: He lived and did business in a very Democratic state and most New Yorkers know he is a con man. I expect the state of New York will be doing much worse to Trump. They are not bound by a Justice Department opinion.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/08/19 05:40 PM

When that happens its gonna get interesting real quick. They will actually have to go back more than 8 years to see the Russian infusion of big bucks. After that he will be done. I am also counting on what I consider a simple fact - Jackass is not the brightest mind out there.

My fond hope is that they nail him big time, with facts. There are already several folks wondering what country, without extradition treaties, he will try to escape to in an effort to escape prison.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/12/19 07:27 AM

Argentina is pretty nice: My old neighbors moved there and bought a vineyard. Pretty cool if you have enough money to buy an estate and staff it. Good political climate for old Nazis and such right wing folks. No history of socialism. Much better climate than Russia. Lots of Italians, so decent food.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/13/19 07:00 PM

Apparently the house can also actually fine somebody up to 25,000.00 per day. That might get somebody's attention. There is growing belief that the house is going to stop playing nice. They can also send out the Sergeant of Arms, with the capital police and also use the capital prison facilities.

All in all they have the law on their side to do these things and don't need to deal with the law, other than their own bestowed by the constitution. I am not even sure, unless the administration went directly to the supremes, that the courts would even be able to do anything against congress.

Probably wrong, not a law dog............
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: congress and the administration - 05/16/19 07:06 AM

Our first indication of whether the courts stool function will come this or next week, when Judge Mehta rules on Trump's ridiculous claim made in court yesterday that the President is not subject to law. No, seriously, that what they said. Then, today, White House counsel rejects Democratic efforts to investigate Trump (CBS). The full letter is available here. It is utterly appalling.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: congress and the administration - 05/16/19 02:04 PM

I guess you didn't get the tweet ... Mr Trump is above the law ... so says he and AG Barr

I am the law - Mr Trump
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/16/19 08:53 PM

I see that Rep Nadler is scaring everybody again. This time he really means business. How does it go? "Sound and fury Signifying nothing" is pretty close. Apparently he could send the Sargeant of Arms, with a couple of capital police to arrest the miscreants but, er, well, not right now? He can also levy fines - well, if its the right thing to do. As far as jail goes the capital police have a place and the capital police, in the end work for congress.

I just keep beating this dead old horse. I actually boring myself! The senate has allowed the president to work around the advise and consent thing with 'acting' heads. The house has something like 20 investigations going on but can't get anybody to give testimony because, I guess, they are determined to talk it all to death. One would think that either the senate or the house would at least try to follow the constitution. the congress has duties and rights right there in the constitution. If they want a tax return they can subpoena it and then, if not complied with, arrest and charge the miscreant with Contempt if Congress then fine and imprison the miscreant. The constitution says that when asked they SHALL provide the tax return. There are no time limits, SHALL is the word. There is nothing about going to court, nothing about asking nice, the congress has the right to do this, its in black and white.

I know, this old horse is beat to death, but, still. One branch is simply saying no and the congress seems dumb struck about doing anything more than continuing to whine. If this is the mighty Democratic party at work, and they think they are going to beat Jackass they are sadly mistaken. I have often wished that some of the Republicans would show some backbone. I now wish that the Democrats could do the same. Seems to me that both parties are working, very hard, to give the administration what little power they have left and to make Jackass the ruler of the land and I am dumbfounded.

Well, maybe in a week, month or year from now the Dems might do something besides whine a lot?

What in the HELL is going on!
Posted by: rporter314

Re: congress and the administration - 05/16/19 10:29 PM

are you trying to say Mr Trump has effectively dissolved Congress?

That would mean he is dictator.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/17/19 06:17 PM

Nope, just cut off their balls and moved on to bigger and greater pronouncements of alternative truths. The congress can still act but, so far...................

At least the courts seem to be standing up. Now we all get to see what the Supremes do ......
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 05/17/19 11:02 PM

Quote:
That would mean he is dictator.


That would be a safe assumption.

He governs by decree and pays no attention to congress at all.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/21/19 01:28 AM

Judge Rules Against Trump on Financial Records

Quote:
U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta, who was appointed by President Barack Obama, said Trump cannot block a House subpoena of financial records. He said the Democratic-led House committee seeking the information has said it believes the documents would help lawmakers consider strengthening ethics and disclosure laws, among other things.


Tick Tock, the clock is ticking. Every BS move the White House makes is going to court, and when it gets there federal judges base all their decisions on the Constitution and precedent, not cockamamie legal theories. Like this totally bogus theory that interfering in someone else's federal investigation is not Obstruction of Justice. A first year law student would get laughed out of class for that Presidential favorite.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: congress and the administration - 05/21/19 03:28 AM

Quote:
federal judges base all their decisions on the Constitution and precedent, not cockamamie legal theories

I no longer believe that is valid. Mr Trump has and continues to pack the federal courts with right wing extremists who are incompetent and Trump loyalists. So I fully expect future decisions will no longer reflect valid Constitutional claims but rely on political views.

Just an opinion. Have to wait and see.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/21/19 09:12 PM

So far that hasn't happened. Hopefully it won't. Anyway, if it does then it will be appealed and, hopefully, it won't happen again. Like just about everything - we will see in the fullness of time...... (love that phrase <g>)

Actually its almost as if the system awaits these cases and are currently moving really quick. Hope it continues.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/22/19 07:37 AM

Trump has nominated almost all the judges based on Heritage Foundation recommendations. That means they are conservatives, not Trump loyalists. Judges tend to have great respect for the constitution and precedent. They plan on having life time appointments. Trump is here today and gone tomorrow. Supporting Trump over the constitution goes on your CV forever. That maybe a great source of shame in just a few years.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/22/19 04:24 PM

So far, as far as I can tell, they are proving your point.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/22/19 04:52 PM

Oh, watching news last night. The house Dem announced, yesterday, that their plan is to hold a meeting today to decide what they are going to do next. One would think that after weeks of Republican obstruction that its time to get off the dime. This was according to Nadler who was, again, whining about Trump but doing exactly nothing. Even the left leaning talking heads are getting tired of consistent Democratic whining instead of actually doing something. The constitution, for instance, in reference to tax reports says that the treasury SHALL turn them loose. No court, no nuth'n. If it doesn't happen send in the sergeant of arms, with a couple capital cops and throw the miscreant in jail. If they are doing something that requires to be decided in the courts then get it into the damned courts, stop talking about it and do it! Instead they continue to use the 'Hillary Way', ie. don't upset the enemy, don't fight back much, let the enemy win. I think they forget that the Republicans ARE the enemy! They are the ones who have made that very, very, clear.

Just something else I just don't get............
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/23/19 07:08 AM

Two different federal courts have now sent Trump's guys packing. They can appeal, but the appeals courts are unlikely to intervene, since Trump's lawsuit claims are so ridiculous. Then they can appeal to the Supreme Court, but they have a lot of precedent about the investigative powers of Congress.

How ridiculous are they? The judge today (Trump's accountant case) refused to stay his ruling because Trump is so unlikely to prevail on appeal.

Also today, the New York Assembly voted to tell the state tax authority to turn over anybody's tax records to Congressional committees on request. The governor has said he would sign the bill. So Mnuchin can go F... himself. I think those House committees are gonna have it all quite soon.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: congress and the administration - 05/23/19 01:26 PM

Did you see where Mnuchin refused to answer a direct YES or NO question three times?

Or where Ben Carson confused real estate REO's with OREO cookies?
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/23/19 05:56 PM

After that decision the house should have sent out the Sergeant at Arms, 2 capital police, arrested him, threw him in jail (oh, I am sure they can use the jail of Washington DC) and charged him 25,000.00 a day until he released the returns. Its no longer about the returns and a lot about the congress of the United States taking back the power that the constitution gives them that they have been giving away. They should not have even bothered having the man testify - just more time wasting on blather.

This morning I was watching CNN. The banner below the picture said something like; "The house is giving (whoever) another week to respond thereby giving the White House attorneys time to create their response". This seems about right. They forgot to mention the waste of time and effort, on the part of the house. The kindly, sensitive, Democratic nonsense just gotta stop!
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/23/19 06:21 PM

Apparently, when White House attorneys do "create their response" it's so full of crap they get laughed out of court. They just don't have a case. All they are doing is wasting the court's time with frivolous law suits. The courts should declare them "vexatious litigants" and throw out any suit they file.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/24/19 09:55 PM

I continue to assume that the congress (house) has certain rights and responsibilities which are constantly being referred to by this Dem or that. They also think that they can do stuff like indicting people who lie, ignore subpoenas, etc There is also a congressional power to create a tribunal to determine constitutional stuff which can be passed directly to the supremes, they also have the right to indict on felonies. I suspect there may be more stuff and I sure can't claim any expertise but in reading about it this stuff is possible.

I simply cannot believe that talking everything to death is going to get anything done. The house has, in theory 20 different committees working on investigations. So far, as far as I can tell two of them are doing something although even that is questionable. All the rest are very quiet about what they are doing.

I guess its all about perception (as it always has been). The Dems are incredibly bad at managing perceptions, unlike the Repubicans who understands how important it is. Perhaps they should take some of their campaign millions and hire experts in the field? Its kinda like house legislation. They have something like 249 pieces of legislation yet nobody even bothers to mention it. As far as anybody knows they love to talk stuff to death, threaten and condemn but nothing seems to get done (well, there are those 249 pieces of legislation).

I think Pelosi is awaiting an investigation which can seriously damage Trump before moving forward. I am no longer convinced this is ever going to happen. I am beginning to believe that Trump could actually shoot somebody in public and walk. I do know he has Republicans in congress terrified he will 'primary' them (put up a candidate to run against anybody in congress that doesn't do his will). I find it very strange. Apparently the Republican elected feel they need their jobs more than actually doing their jobs.

Sorry - too much blather I think..............
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 05/24/19 10:15 PM

The problem seems to be that Trump is not actually guilty of any crimes.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 05/25/19 04:41 AM

Oh, he's guilty alright. He just can't be charged while President for any federal crimes. Funny thing though: The state of New York is not bound at all by that Justice Department opinion. They CAN indict him for any state crime, and there's quite a list. I would say as soon as Congress gets the loan information from Trump's accountant and the banks, the state files tax and bank fraud charges.

Then there's all the federal crimes he will be charged with as soon as he leaves office. Like the many many instances of Obstruction of Justice notwithstanding AG Barr's opinion of His Divine Immunity.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 05/25/19 06:32 PM

One can only hope...............
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/01/19 10:00 AM

Deutsche Bank turns over records on Donald Trump's business

House committees are getting Trump's financial records from Deutsche Bank.

Quote:
Waters has long questioned the bank’s relationship with Trump and their willingness to lend to him despite his financial woes and record of falsifying his wealth. Earlier this month, the New York Times reported that Deutsche Bank officials saw Trump as a “risky” client and knew he had greatly inflated his wealth in loan applications. The bank suffered “deep losses” lending to Trump but continued to extend him hundreds of millions in credit, even after he defaulted on a $640 million loan and sued the bank.

In 2017, Deutsche Bank was fined $630 million by the Justice Department for laundering money out of Russia.

Trump’s relationship with the bank has also caught the eye of New York Attorney General Letitia James, who issued a subpoena to Deutsche Bank earlier this month for records related to its financing of four Trump Organization projects, as well as failed effort to buy the NFL’s Buffalo Bills, according to the New York Times.


Another shoe drops.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/01/19 03:35 PM

Quote:
Another shoe drops.


No shoes have actually dropped yet....perhaps an occasional fuzzy slipper has fallen into The Presidents path but he just nudges it aside and carries on...

It's like all those nails in that Republican coffin.

Bank records....money in money out...all carefully laundered by the best accountants in the business. Trump Organization may be fined some impressive sums but you aren't going to see much in the way of impeachable high crimes and misdemeanors.

Everybody's eggs was in Mueller's basket and it turned out to be full of marshmallows. Now everybody's hoping House investigations will turn up evidence of impeachable activity.

Donald Trump, while certainly not "innocent", by any stretch of the imagination, is guilty of no crimes.

And he knows it.

Just like you and I know that we are guilty of no crimes.

Democrats are tilting at windmills in their search for impeachable offenses. They have already pretty much destroyed their chances to win in 2020 over it.

There are a million words that could be used to describe our president. One stands out...

He's an assh*le. But that's not an impeachable offense.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: congress and the administration - 06/02/19 11:40 AM

Not all democrats are invested in this impeachment boondoggle.
Many are out organizing and makingthe case for progressive and leftists proposals.
You know, addressing peoples material concerns with proposals that have broad popular support.
It's revealing, for me anyhow, to see whats more important to some. Impeachment or real street level politics.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Centrists want a legal solution to a political problem.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/03/19 03:28 AM

Quote:
Donald Trump, while certainly not "innocent", by any stretch of the imagination, is guilty of no crimes.


I'm not sure what you mean by that. The Mueller Report list 10 crimes he can be impeached for, or indicted after he leaves office. House investigations are going to turn up evidence for money laundering, tax fraud, and bank fraud. Trump is sure he's committed no crimes, but we don't have to share that delusion.

All the Mueller Report can do is act as evidence in an impeachment trial. If the Senate is too corrupt to convict in the face of damning evidence, then all this evidence has to wait until Trump leaves office. But very bad stuff is heading Trump's way.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/03/19 05:49 PM

I see no damning evidence. The president is neither accused nor guilty of any crimes that we know of. There are hints and allegations but the Mueller report is a wash. As Republicans have said...the case is closed.

Will House investigations turn up anything that Mueller didn't? I doubt it.

Mostly we have newspaper reports of possible wrongdoing.

You keep telling me that Trump's in for trouble. But I keep not seeing it. I see a pretty good chance he gets re-elected for a second term.

We have entered the Twilight Zone. Bizzaro World. The Upside Down.

Where a 21st Century Robin Hood steals from the poor and gives to the rich.

AND BECOMES A FOLK HERO FOR IT!!!!

His crimes are forgiven by the very people who should be holding him to account.

Your way would be easy, a few trials a few convictions and this nightmare is over...all wrapped up and put behind us. Wishful thinking.

This is going to end in a trainwreck. I've said it all along. What I failed to see earlier is that we are passengers on one of the trains.
Posted by: rporter314

Re: congress and the administration - 06/03/19 10:50 PM

Will anyone care once he has left office???

He can probably hire real attorney's which could keep him out of court until after he dies.

America is truly a great land. One can be immoral, corrupt, a bigot, a brutish slug and still be elected to the WH. Seems I recollect something similar happening in Rome a while back.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/03/19 11:25 PM

In the past it has been considered bad form to prosecute a president after he leaves office...
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/04/19 07:37 AM

A lot of stuff was "gentleman's agreement". Trump and Turtle-Man have blown that away. I kind of doubt the Democrats will amend the Senate rules back to 60% for everything when they take the Senate next. I think the gloves are off. If the Republicans refuse to convict him, prosecutors will when he leaves office. The rule of law kind of depends on that. Otherwise it's the Wild West. People will cheat on their taxes, lie on mortgage application, never pay contractors, etc. Everyone's going to justify all sorts of criminal behavior.

But we are not doing that, are we? Just look at all the sexual harassment cases and people being fired from important jobs. Look at the college admissions scandal! That shite has been going on since forever, and now rich and famous people are getting indicted.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: congress and the administration - 06/04/19 10:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
In the past it has been considered bad form to prosecute a president after he leaves office...


In the past we didn't elect mobbed up grifters with a massive debt to Russian oligarchs. If we do not prosecute, it will be a signal to people who are even worse than Trump that America is open for mob business, and it will be a signal to Russia that we have no defenses left functioning.

I don't think it boils down to whether or not America cares, I think it boils down to whether or not the SDNY feels like letting him get away with everything scot free, and I don't think they feel that way.

In the meantime, the dumbest thing we could do is give McConnell another Senate majority to toy with, and lose the House.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/05/19 04:40 AM

Actually, if some folks run in 2020 I think the "milkshaking" trend may turn to something a little harder. Like lead. This is America, after all. At some point a few folks are going to go all "Don't Tread On Me" and start shooting. We do have 20 bazillion guns out there.

More guns wielded by good guys could be a solution, according to the NRA. There are bound to be a few who agree.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/05/19 09:49 PM

Quote:
I think it boils down to whether or not the SDNY feels like letting him get away with everything scot free, and I don't think they feel that way.


What is he charged with?

Donald Trump is not a criminal. He's not a crime boss. He's a realtor who inherited tons of New York City real estate. Essentially a slumlord. There have likely been some shady dealings and his business acumen is well known but he is NOT a criminal and likely isn't guilty of any crimes worth wasting an election over.

But you guys are laser focused on nothing but getting the goods on Trump.
Aint no goods is what I say.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/06/19 07:03 AM

Scores of former federal prosecutors do not agree with you, but maybe you are more of an expert on this matter.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: congress and the administration - 06/06/19 12:46 PM

Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Actually, if some folks run in 2020 I think the "milkshaking" trend may turn to something a little harder. Like lead. This is America, after all. At some point a few folks are going to go all "Don't Tread On Me" and start shooting. We do have 20 bazillion guns out there.

More guns wielded by good guys could be a solution, according to the NRA. There are bound to be a few who agree.


That's the old thing about how one-third of Americans could be manipulated into killing another third of Americans while the last third sits and watches.

And yet somehow I remain convinced that the optics of a bunch of gun-toting bigoted Trumpers starting a shooting war against their fellow Americans would quite possibly be the most distasteful and objectionable spectacle to ever rear its ugly head.

And it would be put down in short order, because at that moment of truth, that one-third would dwindle rapidly in number, losing support quicker than the armed scumbags at the Malheur Wildlife Refuge.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/06/19 03:19 PM

Quote:
Scores of former federal prosecutors do not agree with you, but maybe you are more of an expert on this matter.

Yes I've read the interviews and the newspaper stories. What I haven't seen is an actual charge against Trump or his business.

The media is feeding the frenzy because they don't like Trump.

Obama was accused of a lot of things too. a lot of former federal prosecutors probably said he wasn't a citizen. The president himself has said it.

We'll know the answer to this soon. I think you're going to be disappointed. I'll be disappointed too. But I'm used to that. I'm a democrat.

If there was any serious dirt to be dug up on Trump it would have been dug up by now.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/06/19 05:57 PM

I think a lot of dirt has been dug up, but we have that silly Justice Department opinion that says the President is above the law. Notice no court has ever ruled on that. It's just an opinion written by the Justice Department, to justify Justice Department actions.

But more interesting is that the opinion has no effect on the states. New York is actively working on indicting Trump soon. New York has all of his tax returns, and Congress is getting his financial records from banks and his accountant. The forensic accountants are starting to compare those to see if the criminal stuff Cohen said is true, but it takes a while when you have such a massive pile of documents.

If Trump never cheated on his taxes and never lied on loan applications, then he is in the clear. But "never lied" and "Trump" don't exist in the same universe.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 06/06/19 06:36 PM

What we need is a Democratic party willing, and able, to use their constitutional rights to information from them administration. They have filed suits and now they are getting ready to indict the AG for contempt. If they do that then they should actually arrest said AG, throw him in jail (Washington jail should work), and fine the hell out of him. They should do this with all that have decided that the congress has no rights. Until they actually start to do this they will continue to be laughed at by the Republicans.

If they can start using what the constitution apparently gifts them with their efforts mean nothing, and they will continue to be ignored. Some say that Impeachment gives them more rights. Seems to me they already have which is necessary - they just gotta grow a pair and get on with it.

I continue to believe that if they can get the info they can get enough to horrify the entire nation.

We will, of course, in the fullness of time........................
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/06/19 08:43 PM

Quote:
If Trump never cheated on his taxes and never lied on loan applications, then he is in the clear. But "never lied" and "Trump" don't exist in the same universe.


He's got the best accountants in the business handling all that for him. He's not been hunkered over the desk with Don Jr. and Eric filling out forms with false info.

His lawyer flipped, they got the files. Nothing damning was really found. SDNY might find some little things but most likely they'll get swept under the rug and forgotten.

I'm just gonna sit right here and watch the Democrats self destruct over Donald Trump.

The Mueller Report Makes It Clear: Trump Is Off the Hook in SDNY as Well


Quote:
Since the announcement of special counsel Robert Mueller’s decision to not indict President Donald Trump for obstruction of justice or any members of Trump’s family, critics of Trump who still feel some of his actions may have amounted to crimes seem to have put all their eggs in a new basket: the Southern District of New York. These Trump opponents now seem to be hoping that the Justice Department’s branch in the SDNY, which secured a plea deal from Trump’s former personal lawyer Michael Cohen, will come after Trump’s family for financial improprieties and perhaps Trump himself for potential campaign finance violations. But based on what we have learned from the Mueller report, which was released on Thursday, and how it has been handled by Attorney General William Barr, it is time to lower expectations for the SDNY to act, at least as it pertains to the president’s potential criminal liability while in office.

link
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/06/19 08:52 PM

Quote:
Seems to me they already have which is necessary


Yeah everybody keeps telling me they've got the goods on Trump, all they gotta do is pull the trigger and it's a done deal.

False. They don't have anything to charge him with.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/07/19 03:26 AM

I don't think SDNY is going to indict Trump. They are part of the Justice Department. They might indict some more of Trump's people including some of his family members. But it might be smarter to wait until Trump no longer has pardon powers to do that.

But I do think the state of New York is going to act. The state assembly and the governor are NOT big Trump fans. Trump's own fixer testified he overvalued assets for bank loans and undervalued them for tax returns. People DO go to prison for that. Why would he lie? He's made a deal and is already serving time. Perjury about this would add many more years to his sentence, if his deal got revoked ala Manafort. Manafort is a perfect example for coming clean and telling it all when you get a plea deal.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 06/07/19 06:23 PM

Things continue to get more interesting. Here is one that may be of interest: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/trump-lawyer-voicemail-michael-flynn-cooperation

If the house can get the info, and drill down, I suspect they will find a whole nest of Trump bad.

The house has also streamlined the legal procedures of committee chairs (I think I have that right).

All in all they seem to be actually moving right along! Now, hopefully, they will get what they need to proceed.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/09/19 04:07 AM

It's a very complex project, with many steps. Don't make the mistake of thinking nothing is happening, just because Trump is not being frog-marched off in handcuffs. Don't underestimate Nancy Pelosi. She says imprisonment is more appropriate than impeachment, and that is driving Trump crazy.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/09/19 03:41 PM

She's a savvy old broad. She knows impeachment is a bad idea.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 06/09/19 06:59 PM

She thinks that they can nail Trump with enough bad to make him unelectable. The trouble with this is actually getting the bad. If they start a impeachment investigation all bets seem to come off and they are entitled to get whatever they damn well please. If there is a problem there are those that say that they can take it directly to the Supreme court. This would setting two things right off the bat. The first would be the determination by many that the supremes are now bought and paid for. I don't believe that but its really time to find out! The second thing is that things will not be in the courts for years. The supremes could refer it to a lower court which, hopefully would render judgment and bump it back up.

Remember, there have been 2 Trump episodes when he thought it was all over. The first was the appointment of Mueller (forget the other). My point is that it would seem that Trump is well aware that he is screwed if facts become known. There is already a vaste store of probably claims of his wrong doings and they need to be discovered. An impeachent investigations would, in theory, make that process a LOT easier?
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/09/19 09:25 PM

The option you seem to keep skipping is the one where Trump is actually guilty of no crimes. And he knows he is guilty of no crimes.

I'm not really sure what crimes he's been accused of? The federal government already has his tax records. IRS hasn't sent goons to lock him up for evasion or anything....and he's been under audit for years.

Russia tried to tamper but Trump didn't take the bait. He sent lackeys to meet them.

Has money been laundered through his businesses? Probably. Was he aware of it...? Prove it.

He borrowed from banks that gave him the best rates. Those were often foriegn banks. IRS probably has all that info too...Any reason to make it public? Nope. It's nobody's business but his.

And it's all a hoax. Trump keeps all eyes on him while the treasury is being looted and government offices ransacked. He has been vetted seven ways from Sunday and has survived it all.

They shouldn't need to search for crimes. He's a horrible president, he has damaged himself with his behavior more than Democratic harpy-like shrieking could ever accomplish.

But because of Democratic harpy-like shrieking he's got a fair chance of being re-elected.

Well...that and Joe Biden being the worst candidate in the history of politics.
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: congress and the administration - 06/10/19 04:33 AM

I think he's skipping over it because it simply doesn't exist. Trump tried to interfere with the FBI and Mueller's investigation of Flynn. There is absolutely no doubt about that. It's right there in the Mueller Report. Flynn did plead guilty to several crimes and is going to jail for them. Trump's actions constitute Obstruction of Justice, which IS a crime that people go to prison for. Saying Trump committed no crime is delusional.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 06/12/19 05:20 PM

Gregor - you may be right. Nobody will know unless the house investigations bear fruit. To do that they need information and they have been denied that. They seem to be working for a solution to that. With luck investigations will bear fruit. Remember, even Trump thought he was done when Mueller was assigned. We still have the Mueller plan/report. Trump continues to fight like hell to stop anybody getting info. I choose to believe the dam will break and stuff will be found. This would mean that Trump is a lot smarter than I think (every teacher who has ever taught him, and spoke how smart they thought he was, replied that he was a walking stump).

Apparently, if they move on, at least, an impeachment investigation, then presidential privilege can be breached. We will see.

Anyway, wishful thinking is sometimes good, it keeps hope alive.
Posted by: Gregor

Re: congress and the administration - 06/15/19 10:53 PM

The obstruction charge isn't gonna fly this time.

If that's all they got the game is over. Show me some tax evasion or wonky real estate deals. Money laundering, human trafficking,jaywalking...anything...but forget about the obstruction charge.
It's going nowhere.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 06/16/19 08:00 PM

I continue to think there is a lot more about Trump to find. We already know that he does not pay his bills. Now, I hear, when he wants to have one of his things he has to pay up front because he is in debt to other places for something like 7 million dollars.

There is also the scam he has been running, worldwide, and described in cnn's "Trump family business". This guy is a criminal, pure and simple. Once the house actually starts to use powers given in constitution I think he will be done.
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 06/20/19 04:16 PM

Yesterday the Democrats demonstrated that they are not willing, basically, to work with any of them damned Republicans. It started with Biden trying to explain that, when in congress, or president, you must actually deal with the other side to get it done. This means that the job is to legislate in the interest of the voting public and the nation. So, you work with anybody who will help, irregardless of the beliefs, politics, morals, and party of the opposition. This is the way, I think, that our system was setup. Both sides, working together, finding a middle ground and acting on that middle ground, ie. work with anybody you can.

Now the Democratic purists, currently, apparently, being led by Cory Booker, who has made it crystal clear that he refuses to work with any Damned Republican because they do not believe as he does and it offends him. The rest of the Democratic purists lined right up behind him, all beating their breast and claiming that the light of good is in their corner and they will not budge on this business of collaboration with the enemy. Before this WE all claimed to be for working with the other side but that rabbit has now fled the hat. One can only wonder what they will come up with next (although some of the currently favored stuff is just not gonna happen (I won't list them so as to keep any true believers from blowing a gasket).

My point is that this is, I think, the opening salvo, by the Democratic purists, to make absolutely sure Trump gets another 4 years!

Oh, to beat a dead horse, the house Democrats, being unwilling to use the power the constitution grants, and determined to make sure the public never sees them in operation, has also decided that any and all testimony (when they actually are able to beg somebody to show up) be behind closed doors, and then whine a lot about what happened, ie. they got snookered again by the dear leader of the opposition and nation because they let him but they are going to do something about that (they have been doing that for a month or more).

So, basically, the Dems have decided to hold hearings in secret and never dance with the opposition, no matter how important the matter, as they are all evil.
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: congress and the administration - 06/20/19 07:18 PM

A little to the right....
A little more....
Just a little more...

s'more....

once more...

almost there.....
Posted by: jgw

Re: congress and the administration - 06/20/19 08:17 PM

I surrender. True believers and purists are just not my cup of tea.

Bye..................
Posted by: chunkstyle

Re: congress and the administration - 06/20/19 08:46 PM

Well shoot JGW, don't leave on my account.
Just making a counterpoint to your... argument, position, whathaveya.
Keep posting and I'll refrain from commenting on your posts.

Hell, sometimes I'm in agreement with you and have said so.

I'd hate to have you pick up your marbles and storm off.
Posted by: NW Ponderer

Re: congress and the administration - 06/22/19 07:20 PM

I posted this elsewhere, but it is applicable here: It is interesting (and extremely scary to me) how the current conservatives on the Court are skewing civil rights all in one direction. On the one hand, they are expanding "religious (read Christian)" rights, firearm rights and property rights, but limiting voting, expression (of not their viewpoint) rights, and freedoms of minorities from discrimination of various types, or application of other rights (due process, press, search, seizure). What's the through line here? Pro- police state, corporate, Christian; anti- citizen, minority? The pattern is obvious and inexorable. Feeling a little like the frog-in-the-pot lately? You should, really, be very afraid.

I have no confidence that the current Court will do anything to rein Trump or his administration in. I expect that they will find any thin excuse to allow him to consolidate his power (so long as it is used for Republican purposes), and do anything in the furtherance of the police state being created. They will block any Democratic initiative by any Democratic body, with the full support of the Republican cabal in Congress, even if both the Senate and White House are in Democratic hands. We are in the throes of the death of democracy but don't fully realize it yet. I'm not being hyperbolic here. The only possible hope is a sweep of the Senate and White House AND the retirement/death of a Conservative Justice during the next Democratic presidency.

It was nice (being American) while it lasted.
Posted by: Greger

Re: congress and the administration - 06/22/19 10:46 PM

Interesting times, eh?

"They were the best of times, they were the worst of times..."

We really were born into an interesting era.
But you don't hafta be such a buzzkill. Biden's probably going to get elected. There's maybe an even chance that Democrats take the Senate.

It may not turn out so bad...
Quote:

The only possible hope is a sweep of the Senate and White House AND the retirement/death of a Conservative Justice during the next Democratic presidency.


All that may very well happen.