Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid

Posted by: pdx rick

Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/01/20 01:18 AM

Quote:
Rep. Justin Amash, a Republican-turned-independent from western Michigan, announced Tuesday evening that he is exploring a third-party bid for the presidency.

The five-term congressman and critic of President Trump said he's launching an exploratory committee to seek the Libertarian Party's nomination.

"We're ready for a presidency that will restore respect for our Constitution and bring people together," Amash wrote on Twitter. "I'm excited and honored to be taking these first steps toward serving Americans of every background as president."

- NPR

  • You're not going to be Preident
  • It's May, there are only six more months to the election
  • Nobody knows who you are
  • You'll siphon "Never Trumper" votes away from Joe Biden
  • You're going to guarantee that Trump is the re-elected
Why are Rightwingers such selfish, arrogant creeps? Hmm
Posted by: pondering_it_all

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/02/20 09:12 PM

I think a Libertarian is much more likely to siphon off reluctant Trump voters who are true conservatives. Given a more acceptable conservative candidate, Trump's share remaining might be nearer to his 33% base. I guess it comes down to the number of Republicans and right leaning Independents who dislike Trump enough to vote for Biden, versus the number of them who would vote for a Libertarian.

As for Libertarians who were going to vote for Biden, I doubt they exist.
Posted by: CPWILL

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/03/20 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: pdx rick

  • You're not going to be Preident
  • It's May, there are only six more months to the election
  • Nobody knows who you are
  • You'll siphon "Never Trumper" votes away from Joe Biden
  • You're going to gurantee that Trump is the re-elected


I'm a NeverTrumper - the odds of me voting for Biden were about roughly equal with the odds of me voting for Trump: in the low single digits, if they existed.

Amash doesn't guarantee a Biden win or a Trump win, any more than a vote for a third party candidate is *really* a vote for a major party candidate. Nobody owns your vote, and it is incumbent on both men to secure the votes necessary in our system to actually win 270+ electoral college votes.

Quote:
Why are Rightwingers such selfish, arrogant creeps?


Well that's certainly a good way to win them over smile
Posted by: jgw

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/03/20 08:10 PM

He was asked if he was a spoiler. He replied that he was just offering a choice to the voters. Given how knowing the American voting public is, and how media will give him lots of free time on tv he WILL get votes. Hopefully not enough to screw it all up but possible.

Here is his 'conservative' score:
https://www.conservativereview.com/scorecard/justin-amash/

I hope somebody asks him if he wants to privatize the highway system or public education or the post office (amongst others)
Posted by: Greger

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/03/20 08:37 PM

Quote:
Well that's certainly a good way to win them over

I don't think anybody is trying to win anybody over anymore.

The battle lines are drawn. It's a matter of turnout.

Which candidate can excite his base the most and get them out to vote.

If the crowded Biden rallies are indicative of anything...
Posted by: Greger

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/03/20 08:55 PM

I would welcome a libertarian into the fray! He wouldn't cost Biden as many votes as he would cost Trump because he is an exotic right winger who hovers around the center. He'd draw a goodly handful of right leaning independents though. Didn't some former governor just play for that crowd last time...? Gary somebody?
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/03/20 08:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Greger
I would welcome a libertarian into the fray! He wouldn't cost Biden as many votes as he would cost Trump because he is an exotic right winger who hovers around the center. He'd draw a goodly handful of right leaning independents though. Didn't some former governor just play for that crowd last time...? Gary somebody?

I disagree for the reasons cited in the OP. smile
Posted by: Greger

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/03/20 11:01 PM

Generally these guys take such a small percentage that they don't make a difference in the big picture. This character may or may not make it onto many ballots. He will help expose Libertarians as the frauds that they are.
Posted by: jgw

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/04/20 07:06 PM

ex governor of new mexico. He privatized the state prison system and almost broke the state with that one.
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/04/20 08:24 PM

Originally Posted By: jgw
ex governor of new mexico. He privatized the state prison system and almost broke the state with that one.


And the answer from the privatized corrections system is to do a reality show called "60 Days In"...which makes a total mockery of corrections altogether, which if you've seen even one episode you'll understand right away.
Posted by: jgw

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/05/20 06:52 PM

Never saw it. I do know somebody who worked in a private prison in San Diego. Then he quit because they changed rules that made his job too dangerous. He used to be a policeman in Bulgaria during Russian occupation (still loves the Russians). Then moved over here and got a job in a private prison. When he quit he wasn't alone, others did too. I was told there have been serious problems but its still there.
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/05/20 07:44 PM

Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Quote:
Rep. Justin Amash, a Republican-turned-independent from western Michigan, announced Tuesday evening that he is exploring a third-party bid for the presidency.

The five-term congressman and critic of President Trump said he's launching an exploratory committee to seek the Libertarian Party's nomination.

"We're ready for a presidency that will restore respect for our Constitution and bring people together," Amash wrote on Twitter. "I'm excited and honored to be taking these first steps toward serving Americans of every background as president."

- NPR

  • You're not going to be Preident
  • It's May, there are only six more months to the election
  • Nobody knows who you are
  • You'll siphon "Never Trumper" votes away from Joe Biden
  • You're going to guarantee that Trump is the re-elected
Why are Rightwingers such selfish, arrogant creeps? Hmm

In any normal election where the two major party candidates aren't liked and not wanted by over half of all America, the Libertarian candidate usually receives less than one percent. Taking all third party votes together, Libertarian, Green Party, Constitional and all others, in 2004 they received 1.0% of the vote, in 2008, 1.2% and in 2005 1.5%. Only in 2016 did the third party vote shoot up to 6.0%. Change out Trump with another candidate, change out Hillary with another candidate, third party vote would be in its normal 1-1.5% of the vote.

You're right, Amish isn't going to become president. But he isn't going to take votes away from Biden either. Most Libertarian votes come from the GOP side of the house. Most Green Party votes from the democrats.

The Libertarian candidate doesn't get any money, in fact in 2016 Gary Johnson raised and spent 3 million dollars, all third party candidates together raised and spent 6 million. Compare that to Hillary Clinton, 1.191 billion and to Trump 646.8 million, Amish is no threat.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/

He won't be in the presidential debates, he'll get no media attention, no one will know who he is or what he stands for. He'll be just a third name on the ballot. An outlet for voters who hate both Biden and Trump or are disgusted with both ala 2016, Trump and Hillary.

Amish is a nothing burger. I've never understood the obsession the two major parties have with third parties or their voters. Each thinks the third parties robbed them of votes. Not really, According to CNN exit polls in 2016, which polled third party voters asking them if there were no other candidates on the ballot except Trump and Clinton, who would you have voted for? 19% answered Trump, 16% Clinton, 65% said they wouldn't have voted. So the third party voted actually helped Hillary out in 2016. Third party voters deprived Hillary of 1.44 million votes, they deprived Trump of 1.71 million votes. Perhaps more important, having those third party names on the ballot enticed an additional 5.85 million people to vote that wouldn't have if only their choice was between Trump and Clinton.

Third party names on the ballot caused a higher turnout than if they weren't there. Something to think about, especially when they disliked both major party candidates.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/05/20 08:16 PM


As far as likability...Joe is no Hillary Clinton. At least he has that going for him. smile Americans generally like Joe, and hate Trump. Hmm
Posted by: Jeffery J. Haas

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/06/20 01:19 AM

A judge has smacked down the order cancelling the New York primary.


Quote:
The stunning decision by Manhattan Federal Court Judge Analisa Torres puts the primary back on for June 23.

Andrew Yang, who dropped out of the Democratic presidential race in February, filed the lawsuit that prompted Torres’ decision.

In the suit, Yang argued that even though Joe Biden is already the party’s presumptive presidential nominee, the state Board of Elections’ cancellation of the primary sets a dangerous precedent and precludes Bernie Sanders and other since-dropped out candidates from the ability to collect delegates.


Bow Bow Bow
Posted by: jgw

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/06/20 04:58 PM

The problem with Amash is that he presents himself well and WILL attract some of the independent voters. Remember, Libertarians are tricky and a lot of what they have to say make a kinda sense until you drill down. The American voter doesn't really do that so much. They just grab the first basic stuff then move on to something else as political cant tends, especially after a while, to move on. When queried about being a spoiler he never denied it. He just noted that he was going to give the voters an option, other than Biden or Trump.
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/07/20 12:50 PM

Another option was good enough for me in 2016 between Trump and Clinton. It was good enough for 9 million other voters also. The two major party candidates back then were disgusting to quite a lot of voters. 25% of all Americans disliked both major party candidates which included 54% of independents or swing voters.

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/polling-...candidates.aspx

Most of those who are disgusted with both major party candidates will however, choose the lesser of two evils, the least worst candidate or the candidate they want to lose the least among the two major parties. Now the disliked was so high in 2016 that 6% of All Americans who voted went third party which included 12% of independents. One can safely say a majority of Americans didn't want Trump, a majority didn't want Clinton.

In 2016 that 25% who didn't want either candidate, 6 out of that 25 opted third party to voice their dislike. Compare that to 2012 when 11% disliked both candidates, only 1.5 out of that 11.

what interesting is that those 9 million who opted to voted against both Trump and Clinton probably helped Hillary. According to CNN exit poll of third party voters, the question was asked if there were just two names on the ballot, Trump and Clinton, no third party candidates, 19% said they'd vote for Trump, 16% for Hillary while 65% said they wouldn't have voted. Numbers wise, the third party vote cost Trump 1.71 million votes while costing Hillary 1.44 million. Advantage Hillary.

Actually, the name of the third party candidates means nothing. As long as it is a third choice, that is all that counts. A choice or chance to show one's disapproval of both major party candidates. Although independents, swing voters, those non-affiliated voters, most have no say in who the two major parties choose as their candidates. But they have an exceptional large say in the outcome of the general. According to Gallup and Pew Research, independents make up approximately 40% of the total electorate today. Compare that 40% to 2006 when the non-affiliated or independents made up 30%, you can see their strength is rising while the two major parties are shrinking.
Posted by: jgw

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/07/20 08:55 PM

The Trump campaign is just starting to get going. They are going to try and destroy Biden and will succeed unless the Dems fight back. So far there is little or no evidence that will happen. Sometimes I think that the Dems really don't want to win no matter what.

Its said that the Democrats have a real talent for screwing it all up. One would think that they would sweep the next election but, again, Trump hasn't even really started yet. His only chance is to destroy Biden and he is REAL good at that stuff. Now add the American voters capacity to not think. On top of all that Trump continues to own approximately 40% of the voting public.

All that is bad enough but now we have a spoiler too (Amash). My wife tells me he is already got a solid 5% and its climbing. Remember, Amash is a Libertarian and that song appeals. It will go something like; Taxes are bad, if people want something then they should pay for what they want and those who don't shouldn't be forced to pay for what they don't want. This makes sense without thought and it works (unfortunately)

I think the Dems are in trouble and there is no evidence, so far, to the contrary.

Just saying...........
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/07/20 09:57 PM

I would say the evidence to date is all positive for the democrats. Biden has the lead in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, all states Trump won in 2016. Head to head match ups on RCP shows Biden with a 5.3 point lead nationally.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

RCP electoral college map shows Biden leading 183 to 125 with 230 in the tossup column.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/2020_elections_electoral_college_map.html

Then history has shown the Libertarian candidate takes votes away from the GOP, not the democrats. The Green Party does that. Amash isn't even registering in the polls. Now third party voters are registering at 4%. Back in 2016 at this time, the third party vote was at 15%. with Johnson at 8%, Stein at 5% and other third party candidates, 2%. You're not going to have that huge third party vote this time around.

Unless Amash can raise some 3 or 4 hundred million dollars, which isn't about to happen, he isn't going to be heard. In 2016, Clinton and Trump combined for almost 2 billion dollars. The media isn't going to pay any attention to Amash and he isn't getting into the debates. All third party candidates raised and spent 6 million in 2016.

Money isn't everything though. Hillary raised and spent 1.191 billion to Trump's 646.8 million, almost 2-1 advantage Hillary and she still lost.

https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidential-campaign-fundraising/

All the numbers as of today are all pro-democratic party. That could change, there's still a long way to go. But the big difference between 2016 and today is you had a pool of 21% of the voters either undecided and planning to vote third party. That is down to 10% today who are undecided or stating they'll vote third party. Trump in 2016 didn't need to get one Hillary voter to change their mind. He'll need to do that this year, make some Biden supporters today come over to him. His pool to pull from to make up that five point difference is pretty small.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/07/20 10:15 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista
Another option was good enough for me in 2016 between Trump and Clinton. It was good enough for 9 million other voters also. The two major party candidates back then were disgusting to quite a lot of voters. 25% of all Americans disliked both major party candidates which included 54% of independents or swing voters.

Ol' Joe is quite liked by a majority of Americans. smile I think at this point, a rock could beat Trump in November 2020. Hmm
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/07/20 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista
I would say the evidence to date is all positive for the democrats. Biden has the lead in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, all states Trump won in 2016. Head to head match ups on RCP shows Biden with a 5.3 point lead nationally.

You forgot Texas. Even Texas is in play and that should never be. Texas is solid red. This means that Trump is hated THAT much. smile
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/08/20 12:16 AM

Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
I would say the evidence to date is all positive for the democrats. Biden has the lead in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Florida, North Carolina, all states Trump won in 2016. Head to head match ups on RCP shows Biden with a 5.3 point lead nationally.

You forgot Texas. Even Texas is in play and that should never be. Texas is solid red. This means that Trump is hated THAT much. smile

As of February in Texas Trump had a 52% approval, 45% disapproval. That's the latest poll for Texas. Here's the head to head match up for Texas.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/tx/texas_trump_vs_biden-6818.html

Trump beat Hillary by 9 points in 2016. It seems the absence of Hillary makes a huge difference. It certainly did for independents, the non-affiliated voters. With Hillary in the race in 2016, independents went to Trump, with no Hillary on the ballot for the 2018 midterms, independents went for the Democratic congressional candidates 54-42. From a plus 4 for the GOP in 2016 to a minus 12 in 2018. A swing of 16 points. You're probably seeing around the same swing for 2020. The big difference between 2016 and 2020 in Texas is that 43% of independents say they'll vote for Biden vs 28% who say Trump. But you still have a huge 29% of independents undecided. Biden trails by only a point and a half. Who those non-affiliated, undecided swing voters decide who they'll vote for will decide Texas's fate.

In other words, Republicans and Democrats are irrelevant when it comes to Texas. Independents are the key.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/08/20 12:50 AM



Donald Trump, Joe Biden locked in dead heat for Texas, DMN-UT-Tyler polls finds
Dallas News.com


Hmm
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/17/20 03:42 AM


Well THAT was short lived.

coffee
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/17/20 11:33 AM

Amash becoming the Libertarian Candidate, really irrelevant. Outside of 2016 no Libertarian candidate has ever received above one percent of the total vote. Johnson in 2016 received 3.26% mainly because of the dislike for both major party candidates. A third name on the ballot was just what some people were looking for to voice their displeasure for both major party candidates. Jill Stein received 1.07% for the Green Party.

Unless Amash can come up with a couple hundred million dollars for his campaign, he'll be under one percent this year. Another thing is that 15% of the electorate were thinking or stating they'd vote third party this time of year back in 2016. This year only 4% are.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/17/20 02:02 PM



Actually, Amish's candidacy was relevant given that Texas is now in play. Amish would have most definitely siphoned-off those anti-Trump voters, voting for Biden. Your reasoning that Amish was "irrelevant" defies logic.

Hmm
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/17/20 02:45 PM

Originally Posted By: pdx rick


Actually, Amish's candidacy was relevant given that Texas is now in play. Amish would have most definitely siphoned-off those anti-Trump voters, voting for Biden. Your reasoning that Amish was "irrelevant" defies logic.

Hmm

Perhaps, but I think you overestimate the never Trump vote. Most were loyal, life long Republicans. But in 2016 they didn't vote for Hillary, they voted for Johnson. Even so, they took votes away from Trump.

Looking at the most recent polls, 92% of Republicans say they'll vote for Trump. In 2016, Trump received 88% of the Republican vote. Only 3% say they'll vote for Biden, in 2016, Hillary received 8% of the GOP vote. 4% of Republicans voted third party in 2016, only 1% are stating that today. The rest are undecided. This is nationally, not just Texas.

On the other side nationally, 87% of Democrats say they'll vote for Biden, Hillary received 89%. 5% say Trump vs. 8% Trump received in 2016, 2% of Democrats state they'll vote third party vs. 3% in 2016.

There's only one poll for Texas that has been done in May. Emerson doesn't break it down via party. But the Emerson poll includes useful information for not only Texas, but Ohio and California.

http://emersonpolling.com/2020/05/11/ohi...ing-re-elected/

Here's another poll dealing solely with Texas. It's from 27 Apr, so it's old and I wouldn't put that much stock in it. Interesting in its own way. Only 1% of Republicans say they'll vote third party vs. 3% for the Democrats. 87% of Texas Republicans say they'll vote for Trump vs 84% of Texas democrats saying they'll vote for Biden. But this polls shows a bunch of undecided's. Of particular note is that 14% of Texas independents say they'll vote third party with 15% undecided.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/20200502_TX.pdf
Posted by: GreatNewsTonight

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/17/20 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista

On the other side nationally, 87% of Democrats say they'll vote for Biden, 5% say Trump.

So, among Democrats, there are 5% who are full-blown imbeciles.
Being a Democrat and voting for Trump is a certificate of an IQ of 45 or less. Maybe these are the Democrats who belong to the Bernie or Bust movement, and yes, Bernie or Bust types are low-functioning idiots, in my opinion. Pardon my strong language; I get very angry at their stupidity.
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/17/20 04:14 PM

forget Amash, he decided not to run.

"Justin Amash decides against running for president as 3rd-party candidate."

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/justin-amash-decides-against-running-president-3rd-party-194055674.html

So much hype and fret about nothing.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/17/20 05:19 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista
forget Amash, he decided not to run.

"Justin Amash decides against running for president as 3rd-party candidate."

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/justin-amash-decides-against-running-president-3rd-party-194055674.html

So much hype and fret about nothing.


Yeah...I pointed that out already. rolleyes , coffee
Posted by: CPWILL

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/29/20 05:46 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista
forget Amash, he decided not to run.

"Justin Amash decides against running for president as 3rd-party candidate."

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/justin-amash-decides-against-running-president-3rd-party-194055674.html

So much hype and fret about nothing.


With that I lost my ability to vote for a recognizable major party.

Maybe I'll vote for James Mattis this year. At least then I wouldn't feel ashamed.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/29/20 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: CPWILL
With that I lost my ability to vote for a recognizable major party.

Maybe I'll vote for James Mattis this year. At least then I wouldn't feel ashamed.

Oh c'mon, vote for Trump - you know you want to. smile
Posted by: Greger

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/29/20 08:37 PM

Anybody who puts themselves between Donald Trump and re-election puts themselves, their family, and their friends in danger.

Death threats come to anyone and everyone who does not bow down before him. No good will come of any third party candidacy in this race. Amash is just showing good common sense.

There is no shame in withholding your vote CP. Neither candidate deserves your vote. Hang in there though, Libertarianism might soon be making a big comback!

And airlines will be replaced by flying pigs.
Posted by: CPWILL

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/29/20 09:50 PM

Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: CPWILL
With that I lost my ability to vote for a recognizable major party.

Maybe I'll vote for James Mattis this year. At least then I wouldn't feel ashamed.

Oh c'mon, vote for Trump - you know you want to. smile


A bizarre claim. But no, I no more intend to lend my name in support of that child-monster than I intend to jam my personals into an automatic pencil sharpener.
Posted by: CPWILL

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/29/20 11:08 PM

:p Yeah, there isn't much popular support for a Liberty Platform. I'll not vote for no one (probably), but there are some lines you can't cross.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: CPWILL
:p Yeah, there isn't much popular support for a Liberty Platform. I'll not vote for no one (probably), but there are some lines you can't cross.

The same reason why I don't vote in 2016.. smile , Hmm But you DID vote in 2016, what changed this time? coffee
Posted by: Greger

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 01:42 AM

Quote:
:p Yeah, there isn't much popular support for a Liberty Platform. I'll not vote for no one (probably), but there are some lines you can't cross.


Up until the 'rona showed up I had no intention to vote for Biden.

Now that we've entered this post-apocalyptic era I feel its my bounden duty to do all I can to remove Trump.
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 01:48 AM

Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
:p Yeah, there isn't much popular support for a Liberty Platform. I'll not vote for no one (probably), but there are some lines you can't cross.


Up until the 'rona showed up I had no intention to vote for Biden.

Now that we've entered this post-apocalyptic era I feel its my bounden duty to do all I can to remove Trump.

Thank you Gregor. smile , Bow

I'm looking forward to BAMZ!!! and Michelle campaigning for ol' Joe. Let's kick some conTARD ass this fall. Let's get rid of Moscow "Mitch" McTurtle, Miss Lindsey and Susan Collins while we're at and pick-up oh...six or seven Senate seats to boot.

laugh
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 01:28 PM

2016 was the first time in the Libertarian Party's history that its candidate received more than one percent of the vote for the presidency. Johnson received 3.28%. That was 4,488,919 votes. But receiving that many votes I believe was because our two major parties nominated the most disliked and unwanted candidates in our history. Watch for the Libertarian candidate to fall back to their normal below one percent this year. In September of 2016 Johnson was as high as 9% in the polls.

I do think these third party candidates serve a purpose. It give those who don't like nor want either major party candidate a means of voicing their disdain for both. It also give those same folks a reason to get out and vote to officially register their displeasure of the two major party candidates. Third parties fulfilling this function actually enhance voter participation.

According to CNN's exit polls when they asked third party voters who they would have voted for if there hadn't been any third party candidate on the ballot, 65% said they wouldn't have voted. The rest, 19% said they'd have voted for Trump, 16% for Clinton. So in reality, third party voters didn't take votes away for either major party candidate as most would have just stayed home.

https://www.cnn.com/election/2016/results/exit-polls/national/president
Posted by: pdx rick

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 03:57 PM

Originally Posted By: perotista
...I do think these third party candidates serve a purpose. It give those who don't like nor want either major party candidate a means of voicing their disdain for both.

I would also say that the same voters who vote third-party have the delusion that somehow their candidate will become president.

ROTFMOL

The mental illness is strong in these folks. smile
Posted by: jgw

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 05:06 PM

OR they always vote but had no real choices?
Posted by: perotista

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: perotista
...I do think these third party candidates serve a purpose. It give those who don't like nor want either major party candidate a means of voicing their disdain for both.

I would also say that the same voters who vote third-party have the delusion that somehow their candidate will become president.

ROTFMOL

The mental illness is strong in these folks. smile

I don't think so. I think almost everyone who voted third party in 2016 knew that Johnson, Stein, McMullen etc. didn't have a chance of winning. Some voted for them because they like them the best, but most I think going by past history, voted for a third party candidate to avoid voting for either Trump or Hillary.

If CNN's exit polling is correct, that is close to 6 million people who turned out to vote against both Trump and Hillary that wouldn't have voted at all if they couldn't vote against both those major party candidates.

I was one of those who voted third party. I had no illusions that the candidate I voted for even had a remote chance of winning. But it was that important to me to have my vote officially registered against both of them. Who I voted for was irrelevant, as long as it wasn't Trump nor Hillary. I didn't care who won between them. It made no difference to me whether we had devil A or devil B. All I knew is one of the devils would win. All I wanted to do is not help either devil win. I wanted it known far and wide, I did my best to stop both or either one from winning.

I find it interesting that on election day 56% of all Americans had a negative view of Hillary and didn't want her to become president while 60% of all Americans had a negative view of Trump and didn't want him to become their next president either.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/l37rosbwjp/econTabReport_lv.pdf

Yet, what these stats show is that 8 out of that 56% who didn't like nor want Hillary ended up voting for her so she could wind up with 48% of the vote. With Trump, 14 out of that 60% voted for him although they disliked and didn't want him president either.

So in the end we ended up with Trump. This is what happens when neither party nominates someone most Americans don't want to become president.

No, I don't think many third party voters at all had the notion that the candidate they voted for could win. Remember 65% of third party voters said they wouldn't have voted if their hadn't been a third party candidate on the ballot for them to vote against both Trump and Clinton. What this means is almost 6 million Americans went to the poll to vote against both candidates. Not necessary for a candidate, but vote against Trump and Clinton, against both or they would have stayed home.

In 2016, if there had been no third party candidate for me to vote against both Trump and Hillary, I would have wrote in Mr. None of the Above. I wanted a say in who Georgia's Senator and who my congressman would be along with the local offices on the ballot. I didn't want nothing at all to do with Trump and Hillary Clinton. If people were stupid enough to vote for either one, then they deserved what they got.
Posted by: Greger

Re: Michigan Rep. Justin Amash Takes Step Toward Libertarian Presidential Bid - 05/30/20 07:21 PM

Quote:
If people were stupid enough to vote for either one, then they deserved what they got.


Well, I stupidly voted for Hillary and got Trump. I guess I deserve it.

But I don't let it bother me much, it's certainly been an interesting four years. My eye is always on the future, my agenda is social democracy. I'm pretty sure I've got a better chance of achieving my goals than the Galt's Gulch Gang. I've got actual working models I can point to.