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#111307 - 05/14/09 03:25 PM Libertarianism Makes You Stupid
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
 Quote:
People who venture into electronic discussion areas will invariable encounter an ideology called Libertarianism. In fact, it is said

[snip]
From proponents, you might be told

The Libertarian way is a logically consistent approach to politics based on the moral principle of self-ownership. Each individual has the right to control his or her own body, action, speech, and property. Government's only role is to help individuals defend themselves from force and fraud.

However, I regard the Libertarianism as a kind of business-worshiping cultish religion, which churns out annoying flamers who resemble nothing so much as street-preachers on the Information Sidewalk.


Link

Libertarianism FAQ

 Quote:
I'm going to beat up on libertarians by creating a straw-man version of them. But, I plan to have fun, and perhaps this little exercise will be cathartic.

Here's the straw-man: Libertarians believe that individuals should choose whether or not to participate in social good. That is, taxes are a form of theft, of the government stealing from you to support their power habits, and to give to the poor, who don't deserve it because they are fat and lazy and probably on drugs, and definitely on welfare.

This version of libertarianism isn't too far from the truth. They rant about this often enough.

Here's my problem with this:

You are part of society. You are gaining by participating in a cooperative society. Therefore, you have obligations to help keep that society as strong as possible. If you don't wish to participate in society, get the hell out. Go someplace where society supports ultimate liberty -- say, Rowanda, or Columbia, where you can do pretty much as you please, as long as you have the money. Granted, others might do unto you that which will benefit them most, but that's what liberty is about, isn't it?

[snip]
"But Tony!" you whine. "Why should I pay taxes to support someone who isn't contributing to society? Why should I help those who are unwilling to help themselves?"

Because, Mister, they don't necessarily have the freedoms you have.

Link


Edited by Phil Hoskins (05/15/09 12:59 AM)
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#111310 - 05/14/09 04:33 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14299
Loc: Whittier, California
In word, Libertarianism = Somalia.

Even in the best of all imaginable worlds, libertarianism equals a ridiculous fantasy with every man to his own mountaintop valhalla, surrounded by a moat and machine guns.

And that valhalla had better be off the grid too, mate.
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#111332 - 05/14/09 06:34 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ron G. Offline
member

Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Texas Gulf Coast
 Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
 Quote:
People who venture into electronic discussion areas will invariable encounter an ideology called Libertarianism...

YOTF rating: 2

Seeking an excellent species, but obviously with little angling skill. Instead of a good fly-rod with a light line, a fine leader and an appropriate dry fly, the amateur fisherman has poured several gallons of stink-bait around the boat and then placed a huge lump of Gob-O-Worm on a gaff and is swirling it in the water in the belief that the target species will fling itself onto the hook...
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Life should be led like a cavalry charge - Theodore Roosevelt

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#111335 - 05/14/09 06:42 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: Ron G.]
2wins Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 7626
Loc: Barely above Sea Level
Ron
Without the benefit of talking to Phil, it seems to me that while this can be construed as baiting, it is out in the open, up front and establishes a clear invitation to debate Phil's position. Unlike Iss, Phil seems to be making no bones about his position. I know you will defend Iss to the core, but his rhetoric is full of traps and pitfalls. That said, in reference to another of your posts on a different thread, I am sure that Iss is quite a poet indeed.
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sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!

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#111336 - 05/14/09 06:44 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: Ron G.]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
So Ron, you admit it is all true. Thanks.

Or just don't have the stomach for a discussion?
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#111349 - 05/14/09 08:18 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: Ron G.]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
 Originally Posted By: Ron G.
YOTF rating: 2

;-)
Yours,
Issodhos
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"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#111355 - 05/14/09 08:28 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: issodhos]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
What does YOTF have to do with it? Or do you have a different meaning for the term? If so, have the guts to spell it out.
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#111359 - 05/14/09 08:53 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: Phil Hoskins]
2wins Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 7626
Loc: Barely above Sea Level
seeing as they are rugged individualists, they can choose to stand independent of any discussion, and feel no need to defend their position, since their position is one of solitary independence and they stand with no one.
_________________________
sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!

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#111363 - 05/14/09 09:07 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: 2wins]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Feel free to contribute your thoughts, 2wins.
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#111373 - 05/14/09 09:37 PM Re: Libertarianism Makes You Stupid [Re: Phil Hoskins]
AustinRanter Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 3643
Loc: Austin, Texas
Party Membership In: Democrat Pary - Republican Pary - Libertarian Pary = Surrendering One's Ability to Engage in Free Thinking

And just for grins...throw in any other party name on the left side of the equation and the equation still works.
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Yours Truly - Gregg



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