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#150797 - 05/20/10 05:13 PM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Kaine]
Kaine Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 2148
Loc: Pennsylvania
Upon doing more research, I see that in March of 2009:
Quote:
Gates also made clear what America's bottom line in Afghanistan will be: "At a minimum, the mission is to prevent the Taliban from retaking power against a democratically elected government in Afghanistan," he said. "And thus turning Afghanistan potentially again into a haven for al-Qaida and other extremists."
Source

How many other countries still fit this goal?

But it is still difficult to see what exactly the goals are for this war. They seem to continually morph in to another goal.

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#150810 - 05/20/10 06:30 PM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Ardy]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6468
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Ardy
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

My guess is that it will end with another Obama apology tour. He is not the Apologizer and Chief. (AOTUS)


I guess President Bush could never be accused of being AOTUS: he never saw much of anything that he should apologize for.

But MA, what do you think our policy should be on this issue? Indefinite war? Nuke the place and have done with them? Immediate withdrawal?


I have to tell you the truth, Afganistan could fall into a giant sink hole and I couldn't care less. Iraq was, and here I go again, necessary because Sadaam kept telling the world he was dangerous. Afganistan was a success the moment the Taliban abandoned the country. I think that the English recomendation is the correct one, install a dicator we can get along with, and just pay attention to Afgan current events. Just do something other than tyhe nothing we are doing today.

You make the call, turn the mountains into a fuel source for the rest of the middle east if you want, but American's should be moving back to Iraq ASAP. With Iran flexing her muscles, the only counter balance in the ME today is either the US or Israel, and if Israel takes care of the problem it causes a much larger problem.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#150852 - 05/20/10 09:37 PM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Ma_Republican]
AustinRanter Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/06
Posts: 3643
Loc: Austin, Texas
Originally Posted By: Tim
You make the call, turn the mountains into a fuel source for the rest of the middle east if you want, but American's should be moving back to Iraq ASAP. With Iran flexing her muscles, the only counter balance in the ME today is either the US or Israel, and if Israel takes care of the problem it causes a much larger problem.


In my itty, bitty opinion, we need to be out of both Iraq and Afganistan.

Osama bin Ladin won. Our government and military can't admit the financial and economic catastophies that bin Ladin caused by 9-11 was his indeed his goal. Our country has been in chaos ever since...and in every social way possible.

Bin Ladin changed the way Americans live...and forever. He won.

The middle east is full of bin Ladins. If we captured and killed bin Ladin on nation TV...there are hundreds, if not thousands more...just as frickin evil just waiting to take his place. Bin Ladin's son has already said that there is a young man who is already chosen as bin Ladin's successor...and is many times more evil than bin Ladin.

Now comes along another guy who believes that he can win in a much more profound way. But this guy, more than the others before him wants to more than just change our lives...he wants to destory our lives, our country, our history, our future in ways that bin Ladin can't if he wanted to.

Iran's Mullah and whats his name wants to destroy all none Muslim nations because we're all infidels.

Now that's a world problem...not a U.S. or Isreal problem. So Iran has their eye on a much bigger goal than bin Ladin. In fact, bin Ladin is small-time in comparison.

The world, every capable country better be prepared to do whatever it takes to bring down Iran's leaders.

The U.S. has proven over and over again that it just can't win in a guerrilla type warfare in another country where civilians and their militia look exactly the same. So we just kill everybody? That's the only way we can win in that type of war...kill everybody...men, women and children. Not that we haven't been...but of course we all know that they're collateral damage. No biggie, huh?

We need to get OUT of both of our wars and get ourselves prepared for a war that is going to make Iraq and Afghanistan seem like an amusement ride at Disney World.

But the above is just my opinion, ya know.
_________________________
Turn on ANY brand of political machine - and it automatically goes to the "SPIN and LIE CYCLE" wink

Yours Truly - Gregg



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#150865 - 05/20/10 11:06 PM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: AustinRanter]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6468
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: AustinRanter
Originally Posted By: Tim
You make the call, turn the mountains into a fuel source for the rest of the middle east if you want, but American's should be moving back to Iraq ASAP. With Iran flexing her muscles, the only counter balance in the ME today is either the US or Israel, and if Israel takes care of the problem it causes a much larger problem.


In my itty, bitty opinion, we need to be out of both Iraq and Afganistan.

Osama bin Ladin won. Our government and military can't admit the financial and economic catastophies that bin Ladin caused by 9-11 was his indeed his goal. Our country has been in chaos ever since...and in every social way possible.

Bin Ladin changed the way Americans live...and forever. He won.

The middle east is full of bin Ladins. If we captured and killed bin Ladin on nation TV...there are hundreds, if not thousands more...just as frickin evil just waiting to take his place. Bin Ladin's son has already said that there is a young man who is already chosen as bin Ladin's successor...and is many times more evil than bin Ladin.

Now comes along another guy who believes that he can win in a much more profound way. But this guy, more than the others before him wants to more than just change our lives...he wants to destory our lives, our country, our history, our future in ways that bin Ladin can't if he wanted to.

Iran's Mullah and whats his name wants to destroy all none Muslim nations because we're all infidels.

Now that's a world problem...not a U.S. or Isreal problem. So Iran has their eye on a much bigger goal than bin Ladin. In fact, bin Ladin is small-time in comparison.

The world, every capable country better be prepared to do whatever it takes to bring down Iran's leaders.

The U.S. has proven over and over again that it just can't win in a guerrilla type warfare in another country where civilians and their militia look exactly the same. So we just kill everybody? That's the only way we can win in that type of war...kill everybody...men, women and children. Not that we haven't been...but of course we all know that they're collateral damage. No biggie, huh?

We need to get OUT of both of our wars and get ourselves prepared for a war that is going to make Iraq and Afghanistan seem like an amusement ride at Disney World.

But the above is just my opinion, ya know.





The damage to the middle east if we were to leave tomorrow would be too much. I don't want our military in Iraq any more than you do, but the situation calls for them to stay there for a while longer. It is fairly safe duty as of late and their presence keeps Iran looking at us rather than Saudi or Turkey. I am not fans of either country, but that are what qualifies as allies in that part of the world.

Iran is the danger, not Afganistan, and if left alone Iran will start a major war, one that will drag the rest of the world into it. Reality tells us that oil is our lif3line and without the middle east our economy, and that of the rest of the world, stops working. The Saudis know that and so does everybody else in the middle east except, I fear, Iran.

This is the scenario that I see would happen, we leave, Israel and Iran start a fight. It doesn't matter who starts it but it will start and the rest of the middle east has to support their Muslim brothers. Israel can't win that war with conventional weapons and Iran is more than willing to force Israel into defending herself.

Then we have the middle eastern coriolis effect. The US in Iraq keps that from happening.

Imagine the apology tour the AOTUS could make after that!


Edited by Ma_Republican (05/20/10 11:08 PM)
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#150880 - 05/21/10 12:47 AM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Kaine]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3465
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
Ah!

But the Taliban has always been our enemy. Bin Laden was never of much interest. Which organization has demonstrated the ability to run a country of 28 million? There's that group and an organization that consists of a handful of affiliated bands of gangsters scattered around the globe. Though al-Qaeda is demonstrably an Evil that needs to be eliminated, it survives because of governments in places like Indonesia, Somalia, Yemen, Afghanistan, the United States, Great Britain, Pakistan and Palestine.


Edited by Irked (05/21/10 12:51 AM)
_________________________
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues - AB Breivik

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#150881 - 05/21/10 01:10 AM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Ma_Republican]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
The damage to the middle east if we were to leave tomorrow would be too much.

...snip...

Iran is the danger, not Afganistan, and if left alone Iran will start a major war,


The "damage to the middle east" (and to ourselves) if and when we leave, will have been of our own making. And by the way, when was the last time Iran started a war of any size? Just curious.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#150942 - 05/21/10 09:25 AM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Ma_Republican]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

The damage to the middle east if we were to leave tomorrow would be too much. I don't want our military in Iraq any more than you do, but the situation calls for them to stay there for a while longer. It is fairly safe duty as of late and their presence keeps Iran looking at us rather than Saudi or Turkey. I am not fans of either country, but that are what qualifies as allies in that part of the world.


poor little saudi arabia and turkey?

an i suppose you think that Britain joined world war one over plucky little belgium
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#150943 - 05/21/10 11:23 AM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: issodhos]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6468
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: issodhos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
The damage to the middle east if we were to leave tomorrow would be too much.

...snip...

Iran is the danger, not Afganistan, and if left alone Iran will start a major war,


The "damage to the middle east" (and to ourselves) if and when we leave, will have been of our own making. And by the way, when was the last time Iran started a war of any size? Just curious.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos

Iss,
The danger that Iran poses to the ME is much too great not to take her threats seriously. For the record, I believe that Israel would have to attack Iran if the US left the area. The threats that Iran has leveled at Israel, and her history, tells me that Israel would be very aggressive in eliminating the supposed threat before it becomes dangerous.

Unfortunately we are there, we have the power on the ground and without us Iran has free reign. Life sucks sometimes, and right now the Middle East is that sometimes.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#150945 - 05/21/10 11:35 AM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Schlack]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6468
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Schlack
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

The damage to the middle east if we were to leave tomorrow would be too much. I don't want our military in Iraq any more than you do, but the situation calls for them to stay there for a while longer. It is fairly safe duty as of late and their presence keeps Iran looking at us rather than Saudi or Turkey. I am not fans of either country, but that are what qualifies as allies in that part of the world.


poor little saudi arabia and turkey?

an i suppose you think that Britain joined world war one over plucky little belgium


It is all about stability. Saudi Arabia is a fabricated state with little national defense. They also own a large majority of the world's oil supply. Enough that if it were lost, your country of Ireland would suffer proportionately greater than the US would, but so would most of Europe.

Turkey is a NATO member and as such would have to be defended if attacked.

Kuwait has no military.

Syria would not let the opportunity go to waste

Who knows what would happen in Pakistan

India would be extreemly nervous

Israel if Israel and her response will be predictably imaginative and aggressive

With the exception of England and France, Europe has no home grown oil. Have you seen the picture of North Korea at night? This is what Europe would look like.




Edited by Ma_Republican (05/21/10 11:54 AM)
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#150948 - 05/21/10 01:52 PM Re: Secrets From Inside the Obama War Room [Re: Ma_Republican]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican

With the exception of England and France, Europe has no home grown oil.



lol

Norway?

Romania?

Ireland (v likely!)

you really dont know what you are talking about.

As usual your opinions are not backed up by the real world.

in any case anything that increases the price of oil and forces the pace of alternative energy produciton is f-ing fine by me.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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