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#160707 - 08/31/10 03:40 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Ma_Republican]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9573
Loc: The Great American Desert
a) This is an international issue BY DEFINITION
b) It has made news internationally
c) Our human rights record lately is not pretty
d) Therefore it makes sense to me to address an issue that is already known and already under discussion, when NOT to do so would risk accusations that we are ignoring our own problems.

Item C is important, folks. We no longer wear a white hat when it comes to our human rights; we haven't for some time. Refusing to look at our problems doesn't help our reputation and doesn't win us any sympathy or any cooperation in solving them.

A little perspective would really help on this issue.

Go back and look at the text of the report - better yet, I'll re-post it here.

Quote:
recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, (which) has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world. The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoinedd.


Suggesting that a three-sentence status report is "picking a fight" is simplistic and pointless. If the federal government wants to pick a fight with Arizona, they know how to do it, and this isn't it.

Tell me - any idea what was included in the last human rights report we filed with the UN?
_________________________
Julia

Curiosity killed the cat - Satisfaction brought it back

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#160712 - 08/31/10 04:39 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Mellowicious]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6468
Loc: USA
Quote:
recent Arizona law, S.B. 1070, (which) has generated significant attention and debate at home and around the world. The issue is being addressed in a court action that argues that the federal government has the authority to set and enforce immigration law. That action is ongoing; parts of the law are currently enjoinedd.


The real question is why? The document in question is usually read less often by the general public than the HCR bill was read by the members of Congress, so it was purposely leaked to the press. If the Administration did it I am dumbfounded, if the Republicans did it I have to say DUH!

From a practical perspective it really doesn't matter. The UN has less respect in the US than ACORN had at the end. From a political perspective nothing good can come from putting these three sentences into the report. It doesn't matter if it got international press or not, the Mosque got as much press recently and that isn't included in the report. Hell, Obama's birth certificate got more international press and I don't see that mentioned in the report.

For an administration that was supposed to be full of adults, these childish stunts are killing them. I do not like Obama, but my success and your success and even Numan's success depends on Obama being successful. To be successfull he has to gather the support of America across party lines. A solid majority of America supports Arizona's efforts and yet Obama decides to prolong a fight that had really been erased from the press. It makes no sense.

As for your idea that this a Hillary bashing, I thought her campaign was actually better than Obama's. I thought she had a better grasp on the economic realities of America and that she would have been a better President than Obama and possibly McCain. I actually don't think this was Hillary's idea. I believe that she is smarter than that.

A nothing situation has been turned into a political nightmare for the President all because he wanted to take a cheapshot, instead he will get dope slapped.
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A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
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#160719 - 08/31/10 05:31 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Ma_Republican]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9573
Loc: The Great American Desert
Ma, if you'd pay attention to what I write, instead of what you think I'm saying, conversation would be smoother.

I didn't say this was a Hillary bashing. I said "As usual, when the headline is outrage and Hillary Clinton, there's more heat than substance." Meaning a lot of people have a short fuse with Ms. Clinton, so if you can attach an issue to her you score extra points. (Some people call those "cheap shots.")

You wrote four paragraphs to tell me why this doesn't matter -- amazingly, this puts you exactly in line with Schlack and with me. You have now expressed our viewpoint.

Glad you saw the light.
_________________________
Julia

Curiosity killed the cat - Satisfaction brought it back

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#160721 - 08/31/10 05:47 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Mellowicious]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6468
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Mellowicious
Ma, if you'd pay attention to what I write, instead of what you think I'm saying, conversation would be smoother.

I didn't say this was a Hillary bashing. I said "As usual, when the headline is outrage and Hillary Clinton, there's more heat than substance." Meaning a lot of people have a short fuse with Ms. Clinton, so if you can attach an issue to her you score extra points. (Some people call those "cheap shots.")

You wrote four paragraphs to tell me why this doesn't matter -- amazingly, this puts you exactly in line with Schlack and with me. You have now expressed our viewpoint.

Glad you saw the light.


There is a big difference between self criticism
Quote:
We are not satisfied that a person with disabilities is only one fourth as likely to be employed as a person without disabilities. We are not satisfied when fewer than half of African-American and Hispanic families own homes while three quarters of white families do. We are not satisfied that whites are twice as likely as Native Americans to have a college degree. The United States continues to address such disparities by working to ensure that equal opportunity is not only guaranteed in law but experienced in fact by all Americans.

and what was specifically implied by adding Arizona in the report. You and Schlack do not see anything wring with naming Arizona in the report, I am saying that it is indeed wrong but in the big picture who cares what the UN thinks of Arizona.

I am attacking this from another angle, and that is asking the question of why it was done in the first place? Hillary has done a good job as Sec of State. She hasn't made headlines, she has carried the administrations water very well and has actually tried to keep State above the fray, all the more reason to believe that she didn't add Arizona to the report.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#160723 - 08/31/10 05:51 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Ma_Republican]
Mellowicious Offline
veteran

Registered: 05/03/06
Posts: 9573
Loc: The Great American Desert
Hard to know why it was done unless you know who leaked it, and you've already said you don't know that. So "why it was done" is basically wild speculation --- and that's where my interest ends.
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Julia

Curiosity killed the cat - Satisfaction brought it back

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#160734 - 08/31/10 06:33 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Mellowicious]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8707
Are some islands in the South China China Sea of national strategic importance?

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#160737 - 08/31/10 06:43 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8707
Is WW III necessary to jump start the economy, because that's what what we're looking at?

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#160749 - 08/31/10 08:31 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Joe Keegan]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14037
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan
Is WW III necessary to jump start the economy, because that's what what we're looking at?

Did Hillary Ckinton suggest WW III to the UN to Jump start the economy? Da bitch! I knew there was a reason I voted for Obama.

This all looks like business as usual to me. You know, crap they talk about at the UN. I can't quite get a grasp on the conflation of Arizona and some Chinese Islands, are these in some way the same issue? I don't imagine President Obama will be declaring war on China or Arizona, you may have to wait for his Republican replacement to work up that plan...The next small government, Christian, wartime president.
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#160796 - 09/01/10 11:56 AM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Greger]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8707
From the article:
Quote:
The visit comes 35 years after the Vietnam War as Washington and Hanoi are cozying up in a number of areas, from negotiating a controversial deal to share civilian nuclear fuel and technology to agreeing that China needs to work with its neighbors to resolve territorial claims in the South China Sea.
Doesn't this concern you? Almost 60k Americans died in Vietnam in the not too distant past and now we're negotiating "civilian nuclear fuel and technology" with them and declaring some So. China Sea island in US national strategic interest? Do you believe that these islands are in our national interest? Would you go to war for them? Vietnam Redux? Doesn't the fact that a US Sec. of State reported Arizona to the UN for "human rights violations" piss you off or do you agree with her? Isn't it ridiculous enough that the DOJ is bringing Arizona into court for enforcing federal law? Apparently you missed my point. Why would Sec. of State Clinton do such a stupid thing other than for a distraction that will overshadow a much more- IMO-treaty with Vietnam involving nuclear fuel and technology and declaring some So.China Sea Islands in our national interest? I'll guess that will read and hear a lot more about Clinton, Arizona, and the UN than Vietnam, nuclear fuel and technology, and some So. China Sea Islands being in our national strategic interest. BTW- didn't Christian Pres. Obama expand the war in Afghanistan and started another one in Pakistan?

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#160806 - 09/01/10 02:45 PM Re: Hillary Clinton Turns Arizona In To United Nations [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3818
Loc: Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan
Are some islands in the South China China Sea of national strategic importance?

One mans opinion:

Robert Kaplan interview
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