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#181605 - 05/13/11 02:53 PM Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official
Ozymanithrax Offline
member

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1343
Loc: California
Quote:
Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official
By Adam Clark Estes May 12, 2011 TEPCO officials confirmed today the months-long of suspicion that the Reactor No. 1 at Fukushima suffered a full meltdown. According to the disclosure today, workers discovered earlier this week that No. 1's containment vessel has been leaking water and today discovered a sizeable hole they believe was created by fallen fuel pellets. The water leakage not only indicates that the clean up efforts will take longer than originally expected but also that the worst case scenario was already underway when TEPCO said it had been avoided.

Worst case scenario is here. The question remains did Fukusiman 2, 3, and 4 do the same.
_________________________
“If you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinskey

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#181611 - 05/13/11 03:26 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Fukushima - One Step Forward and Four Steps Back as Each Unit Challenged by New Problems
Quote:
Gundersen says Fukushima's gaseous and liquid releases continue unabated. With a meltdown at Unit 1, Unit 4 leaning and facing possible collapse, several units contaminating ground water, and area school children outside the exclusion zone receiving adult occupational radiation doses, the situation continues to worsen. TEPCO needs a cohesive plan and international support to protect against world-wide contamination.

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#181612 - 05/13/11 03:28 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
No rational, realistic person is surprised.

See what I mean about trusting the statements of those with money and power?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#181650 - 05/14/11 06:10 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Are Fukushima nuclear radiation reports being censored?
Quote:
Contrary to previous reports that NILO has stopped making Japan nuclear radiation forecasts, the forecasts are still being produced, they are just not being released to the public.

Nuclear radiation forecasts discovered today on the site show emergency levels of radiation in the latest forecasts censored from the public.

Japan recently announced a massive censorship campaign to silence so-called “irresponsible rumors” about the nuclear radiation being released from Fukushima. Japan’s weather chief also censored radiation forecasts to “prevent panic in ordinary people.”

Can this possibly be true? Would any government censor such reports?

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#181668 - 05/14/11 01:37 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan
Quote:
Japan recently announced a massive censorship campaign to silence so-called “irresponsible rumors” about the nuclear radiation being released from Fukushima. Japan’s weather chief also censored radiation forecasts to “prevent panic in ordinary people.”

Can this possibly be true? Would any government censor such reports?

Really, Joe, it's rather early in the day for such attempts at humor! · · · wink
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#181682 - 05/14/11 06:47 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
LOL:
Quote:
Disclaimer

The information (“Information”) accessible by you (“User”) using the Intel Hub has many sources which do not originate from the Intel Hub. The term Intel Hub also includes but is not limited to www.theintelhub.com, www.theintelhubradio.com, and www.theintelhubnewsnetwork.com
USER’s Responsibility: USER shall 1) Determine whether the Information complies with User’s needs; 2) Determine the credibility of statements and claims made by other users of Intel Hub Radio; 3) Comply with any legal obligations, including but not limited to, obligations imposed by copyright, secrecy, defamation, decency, and export laws; and 4) Isolate Information, execute anti-contamination software and otherwise take steps to ensure that Information, if contaminated or infected, will not damage User’s information or system.INFORMATION Not Warranted or Guaranteed In Any Way: The INTEL HUB IS PROVIDED ON AN “AS IS, AS AVAILABLE” BASIS. The INTEL HUB MAKES NO WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THOSE OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, WITH RESPECT TO INTEL HUB RADIO OR ANY ‘INFORMATION’.
The Intel Hub does not warrant or guarantee 1) the accuracy, adequacy, quality, currentness, validity, completeness, or suitability of any Information for any purpose; 2) that the Information will not contain adult-oriented material, or material which some individuals may deem objectionable; or 3) that the functions or services performed by the Intel Hub will be uninterrupted or error-free or that defects in the Intel Hub will be corrected.


Information=LOL.

Oh--there’s that column of “goods” for sale on the right. I was looking for a 444Hz A tuner. Perhaps that will be available next week.
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#181695 - 05/15/11 08:06 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Disclosures and the political right/left paradigm aside, do you believe that TEPCO and the Japanese, American, and Canadian governments are being upfront about the full nature of the Fukushima disaster? Fukushima has 6 nuclear reactors at risk. Chernobyl had only one. IMO- there will be world wide effects from this that will extend for years.

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#181696 - 05/15/11 08:06 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669

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#181703 - 05/15/11 11:45 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
Joe:

I will agree that this event is not the greatest thing since the wheel was invented but my mind keeps arriving at the conclusion that all forms of energy generation have detrimental consequences to the environment. I don’t see one source as being better or worse than the other. The best “we” can do is to recognize that and deal with it as best as we can. If it’s not nuclear then it’s coal, natural gas, fossil fuels in general. Solar, tidal, wind generation, and hydroelectrical all have their unintended and less than desirable side effects too.

In this case the decision of how to handle this immediate problem rests with Japan. But the ultimate problem that never seems to be addressed is that ever growing affluent populations will need ever more electrical and other energy sources. And that power has to come from somewhere. Unless of course populations start shrinking or cease wanting “stuff" hence reduce their demand. Problem solved--but not until then.

Did you read where Chile is planning on damming one of the worlds last huge wild rivers in order to meet their exponentially growing electrical demand?

Chilean dam project
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#181721 - 05/15/11 03:06 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Ken:

I don't know whether or not this thing is the greatest event since the invention of the wheel, but its long term effect may be just as significant. My concern is that we're not getting all the facts.

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#181753 - 05/15/11 11:28 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
And if you were to have access to them Joe, would those facts help you make better sense of things? Or change anything?

Humanity is on its inexorable trek towards its “goal”. Speaking only for myself--I am along for the ride. And I do enjoy the ride--mostly through music.
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#181777 - 05/16/11 01:08 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Ken,
I don't feel that my vote changes anything, but I vote. I don't feel that by checking the weather reports that I can do anything about changing the weather, but I check the reports anyway just to see if a storm is coming. Regarding radioactivity from Fukushima, I can't do anything about that either, but I can take precautions to avoid drinking radioactive contaminated milk, eating contaminated fish and vegetables, or perhaps delaying any air flight due to the radio activity in the atmosphere. Since you enjoy music and are interested in a safe non polluting energy source, you may enjoy this musical interlude.

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#181795 - 05/16/11 07:12 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
If cold fusion can become a reality I am all for it. But so far from what I have read elsewhere I am sceptical of the claims-- and in this case I hope it’s not just a bunch of Bologna LOL

I think fusion power will eventually become viable but think it will be “hot” fusion and not “cold”. Then again--what the hell do I know.
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#181912 - 05/18/11 12:28 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669

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#181916 - 05/18/11 02:21 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
No worries Joe--no worries. May 21st is just around the corner. You, me, and Iss (my gawd!--the machine spoke!) can all go drain a long tall cool one in the afternoon and watch it all melt down.

I mean the whole Gull Dern thing.
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#181919 - 05/18/11 07:46 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Ken, just in case that you're not around after Saturday, I want you to know that I've always enjoyed reading your posts.

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#181920 - 05/18/11 07:55 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Meltdowns also likely occurred at No. 2, No. 3 reactors of Fukushima plant
Quote:
Data shows meltdowns occurred at the No. 2 and No. 3 reactors of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, creating huge problems for the plant operator that had presented a more optimistic scenario.
The meltdowns will create huge problems for the world.

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#182021 - 05/19/11 12:53 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan

The meltdowns will create huge problems for the world.

There is such a long list of huge problems for the world, isn't there?

I am afraid that the meltdowns will have to take their place in the queue.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#182535 - 05/25/11 02:06 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
They may be moving to the front of the line before too much longer. TEPCO: reactor damage includes holes
Quote:
Reactors 1 through 3 at the plant suffered nuclear fuel meltdowns after the March 11th earthquake and tsunami. This is likely to have created holes and cracks at the bottom of the pressure vessels protecting the reactor cores and damaged the containment vessels.
This is already effecting the Japanese economy. IMO- just a matter of time before the Japanese stop buying our debt.

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#182539 - 05/25/11 02:38 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan

This is already effecting the Japanese economy.

"Effecting"? sick The disease is spreading!! Help!!

I greatly fear that if this stuff about Fukushima keeps getting into our minds, the "even better than the real things" hyper-world of info-tainment will suffer incursions from the drab, subsistent world of mere reality!!
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#182560 - 05/25/11 09:16 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
The disaster is already affecting the Japanese economy and the US is already feeling the effect as a result of the just in time inventory system. I wonder if the radiation being released into the atmosphere and Pacific Ocean will have any lasting environmental effect here in the US or Canada?

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#182611 - 05/26/11 02:19 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Fukushima's Apocalyptic Threat Demands Immediate Global Action

Quote:
Fukushima may be in an apocalyptic downward spiral. Forget the corporate-induced media coma that says otherwise ... or nothing at all.
Lethal radiation is spewing unabated. Emission levels could seriously escalate. There is no end in sight. The potential is many times worse than Chernobyl. Containing this disaster may be beyond the abilities of Tokyo Electric or the Japanese government.
Fukushima Units One, Two and Three are all in various stages of melting down. Molten fuel at Unit One may have burned through its reactor pressure vessel, with water poured in to cool it merely pouring out the bottom.
A growing pond of highly radioactive liquid is softening the ground and draining into the ocean. There is no way to predict where these molten masses of fuel will yet go....The extra plutonium in the MOX fuel at Unit Three is an added liability. At least one spent fuel pool has been on fire. The site has already suffered at least two hydrogen explosions....
All have weakened the structures and support systems on site.
These shocks and the soft ground may be why Unit Four has partially sunk and is tipping, possibly on the brink of collapse. Even a relatively minor aftershock could mean catastrophe. More explosions are possible. More leaks are virtually certain....

The Obama Administration has ended radiation monitoring of seafood in the Pacific.

I'm glad the U.S. government knows where its duty lies. · · · wink


Edited by numan (05/26/11 02:26 PM)
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#182616 - 05/26/11 03:19 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35474
Loc: Bay Area, California
Quote:
I'm glad the U.S. government knows where its duty lies... wink

Given this is clearly at the global crisis stage, remind me again of Canada's role in helping to come to a satisfactory resolution to this catastrophe?

Or, is this a typical world inhabitant rant waiting for the U.S. to fix everything for the world and make things all better? coffee

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#182626 - 05/26/11 05:23 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4889
Canada's role was to be the lead in cutting back on radiation monitoring.

Quote:
Canadian and U.S. authorities have both cut back radiation reporting after detecting only minuscule increases following the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear crisis, despite ongoing clean-up efforts in Japan.

"The quantities of radiation reaching Canada are very small and do not pose any health risk to Canadians," said a statement posted by Health Canada online.

"We have seen very slight increases in radiation across the country, smaller than the normal day-to-day fluctuations," said the website.

As a result the daily reporting of radiation levels has been rolled back to weekly reporting by Health Canada.

"Health Canada will change the frequency of publishing the data from all monitoring networks on the website to once a week starting the first week in May," said the website.

Natural Resources Canada also conducted mobile surveys on Vancouver Island and the B.C. mainland in March and April, but also found no significant increase in radiation.
U.S. cuts back testing

South of the border the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has also ratcheted down that nation's radiation monitoring program for rain, drinking water and milk in response to a consistent drop in the levels of fallout detected.

Numerous radioactive particles have been detected in milk, water and air tests nationwide since the magnitude-9.0 earthquake and tsunami struck the power plant on March 11, but agency officials said Friday the levels were so minuscule they were not harmful to public health.

After seeing the levels drop in recent weeks, EPA cut back to resume sampling water and milk once every three months.
link

I have been unable to verify the claim that the US has halted radiation testing of seafood from the region (not that I am surprised by that, since people will say pretty much anything when no one holds their little feet to the fire because of a lack of documentation.)

But I did find this, which seems to date from around the end of March and indicates that the FDA is indeed monitoring radiation levels.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#182645 - 05/26/11 07:39 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35474
Loc: Bay Area, California
Hey!

I reported to the FDA (TWICE!!) last summer that Safeway, Inc in their NorCal Division was selling fresh cooked Dungeons crab past the industry standard of 7 days from processing.

Nobody at the FDA cares. Safeway is still dong that practice.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#182649 - 05/26/11 08:45 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4889
Not FDA's bailiwick. Local health department would be the place to go.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#182686 - 05/27/11 03:01 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
And all of that carping has what to do with monitoring seafood in the Pacific? · · · wink

Anyway, I had no idea that Canada had so much power to control American actions and prevent the US government from doing the Right Thing.

When will the United States government formally hand over its powers to the Parliament of Canada? · · · wink
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#182695 - 05/27/11 07:42 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ted Remington]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35474
Loc: Bay Area, California
Originally Posted By: churlpat lives
Not FDA's bailiwick. Local health department would be the place to go.

Went to the local health department too! Given that Safeway, Inc has divisions all across the U.S. - one would think that the FDA would get involved.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#182698 - 05/27/11 09:41 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 4192
Loc: North San Diego County
Regulation of food safety is tricky, since some foods are regulated by FDA and others by USDA. But I think churlpat is right on this: Selling old seafood in a grocery store is a matter for your local health department. Feds or state agencies would only be interested if the wholesaler was selling contaminated crabs to distributors, restaurants, or stores.

If you can get several stores busted by their local health departments, and find victims with real injury expenses, then you might be able to get a class action lawsuit started. One of the settlement terms could be "no [x] older then [y] days will be sold".

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#182884 - 05/30/11 06:34 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: pondering_it_all]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Germany set to abandon nuclear power for good
Quote:
The world's fourth-largest economy stands alone among leading industrialized nations in its decision to stop using nuclear energy because of its inherent risks. It is betting billions on expanding the use of renewable energy to meet power demands instead.

The transition was supposed to happen slowly over the next 25 years, but is now being accelerated in the wake of Japan's Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant disaster, which Chancellor Angela Merkel has called a "catastrophe of apocalyptic dimensions."
I wonder if we're getting the whole story from MSM about the implications of the Fukushima nuclear disaster?

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#182895 - 05/30/11 12:31 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3316
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
Let the Europeans fall further behind. No one ever expected a screech of Liberal-Socialist-Communist-Statist surrender monkeys to lead the world into the future. Every Right-thinking person knows that nuclear energy is the way of the future. One need but look at who opposes nuclear energy to know that it is the True long- term answer.
_________________________
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberus Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues - AB Breivik

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#182905 - 05/30/11 03:12 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Irked]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Irked

Every Right-thinking person knows that nuclear energy is the way of the future.

Well, judging by what is happening in Japan, it may very likely be the way to end the problem that the USA poses in the modern world.

Imagine the USA a self-inflicted radioactive wasteland! Then the rest of the world could get on with the project of becoming sensible! · · · wink
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#182942 - 05/31/11 02:16 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
Then the rest of the world could get on with the project of becoming sensible!

And that-perhaps- would lead you-Mr. numan-(if the awl-mit-T gawd chose it) to become chargé des affaires del todo el mundo.

You could and would clean it all up. All of it. The political shenanigans, inefficiencies, general moral turpitude, nuclear power/waste, coal, petroleum, river dams, solar panels, windmills, harnessing tides..etc.

If only the time, money, and power allowed!
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#182944 - 05/31/11 02:50 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
Dear numan;

This is only a small part of what is happening in Eastern California while the path is cleared to install solar panels to fuel ever growing electrical demand. For your enjoyment I present you with the environmentally sound tree muncher:
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#182946 - 05/31/11 07:43 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
If the damaged Fukushima nuclear reactors continue to spew radiation into the atmosphere, ocean, and water table, you'll see "dead zones" around Fukushima. If the problem continues, you'll see expanded "dead zones" and possibly the evacuation of Honshu.

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#183113 - 06/02/11 06:13 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669

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#183893 - 06/08/11 10:38 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802
Curious how so many are so scared of nuke power when these plants of the "Model A" era of design performed pretty well in containing their contents despite being within 100 miles of the epicenter of one of the largest earthquakes ever recorded ! Makes you wonder what "could have been" had the "watermelons" not gotten their way post-TMI and brought a nuclear power industry on the cusp of developing safer and more efficient plants. > Mech

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#183895 - 06/08/11 11:04 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Mechanic]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 5879
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Mechanic
Curious how so many are so scared of nuke power when these plants of the "Model A" era of design performed pretty well in containing their contents despite being within 100 miles of the epicenter of one of the largest earthquakes ever recorded ! Makes you wonder what "could have been" had the "watermelons" not gotten their way post-TMI and brought a nuclear power industry on the cusp of developing safer and more efficient plants. > Mech


You must not have got the memo from Tea Party Central, but Wikipedia now supposedly lists folks who use the pejorative term "watermelons" to be right wingnuts. 10 demerits for uncredibility. 20 demerits for lack of original thinking. nono
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
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#183909 - 06/09/11 08:55 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4889
Watermelons? To whom does that refer?

Yours in ignorance, which is treatable by information injections
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#183915 - 06/09/11 09:15 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ted Remington]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 5879
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: churlpat lives
Watermelons? To whom does that refer?

Yours in ignorance, which is treatable by information injections


Enviros are like watermelons; green on the outside, red on the inside. In plain speak, it's a throwback to the old "Yer a Pinko Commie!" epithet for anybody one disagrees with.

Yawn...
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
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#183917 - 06/09/11 10:32 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: logtroll]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6349
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Should we worry more about peacetime nuclear power problems than about nuclear weapons?
Nuclear power plants

So far, there are 440+ nuclear plants, with another 65 under construction... (mostly in China). The total estimated output is about 375,000 megawatts, enough to power about 375 million homes (a rough average estimate world wide).

The total number of worldwide nuclear incidents is open to question, but there have more than 100 significant reportable problems.

Whether by terrorist attack, accident or war, the potential for death is rather high. For in idea of the death rates, the studies on Hiroshima and Nagasaki are Here.

About 100,000 casualties.. About the same as the total of all US military war deaths since WWII.
War Casualties (deaths)
Certainly puts a sense of perspective on our worries about SS or Medicare going broke in the next 10 to 30 years. Or, perhaps the concerns over saving whales, or whooping cranes.

Am considering re-instituting my National Worry Bureau Website, to provide some guidelines on where we should spend our "worry" hours.
_________________________
In what concerns you much, do not think that you have companions: know that you are alone in the world. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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#183921 - 06/09/11 11:51 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: itstarted]
Greger Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 11848
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Am considering re-instituting my National Worry Bureau Website, to provide some guidelines on where we should spend our "worry" hours.

Some folks just enjoy worrying. It's really not a constructive pastime though, even if you worry about the really important things. I try not to worry much about anything beyond my own sphere of influence. This thing in Japan will pass, just like the Gulf oil spill will pass. Just like Chernobyl has passed. There are consequences and sometimes loss of life, there will be new and other terrible occurrences in the near and far future, just as there were in the past.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#183963 - 06/09/11 10:41 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: itstarted]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#183964 - 06/09/11 10:42 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
Am considering re-instituting my National Worry Bureau Website, to provide some guidelines on where we should spend our "worry" hours.

Some folks just enjoy worrying. It's really not a constructive pastime though, even if you worry about the really important things. I try not to worry much about anything beyond my own sphere of influence. This thing in Japan will pass, just like the Gulf oil spill will pass. Just like Chernobyl has passed. There are consequences and sometimes loss of life, there will be new and other terrible occurrences in the near and far future, just as there were in the past.
Wisdom

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#209386 - 01/18/12 03:01 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
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#209401 - 01/18/12 04:28 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Some people here are confusing "worry" with intelligent study of the facts and their consequences. The latter is commendable and sensible, the wasting of emotional energy without productive results is not.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#209433 - 01/18/12 10:02 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#213998 - 02/25/12 01:18 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
USGS Measures Fallout from Fukushima in US NADP Precipitation Samples
Los Angeles and Southern California may be interested in this report.

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#214023 - 02/25/12 02:36 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Greger Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 11848
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Some people here are confusing "worry" with intelligent study of the facts and their consequences. The latter is commendable and sensible, the wasting of emotional energy without productive results is not.


So have you achieved some productive results regarding the Japanese nuclear meltdown?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#214027 - 02/25/12 03:08 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'

Yes, I have gained more data points in my extended study of human idiocy.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#214058 - 02/25/12 08:00 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Slipped Mickey Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/23/99
Posts: 12226
Loc: Land of Burnt Dirt
Originally Posted By: numan
'

Yes, I have gained more data points in my extended study of human idiocy.


It is with some difficulty that I tell you this Numan, but from what I have read, as late as this afternoon, people in your part of the world will likely be the first to be diagnosed with thyroids the size of NBA basketballs. Thank Fukushima for that. When you see 38 pound tomatoes, it might be passed time for you to mix a few iodine martinis and beat feet to Uruguay.
_________________________
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You, you and you, panic. The rest of you follow me.

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#214081 - 02/26/12 08:30 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Slipped Mickey]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
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Evacuate Tokyo and All US Forces From Japan
Quote:
(San Francisco) Widely known Physicist Dr Paolo Scampa, the publisher of the EU AIPRI Blog and an eminent chemical physicist, announced today his latest calculations of deadly radioactivity in Tokyo itself. Both the nuclear regulatory and media responses have been missing in action.

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#214102 - 02/26/12 03:13 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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Since the US government took no interest in the poisoning of US citizens in Nevada and Utah from atom bomb testing, nor any concern about its "honored soldiers" -- let alone the people of Iraq -- being poisoned by depleted uranium, I am sure we can expect no action to taken to protect Americans living in Japan.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#214106 - 02/26/12 03:41 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4889
Just as we are certain that you have to insert your patented anti-American screeches into every thread.
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#214111 - 02/26/12 03:50 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'

And thank you, Churl, for your ever predictable meaningless comment -- completely unconnected with the topic of the thread.
Good show, Mr. Moderator.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#214142 - 02/26/12 10:16 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Originally Posted By: numan
'
Since the US government took no interest in the poisoning of US citizens in Nevada and Utah from atom bomb testing, nor any concern about its "honored soldiers" -- let alone the people of Iraq -- being poisoned by depleted uranium, I am sure we can expect no action to taken to protect Americans living in Japan.
You're probably right.

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#214150 - 02/26/12 11:27 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Slipped Mickey Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/23/99
Posts: 12226
Loc: Land of Burnt Dirt
Originally Posted By: numan
'
Since the US government took no interest in the poisoning of US citizens in Nevada and Utah from atom bomb testing, nor any concern about its "honored soldiers" -- let alone the people of Iraq -- being poisoned by depleted uranium, I am sure we can expect no action to taken to protect Americans living in Japan.


You may be correct, but it's going to mean sweet feck all to your glowing self in Vancouver. Canada is being open with you guys about it? I haven't heard.
_________________________
____________________



You, you and you, panic. The rest of you follow me.

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#214159 - 02/27/12 01:56 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Slipped Mickey]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
What Mick? Ya mean my dear friend numan might die at 88.7 years instead of 88.8?
Schikes--I just looked at the map. I’m right in line too for the glowing.
Gotta go.
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#214161 - 02/27/12 02:09 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Slipped Mickey]
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11117
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: Slipped Mickey


You may be correct, but it's going to mean sweet feck all to your glowing self in Vancouver. Canada is being open with you guys about it? I haven't heard.


Well, the ol' tin foil had should finally be useful for something tinfoilhat
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

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#214868 - 03/03/12 06:22 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ardy]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#214871 - 03/03/12 06:54 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#214907 - 03/03/12 01:35 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
Dear Ann in this case might not be too far off base:

Quote:
All living organisms evolved and exist in a sea of ionizing radiation, much of which is internal. It is a general belief that low doses of ionizing radiation produce detrimental effects proportional to the effects produced by high-level radiation. Over the past decades, however, some pioneer scientists reported that low-dose ionizing radiation is not only a harmless agent but often has a beneficial or hormetic effect. That is, low-level ionizing radiation may be an essential trace energy for life, analogous to essential trace elements. It has been even suggested that about one third of all cancer deaths are preventable by increasing our low dose radiation.

Link

The Japanese for years have used radioactive hot water spas (they contain radium) for what they believed to be its healing powers.

Also on your linked top map Joe I saw all the little dots floating around but curiously there were none near Japan. Japan was clear as could be. How could/did that happen?
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#214924 - 03/03/12 03:10 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#215921 - 03/11/12 09:18 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#215983 - 03/11/12 08:38 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802
Curious !

Most technical reports I've read to date note the "core meltdowns" were completely contained ! That is all of the fissile material - sans what was lost to venting - was been contained within the reactors and/or the "containment structures" ; as per design ! So where did all the "contaminants come from ?

I suspect the "accident" occurred before the tsunami arrived ! The quake shook hell out of the spent fuel pools sited at the top of the reactor structures, slopping water overboard, exposing the tops of fuel bundles. Lacking the moderating/cooling effects of the pool, the bundles overheated causing the zirconium cladding to oxidize until the "fuel pellets" contained within the rods were exposed and began to oxidize. It was at this point serious long-term contaminants began to enter the local environment !

"Fixing" the problem - ISFAR of the effected reactors isn't a major issue. Rehabing the surrounding areas is another issue ! But of greater concern is the geo-political consequences of this accident. Japan needs nuclear power to fuel its economy.
Driving it back to a reliance upon fossil fuels is to recreate the scenario leading up to the Pearl Harbour debacle ! >Mech

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#215989 - 03/11/12 09:44 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Mechanic]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
Mech: Japan needs nuclear power to fuel its economy.
Driving it back to a reliance upon fossil fuels is to recreate the scenario leading up to the Pearl Harbour debacle ! >Mech

And that-it seems-is what they are planning to do. Although I don’t see Japan starting another war over resources. Hopefully.
But one way or another they need and will use massive amounts of electrical power to fuel their economic and domestic wants, and they will get it one way or another. Coal and NG from the US and elsewhere and/or nuclear. “Green” energy will help somewhat but not for the mega gigawatts they require.
_________________________
The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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#216001 - 03/12/12 07:24 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Mechanic]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
The Dangerous Myths of Fukushima
Quote:
Where did the radioactive particles and gases go? Officials from national meteorological agencies in countries like France and Austria followed the plume, and made colorful maps available on the internet. Within six days of the meltdowns, the plume had reached the U.S., and within 18 days, it had circled the Northern Hemisphere.

Quote:
Finally, how many people were harmed by Fukushima in the short term? Official studies have chipped away at the oft-repeated claim that nobody died from Fukushima. Last month brought the news that 573 deaths in the area near the stricken reactors were certified by coroners as related to the nuclear crisis, with dozens more deaths to be reviewed. Another survey showed that births near Fukushima declined 25% in the three months following the meltdowns. One physician speculated that many women chose to deliver away from Fukushima, but an increase in stillbirths remains as a potential factor. In British Columbia, the number of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome deaths was 10 in the first three months after Fukushima, up from just one a year before.

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#216002 - 03/12/12 07:27 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669

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#216051 - 03/12/12 07:38 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802

I take it then you're in the "wishing will make it so" camp regarding Japan's energy alternatives, KH ! OTOH, here's a ripe opportunity for the "green energy revolution" proponents to demonstrate an industrial economy can thrive on "renewables" !! >Mech

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#219235 - 04/07/12 09:03 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#219299 - 04/08/12 12:21 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#220668 - 04/22/12 11:43 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Storm in a hot tub
Clean bodies versus clean energy

Quote:
For decades, onsen owners have stifled development of a huge potential source of clean energy: geothermal power....Three Japanese companies—Toshiba, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Fuji Electric—control more than half of the global market for geothermal turbines, yet Japan itself gets a mere 0.3% of its energy, or 537 megawatts, from its own steam....Since the disaster at Fukushima last year, all but one of the nation’s 54 nuclear reactors are now temporarily suspended, reducing Japan’s power-generating capacity by about a third. That has accelerated the search for alternatives....
Iceland’s ambassador to Japan, Stefan Stefansson, says his country’s experience suggests Japan does not need subsidies to develop geothermal energy. It needs careful management of underground reservoirs, and an entrepreneurial vision. Besides heating houses, he says, Iceland’s geothermal water is used for farming tasty tropical fish such as tilapia. As for the onsen-owners’ protests, he snorts: “Go to your computer and type in “Blue Lagoon”. There you will find the biggest onsen in the world and we have them all over Iceland. How’s that for pollution?”
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#221204 - 04/29/12 01:51 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
Japan Professor Grim Radiation Prediction: The End of Japan March 31, 2015 Notice that you rarely hear anything anymore about Fukushima in MSM? Maybe it's no longer newsworthy? Maybe the threat not genuine?

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#221429 - 05/01/12 08:33 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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#222496 - 05/13/12 12:01 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
Disinformation On Every Front

Quote:
Across every front Americans are fed lies.
The official media line is that the Japanese Fukushima nuclear threat from the earthquake and aftermath is well contained and over. However, the fact of the matter appears to be that an amazing radioactive inventory of both spent and unused fuel rods is in damaged cooling pools that could suffer collapse at any time (especially if there is another earthquake), thus releasing enormous radioactivity (reference link). This possibility presents a greater threat than the initial molten cores of the reactors themselves. Michael Chossudovsky points out that the media is yet to acknowledge the widespread contamination resulting from the Fukushima disaster, and there may be worse to come.
But who cares? Back to the Matrix and the “reality show.”

Paul Craig Roberts was an editor of the Wall Street Journal and an Assistant Secretary of the U.S. Treasury. He was awarded the Treasury Department's Meritorious Service Award for "his outstanding contributions to the formulation of United States economic policy."
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#222551 - 05/13/12 05:44 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   content
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10321
Loc: Downey, California
I don't know what to say right at this moment, other than "the sh*t just got real", because I am still gathering up my thoughts, which are many.

But yeah, sh*t just got real.
The possibility of another significant temblor is far too great to ignore and if that #4 topples over it could result in a global killer.

I am absolutely amazed that the world's governments and banks have not convened some kind of emergency meeting to discuss a superfund and crisis management scenario of some kind.

I dunno, is everyone just too damn cheap and stingy, they don't want to pay to clean this up? They think it can be ignored and it will just go away?

I mean really, is this some kind of nouveau-libertarian "let THEM clean it up, we shouldn't have to support those Japanese moochers" thing?

This isn't like some kid jacking off who just "wants to do it till he needs glasses". There is no "just till we need glasses" moment in this situation, we're teetering on the verge of a spectacular and rather enormous threat to the entire planet.

And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care.
They'll sure as f**k care when the damn thing tips over though, won't they?

_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#222570 - 05/13/12 08:07 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8669
This is something that the UN should be involved in.

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#222575 - 05/13/12 10:27 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   content
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10321
Loc: Downey, California
Again, everyone seems to be kicking the can down the road.
It really does seem like the powers that be are engaging in some kind of "objectivist" attitude that seems to say, "We shouldn't be forced to pay for someone else's mistake. They don't DESERVE the help."

Really, how different is this from the appeal we constantly hear for help to the poor, help to the jobless, the homeless, those who cannot afford medical treatment, the appeal for better roads, schools, infrastructure?

"Why should I/we be forced to share my/our hard earned money to solve someone else's problems? Let them fend for themselves, it's their laziness/lack of education/background/grooming/whatever that led them to this and it's not my/our problem."

Appeal to the United Nations? There's a faction in American society that loves to make claims about the inability of American government to accomplish anything or do anything right.

Compared to the United Nations our American government looks mighty good.
The UN is one of the most dysfunctional organizations in history.
They actually manage to create more problems than they solve.

We love to talk about congressional gridlock and infighting.
A day at the UN makes our congress look positively streamlined and appear as a wonder of organizational efficiency and harmony.

Member nations will fight about anything and everything.

This is a problem which requires NASA level technical coordination and massive amounts of money. There's no room for infighting or stinginess.

Hollywood has made tons of money doing movies about invading alien species and the script almost always portrays a world suddenly united in response to their common enemy, working in sudden harmony to protect their common interest, survival itself.

"Independence Day" grossed 306 million dollars.

Hey, if ever there was a real life drama that could outdo Independence Day, I think this is it. If #4 gets cracked, there won't be anymore UN, there won't be any more objectivists, there won't be any more libertarians, there will only be seven billion people condemned to a slow death by radiation poisoning.

The term "global killer" is overused.

Not this time. This IS the one time where it might actually be an understatement. This truly could kill off almost all life on Earth for a very very long time. This truly could wipe out the entire human race in less than a generation and I would hate to be alive three years after this mega catastrophe hits its peak.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#222584 - 05/13/12 11:33 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 11848
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I would hate to be alive three years after this mega catastrophe hits its peak.

I hate to point this out, Jeffrey, but you very likely will be alive three years after this mega catastrophe hits its peak. You're even planning to move a couple thousand miles closer to it.
I agree with you as far as the UN goes. They are generally a useless organization. The world in general is so beset with financial woes right now that I'm not sure where the money is going to come from to fix this thing. Our congress is certainly not going to shell out taxpayer funds to avoid global extinction when there are banks needing to be bailed out with that money.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#222585 - 05/13/12 11:44 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   content
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10321
Loc: Downey, California
Yes I WILL be alive but I said I would HATE to be alive if that #4 ever does crack open, because I know I would be facing a future filled with the effects of radiation poisoning. My wife already IS a radiation victim thanks to her duties at the Hunter's Point Naval Shipyard.

Our son is a secondary victim, with all the heart defects found in your typical Chernobyl area baby. In fact his cardiologist specifically made the point that Daryl's heart defects are remarkably similar to "Chernobyl Heart" kids.

Yes, I AM moving thousands of miles closer.
I have to be two people at once in this thing, the guy who has to move to get back into the kind of work I was born to do at rates that more closely match what I deserve to make after thirty years in the business, the guy who wants to be with the rest of his family, including his 91 year old mother in the last days of her life, the guy whose wife cannot function six months out of the year because of the crippling heat...

...and the guy who worries that it will be a nightmare if the unthinkable happens.

It's kinda like worrying about "The Big One" earthquake if it ever does come to the L.A. Area. We know it's coming sooner or later, or at least we know it is highly likely, but people have to live their lives.

I have to live my life in the meantime too.

And like I said, it really won't matter all that much if that vessel disintegrates in another massive quake, it will not matter where any of us live anymore after that.

Read the articles and ponder the numbers. Simply put they're talking about 85 times the amount of release from Chernobyl at the minimum. And they're actually trying to sugar coat those numbers.

If this happens, that stuff will go everywhere across the planet...EVERYWHERE. Not just Southern California.

Texas, Illinois, Florida, Pango Pango and Botswana, it doesn't matter. It will be like a bad case of diarrhea.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#222587 - 05/14/12 12:56 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 2781
Loc: Eugene, OR
Jeff, I thought you had a reasonable mind regarding this sort of thing. Possibly we could all die from radiation poisoning spewed from Fukushima, but I think that is highly unlikely. Are you aware of the background of the videoed Mr. Akio Matsumura?

He is-for all intensive porpoises-a religious leader. OK, that’s fine and good. The world needs those--sometimes. Depending on the brand that is. Preferably the preferred brand. Non Abrahamic. That makes him “good”--no? None of that Jesus or Muhammad stuff.

But he is not a scientist. Does anyone/no one see the irony in that? Especially those proclaiming their agnosticism. Or atheism. And hysteria of “religion” being shoved down our throats.

Of course he might be the religious leader some want to see, hear, and follow. He is not of the Hebrew, Christian, or Islamist persuasion. He is only of the “spiritual” persuasion-- hence he should be listened to. He has credence and is not encumbered with the baggage of the “big three.”

Quotes from the esteemed Mr. Matsumura:

Quote:
That we, one and all, are governed by two sets of laws: spiritual/religious law and political/state law. Political lawmakers are able to take action in the short term, but are often curtailed by narrow, short-sighted interest groups. Spiritual/religious laws emphasize long term vision but often lack the ability to make immediate change. Although it is difficult, we must reconcile these two systems of governance in our approach to all of humanity’s major issues: peace, population, hunger, religious/ethnic conflict.
That the conflict between Islam and the West will be the greatest cause of violence throughout this century, but that it is only one manifestation of ideological clashes. Cultural, national, tribal, and religious borders have always existed but now intersect more frequently, leading to greater levels of violence. One great need is to transcend ideological–cultural, religious, political–barriers by emphasizing commonalities instead of differences.


Societal meltdown if you will. The conflict between Islam and the West that is.


Edited by Ken Condon (05/14/12 01:00 AM)
Edit Reason: noone no wan
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#222594 - 05/14/12 06:58 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Joe Keegan Offline
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#222602 - 05/14/12 12:33 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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Ken thank you so much for taking such efforts to discuss ONE individual.
But I don't see that it has much to do with the situation at Fukushima.

There are many other eminent and qualified people warning about the situation, and the immense quantity of radioactive poison is still hanging precariously in the air.
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#222622 - 05/14/12 02:38 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Greger Offline
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We're just going to have to wait for those eminent and qualified people to convince others of their eminence and qualifications and get them (whomever they may be) to leap into concerted and correct action.
I suggest we all cross our fingers and hope that the worst does not occur. If it doesn't work out that way then perhaps this is the answer to our population problems.

I don't like to fret too much about worse case scenarios.


Edited by Greger (05/14/12 02:40 PM)
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#222644 - 05/14/12 11:50 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
Ken Condon Offline
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Quote:
If it doesn't work out that way then perhaps this is the answer to our population problems.


Eggs zackley. Thanks for saying that greger--you spared me from such utterances. The global problem is not a shortage of anything. It is an overabundance of people.

Mostly wanting stuff. The more the “merrier”.

End of story.
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#222657 - 05/15/12 11:40 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
numan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greger

If it doesn't work out that way then perhaps this is the answer to our population problems.

A chaotic, wasteful, worst-case solution.

Quote:
I suggest we all cross our fingers and hope that the worst does not occur....
I don't like to fret too much about worse case scenarios.

It is because people did not fret that the Second World War occurred.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#222660 - 05/15/12 12:16 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greger
The world in general is so beset with financial woes right now that I'm not sure where the money is going to come from to fix this thing. Our congress is certainly not going to shell out taxpayer funds to avoid global extinction when there are banks needing to be bailed out with that money.

Magic words of Alaka Zam!! and you can have as much matériel, labour and money as you want!!

All you need to do is institute a Command Economy such as existed in the United States during the Second World War · · or as existed in the Soviet Union. · · grin
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#222683 - 05/15/12 05:24 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ken Condon]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
Jeff, I thought you had a reasonable mind regarding this sort of thing. Possibly we could all die from radiation poisoning spewed from Fukushima, but I think that is highly unlikely. Are you aware of the background of the videoed Mr. Akio Matsumura?


---No because in all honesty I hadn't watched the clip of Akio Matsumura, which one is it?

All I know so far is, all four units are screwed, and one is extra screwed and at risk of collapse if they get hit with another temblor, and that the contents of that unit is some pretty bad stuff, worse than originally admitted.

Am I wrong somewhere on that?
I am trying to be reasonable, hence my moving back to Los Angeles. If I really WAS unreasonable I'd be moving as far away from "El Lay" as possible.


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (05/15/12 05:26 PM)
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#222695 - 05/15/12 09:29 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Greger Offline
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Quote:
It is because people did not fret that the Second World War occurred.

Au contraire, mon frère, The Great Depression began in 1929. There was a great deal of fretting going on about the economy, jobs, the wealth gap, a socialist in the white house, and world politics in general, but World War 2 did not begin for a full decade and the US didn't enter the fray for another two years!
There was plenty of fretting going on and the lack thereof cannot, I say cannot, be held up as the reason for the Second World War. Then, just as now, Germany and Japan were at the root of some of the worlds largest problems. History has taken an almost surreal twist in that Jews were the victims of an attempted genocide during that period(and fretted mightily I might add) but they are now engaged in it themselves after having usurped a portion of the middle east. Japan, whose imperial ambitions were once subdued by an Atomic Bomb, has now become an Atomic Bomb.
The eyes of the world then, as now, were on the economic situation in Germany; fretting was underway on a worldwide scale.
You may choose to fret about all of this, even lose sleep if you wish. I on the other hand will take Horace's advice:
Dum loquimur, fugerit invida
Aetas: carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero
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#222714 - 05/16/12 05:29 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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- are 'toxic uniforms' really to blame or is it Fukushima? I'll guess radiation and bet that the danger to airline personnel and passengers, because of the Fukushima radiation in the upper atmosphere, won't get much- if any- MSM attention.

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#222720 - 05/16/12 09:03 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Greger Offline
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Quote:
won't get much- if any- MSM attention.


Sure it will, Joe, as soon as it becomes fact instead of speculation.
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#222721 - 05/16/12 09:24 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Oh, you mean like the massive coverage that Fukushima itself received?

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#222726 - 05/16/12 10:34 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Greger Offline
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Massive coverage? It was reported in the news as it occurred, as was the rest of the Japanese earthquake and Tsunami aftermath. It continues to be covered worldwide as more facts become available.
Fukushima News
Perhaps what you want is 24 hour panic stricken coverage on every media outlet? This is a slow moving catastrophe, expensive and difficult to deal with. If you are genuinely concerned perhaps you should volunteer to go help clean up the mess.
Again, I am of the mind that one of these days one of these catastrophes will serve to reduce the world population to sustainable levels. Whether the world population includes humans at that point is irrelevant.
The Fukushima disaster is certainly worth discussion and speculation, even a letter to your congressman for whatever that might be worth. Donations to the cause would probably be appreciated as well and, as I said, perhaps join with the elderly Japanese heroes who have offered to work in the place of younger citizens in what is surely a suicidal mission to help clean this mess up. Me, I;m going to watch it all unfold, hope for the best possible outcome, and continue my life without fretting a great deal about it. Believe me, Joe, I am not completely callous to the situation and understand that this, like so many other things, is a threat to the very existence of our species. But that said, I have more personal and more immediate things in my life to fret about.
Perhaps when my own personal struggles are over I will find some time to genuinely fret about the situation in Japan.
Do please fret your little heart out though, we have numan's assurance that sufficient fretting will prevent the next world war.
wink
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#222735 - 05/16/12 12:56 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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Sufficient fretting, the right sort of fretting and at the right time, would have prevented the Second World War. At a certain point, the inertia of the forces involved make fretting useless.

We have probably already passed the point where fretting can prevent world collapse.
Continued fretting may have some influence on whether it is total collapse, or merely catastrophic collapse.
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#222736 - 05/16/12 01:00 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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By the way, the English word "fret" is etymologically identical with the German word "fressen" -- the term used for animals eating.
Animals "fressen" (gobble), humans "essen" (eat).
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#222760 - 05/16/12 05:38 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Ken Condon Offline
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Quote:
humans "essen"


Quit M-essen with me. Or us as it may be. When the world goes to Helena Hand-basket (they are made by hand and of truly exquisite quality ) the ride will be the part to remember. I have for many years heard the admonition "Enjoy the journey”.

It’s the journey--not the destination.
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#222769 - 05/16/12 09:50 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Originally Posted By: numan
We have probably already passed the point where fretting can prevent world collapse.
Continued fretting may have some influence on whether it is total collapse, or merely catastrophic collapse.
You may be right.

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#222770 - 05/16/12 09:52 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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#222774 - 05/16/12 11:44 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Greger Offline
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Quote:
total collapse, or merely catastrophic collapse.

Either way, just think of it as growing pains on the way to a genuinely civilized society. It will neither be the first nor the last collapse whether it be total or just catastrophic. IT will be perhaps the largest collapse in history due only to the ridiculously overgrown population.
Numan, I feel that both you and Joe fail to see the positive aspects of the collapse you are fretting(eating?) about..
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#222778 - 05/17/12 01:03 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
total collapse, or merely catastrophic collapse.
IT will be perhaps the largest collapse in history due only to the ridiculously overgrown population.
No. Derivatives: Gambling debts shifted onto the backs of the people of the world.

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#222779 - 05/17/12 01:06 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
Joe Keegan Offline
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#222869 - 05/18/12 06:27 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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#223094 - 05/19/12 05:47 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
itstarted Offline
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Pacific Ocean Dying

An apocalyptical update overview. Friday May 18.

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#223161 - 05/20/12 09:19 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: itstarted]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Can't dump that amount of radioactive water into the Pacific without catastrophic consequences. A world response is required to deal with this disaster.

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#223345 - 05/21/12 11:13 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
itstarted Offline
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Nuclear Regulatory Commission Chairman Steps Down

Politics and money once again trump safety, sensibility and the environment.
As grubby as it gets.

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#223364 - 05/21/12 01:55 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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Quote:
"I am confident whomever replaces Chairman Jaczko will share his commitment to protecting the safety of the American people over the interests of a single industry"....Reid said.

Ohmygod! Someone who supports turning the Earth into a radioactive wasteland and who cannot master elementary English grammar and is an American senator!!

More evidence of the Age of Great Stupidity!!
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#223378 - 05/21/12 03:04 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Ted Remington Offline
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Stick to the subject, please, numan.
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#223382 - 05/21/12 03:53 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Greger Offline
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Numan, you've missed the point here. Senator Reid and the former head of the commission are both dedicated to the improved safety in the industry. That is why the chairman was forced out by the Industry.(and REPUBLICANS)
Although I personally am in favor of burying nuclear waste in the salt mines of Nevada one can hardly blame Sen Reid for being very much against his state becoming a dumping ground for nuclear waste. It's gotta go somewhere and we are now pretty certain that the Pacific Ocean is not such a good repository.
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#223384 - 05/21/12 04:15 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
itstarted Offline
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ahem
proverbs 16:18
hubris

coffee

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#223413 - 05/21/12 10:26 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Greger Offline
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Now you're off topic Numan. Please start a new topic to discuss the enormous size of your head.
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#223417 - 05/21/12 11:25 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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Ah, I see my mistake.

I should have answered Itstarted's erroneous off-topic comment, addressed to me, in a private communication to him.
Will do so.


Edited by numan (05/21/12 11:30 PM)
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#223664 - 05/24/12 11:39 AM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Nuclear disaster spreads to houses, food. World (UN) effort is imperative to deal with this extinction level event now.

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#225202 - 06/08/12 02:26 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Fukushima Special tomorrow night on Coast to Coast am for those interested.

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#225556 - 06/12/12 03:39 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
numan Offline
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A Radioactive Nightmare
As fallout from Fukushima heads our way, the government turns a blind eye

Quote:
High radiation readings in Santa Monica and Los Angeles....
Both stations registered over 5.3 times normal....
...sea water infused with radiation of the sort spewing out of Fukushima can travel inland from the coast up to 300 kilometers. These mobile poisons include cesium-137 and plutonium-239, the latter with a half-life of 24,400 years....
...the state and federal governments cut off special testing for Fukushima radionuclides more than half a year ago....
Radioactive fallout in St. Louis, Mo. rainfall...has been repeatedly so hot that levels have been reached that make it unsafe for children and pregnant women....2.76 millirems per hour or more than 270 times background....
Southern California is still getting hit by Fukushima radiation at alarmingly high levels that will inevitably increase as the main bulk of polluted Pacific Ocean water reaches North America over the next two years.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#225565 - 06/12/12 06:43 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Ozymanithrax]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   content
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Judging from the overall import of the information in the article, it doesn't seem like there's ANYTHING anyone can do short of building their own personal underground shelter and disappearing for the rest of the century.

What else CAN we do?
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#225574 - 06/12/12 08:09 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline
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Quote:
What else CAN we do?

Well, I hate to bring it up, Jeff, but at least you could consider not moving into the area worst hit so far, and which will continue to be slammed by nuclear fallout throughout the lifetime of this event.

A time will come, in the not too distant future, when government will pull its head out of its ass and address this problem. It is entirely possible that "Those Who Know More Than We Do" have already decided there is really nothing to be done.
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#225578 - 06/12/12 08:20 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/25/10
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I'm thinking of moving to a swamp in Florida...
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#225640 - 06/13/12 05:18 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
Jeffery J. Haas Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
What else CAN we do?

Well, I hate to bring it up, Jeff, but at least you could consider not moving into the area worst hit so far, and which will continue to be slammed by nuclear fallout throughout the lifetime of this event.

A time will come, in the not too distant future, when government will pull its head out of its ass and address this problem. It is entirely possible that "Those Who Know More Than We Do" have already decided there is really nothing to be done.


Can't stay in Texas, Greger. I am not old and doddering enough to walk around in retirement clothing, gumming my 4:30 PM dinner special at IHOP and my wife won't tolerate passing out from heatstroke from the simple act of opening the front door.

I'm 55 now. Anything that radiation might do, I probably already did it and anything that might happen will take about twenty years to happen and by that time I'll be 75.

Good enough for me. I'd love to live to 135 but we know the only ones who will have access to that technology will be the one percenters. There will be people like us, the 1% and the ones who manage to stay healthy will be hunted down as Freejacks.

And remember Greger, when it comes to exposure to ionizing radiation, my wife has more of it floating around than the rest of Reader Rant COMBINED.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#225652 - 06/13/12 08:55 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline
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Quote:
I'm thinking of moving to a swamp in Florida...
Them buckeyballs are just sucked into the swamp here and are never heard from again.
But the heat! Nobody goes outside much this time of year. The air is so thick now that moss is growing on it.
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#225653 - 06/13/12 09:02 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Greger Offline
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Registered: 11/24/06
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Quote:
I'm 55 now. Anything that radiation might do, I probably already did it

Isn't it great when you realize that you're already too old to die young.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#225656 - 06/13/12 09:36 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 5879
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Greger
Quote:
I'm thinking of moving to a swamp in Florida...
Them buckeyballs are just sucked into the swamp here and are never heard from again.
But the heat! Nobody goes outside much this time of year. The air is so thick now that moss is growing on it.

Uhhh... I was coming to mooch victuals offa you. Maybe bring you a real Jeep.
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#225661 - 06/13/12 10:53 PM Re: Fukushima 'Full Meltdown' Made Official [Re: logtroll]
Greger Offline
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If you can get one of them FCs running, bring it on down!
I'm gonna be moving into a Mall Crawler soon as we locate an engine for it.
My new WJ...

Melt this down Beyotch!
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