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#184616 - 06/16/11 03:02 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Joe Keegan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan

Stop these endless inane wars that just enrich the few and bring so much tragedy to so many people, and bring our troops home.



Yes, sir!! · · ·
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#184620 - 06/16/11 03:25 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6330
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins


Phil,
You can bring up the union employees all you want, it doesn't matter. The public is not in favor of higher taxes, there is no political will in Congress to antagonize the voting public by raising taxes and even if there were a faction that wanted to do it there are not enough of them to pass a tax increase. People are hurting and taking money from them by increasing taxes would be suicidal. I appreciate your politics, and I understand how you think about an investment in society, but eventually you have to deal with the political reality that America will not tolorate high taxes, no matter how much daddy government is promised. People are pissed, they do not like Washington right now. They elected political neophites to the House as a protest against the way business is being done. Teachers are not necessarily the problem, but the teacher's union is a large part of the problem, public employees are a part of the problem, but the inability to reduce their numbers is a major part of the oproblems facing America today. NPR, PBS, what the hell is America doing with broadcast radio and TV stations? The only broadcatentity that the Fed should control is Radio Free {fill in the place}.

You have the power, use it. I work every week on some political program or another. Come election season I will be working 5 nights a week and every other Saturday on politics. I believe that the process will work for me eventually, and I believe that the power will naturally gravitate toward those who work the hardest to accumulate it. I am just an ordinary schmuch who works for a living, yet I am on first name basis with my Senator, my County AG and Sheriff, my city manager and the MA State GOP chairman. People are politics, donations are the heating oil. Without the working shlumbs, the most polished politician cannot get elected. with the right staff, Joe Biden becomes VP

The crash was a result of many things, including Congress' willingness to tell business what they should do and who they should loan money to. The next crash will come when the first major city or state defaults on their pention responsibilities. A couple f states are trying to stay solvent, but by far the largest danger I see is pention responsibility.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#184623 - 06/16/11 03:39 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Ma_Republican]
Chuck Howard Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/17/01
Posts: 6723
Loc: Philly 'burbs
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
Originally Posted By: Chuck Howard
CS, you are way too generous. 5 years??? My goodness, the right gave President Obama less than two years to work miracles...and you're giving them 5??? Typical sissy liberal!

Heck, Tim was declaring the President a failure just months after he was inaugurated because the stock market was down a few points.


Actually, I was praising the President for the stock markets early performance. Somewhere in the achives ai a thread called "Nice Job Mr. President", talk about blowing smoke up somebody's ass, I was a down right convert.


I think you are having a memory failure.

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#184624 - 06/16/11 03:43 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Ma_Republican]
Chuck Howard Offline
old hand

Registered: 09/17/01
Posts: 6723
Loc: Philly 'burbs
We don't have "high taxes." That is simply a myth that has been sold to the American people. We certainly don't have "high taxes" relative to tax rates in this country for the past 50 years. We certainly don't have high taxes when compared with what we paid in the Eisenhower, Kennedy, Reagan and Clinton administrations. And I'd like to see some support for your assertion that the public has rejected tax increases.

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#184625 - 06/16/11 03:49 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Ma_Republican]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 20594
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Tim none of the unions are the problem. All they did was boost the earnings and benefits of their members up to the level that private employees had at the time. Since then, private employees have been taking it up the rear because companies have gotten away with it.

So you are asking that everyone lower their earnings so that a very very very tiny few can boos theirs to astronomical levels. That is just plain stupidity and chicanery.

Republicans have been able to get enough power in state and federal legislatures to continually underfund pensions and benefits. That is not the fault of the unions, it is the fault of those who were elected, R or D.

In fact, that tiny few are asking all the rest of us to lower our standard of living to that of India so that they can increase theirs by hundreds of times greater.

I certainly am not a religious man but in my reading of the moral giants of the past that is an unconscionable ripoff.

You may think you are safe, but trust me, you are not. If you live long enough, and I hope you do, you will find your pension defunded, your income drop in real dollars.

None of us is safe from the robber barons of today.
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#184630 - 06/16/11 04:32 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Ma_Republican]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
"Those foghts stopped under Clinton, but he did leave a budget surpluss, we still had a deficit bit we were spending less than we took in." (spelling as in original)

That sentence makes absolutely NO sense. We had a deficit but we were spending less than we took in?
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#184642 - 06/16/11 07:17 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Ma_Republican]
loganrbt Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 5846
Loc: Massaphuggintwoshirts
You won't want to listen, but if you take the time to do so, you'll understand why you are so unhappy about the economy and why you're tossing your invective about it in the wrong direction.
http://front.moveon.org/scribbling-sharpie-illustrates-the-truth-about-our-economy/
_________________________
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown

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#184650 - 06/16/11 07:49 PM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Ma_Republican]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
OH MY GOD! You pointed Ma_R to a moveon.org site! Run for the hills!
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#184696 - 06/17/11 07:21 AM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Ted Remington]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6330
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: churlpat lives
"Those foghts stopped under Clinton, but he did leave a budget surpluss, we still had a deficit bit we were spending less than we took in." (spelling as in original)

That sentence makes absolutely NO sense. We had a deficit but we were spending less than we took in?


We still had a dificit, he didn't wipe out all of our excess debt, but our government wasn't spending more money than we took in. It makes perfect sense. Deficits are cumulative, what Clinton did was run a profit. He got lucky, but I can't give him sh!t that the fates looked kindly upon him economically.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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#184698 - 06/17/11 07:46 AM Re: Do not increase the debt limit! [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6330
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
Tim none of the unions are the problem. All they did was boost the earnings and benefits of their members up to the level that private employees had at the time. Since then, private employees have been taking it up the rear because companies have gotten away with it.

So you are asking that everyone lower their earnings so that a very very very tiny few can boos theirs to astronomical levels. That is just plain stupidity and chicanery.

Republicans have been able to get enough power in state and federal legislatures to continually underfund pensions and benefits. That is not the fault of the unions, it is the fault of those who were elected, R or D.

In fact, that tiny few are asking all the rest of us to lower our standard of living to that of India so that they can increase theirs by hundreds of times greater.

I certainly am not a religious man but in my reading of the moral giants of the past that is an unconscionable ripoff.

You may think you are safe, but trust me, you are not. If you live long enough, and I hope you do, you will find your pension defunded, your income drop in real dollars.

None of us is safe from the robber barons of today.


Phil,
We have to look at things from a realistic perspective. It used to be that teachers took a job that they knew didn't pay well, but the benefits made up for the so so pay. Once the teachers union gained control over the local politicians, that all changed. Teachers are now very well paid in most places, have a great benefits package and are driving most towns into bankrupcy. Their salaries make up the largest segment of any local budget and their benefits are still the best in the country. Towns struggle every day to find ways that will allow them to maintain their infrastructure and afford to pay the teachers in town. That is the case in most towns and cities and states. Wisconsin has taken steps to impose a certain amount of sanity into the union negotiations but limiting them to only salary. Even here in Moonbat Central, the legislature is taking away public employee union rights, and we are slightly left of Mao.

The facts are pretty simple to understand, people do not want their taxes raised. people do not like it when the people who are supposed to be their support personel are paid a higher salary with better benefits than they get. People do not want their property taxes to increase because the public employee unions are, in effect, the Sword of Damocles. I have never been into the whole jealousy thing that so many Dems are. I have never asked my neighbor how much he makes, whether his salary represents his value to the community or whether he feels he is overpaid. To tell you the truth it is none of my, or your, business. What is your business is how much the state and local governments pay their employees, whether they have too many or too few, whether it would be fiscally better for the state, city or town to lay off highly paid employees whose job could be done by somebody making less money, whether the current pension system is sustainable and most importantly, whether the people who live in your community can afford to pay the taxes necessary to support the current infrastructure.

Everybody seems to insist that teachers deserve to be paid more, police and fire deserve more, but if the community cannot afford it and the tax payers refuse to pay more, the answer is pretty obvious. They are in order, probably, probably, but sometimes life isn't fair. If the community rfuses, then the employees are screwed. Every job supports a salary structure. Ifthe people who actually pay the bills decide that salaries are too high, then salaries are too high. The definition of Public Employee starts with the word public. If the public is unhappy with their performance, or their bargaining stance, or the salary structure, the the public employees have a decision to make, they can take a pay and benefit cut or they can lay people off, or they can refuse to work. The lower living standards are the result of our politicians not doing their job and not understanding that their actions cause a natural reaction. They are always good at taking mistaken action without thinking about the reaction.

Business is in business to make money and turn a profit. Government is in business to support the citizenry. I blame the government for our situation and see no reason to allow them to borrow any more money. We will not default, that would be illegal. We will not have our bond rating lowered, that is an empty threat driven by politics and political pressure. It is time to grow up and take responsibility for our government because our government has proven that they can no longer be trusted to do the right thing.
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

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