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#186926 - 07/06/11 04:21 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Perfect Fit]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9715
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: Perfect Fit
Originally Posted By: Schlack
A recent study
as shown here... http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/pnas-201102467.pdf

says they've untravestied the lack of warming !

they're saying the extra warming didn't go into the deep ocean,after all ! So instead of "it must have" gone to the deep, it's what didn't exist "mustn't have gone", and we know why !

"Essentially we were just making up that stuff about 'it must be going into the ocean.' "



Your best explanation please for the lack of cooling due to increased sulphur particulates and reduced solar activity in the atmosphere.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#186966 - 07/06/11 07:56 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Ted Remington]
Perfect Fit Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 293
Originally Posted By: churlpat lives
Your post is snidely contemptuous and contentious. You are reading my last response to one of your messages.
I'm taken aback by this post.I can't understand what the problem is, what is being called contemptuous and how it is contemptuous.

It seems very plain talk and every word of it about the subject at hand. Every word. Please explain what is contemptuous about it.

Addendum:

Churlpat, I don't know which words you find offensive in my post.


However, I may be blind to it. I therefore will turn over my post to a moderator, and ask for my post to be edited to fit within guidelines.


Edited by Perfect Fit (07/06/11 10:57 PM)

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#186974 - 07/06/11 08:17 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Stripey]
Perfect Fit Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 293
One may also use scientific definitions in order to really understand what is being said, rather than entertaining popular notions as we also properly might ( the vulgar definition).

alkalinity:
In this case, first, Biology Online general definition. Usually one would see Hydrogen ion as the H+ ion though.
Quote:
Alkalinity

(Science: chemistry) measure of the power of a solution to neutralise hydrogen ions (H_), usually expressed as the equivalent concentration (mg/L) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3).
The purpose here is to find what is being said, and also what would be reasonable to understand it as, from a "layman" perspective.

Another perspective is that of the expert in practical matters related to pH, Alkalinity, hardness, seawater, etc !

... whether reef keeper or engineer or pool maintenance pro.

An expert in reef keeping might have something like a marriage of scientific and lay understanding.

The various terms "General Hardness GH( minerals) and "Carbonate Hardness" kH( eq. of calcium carbonate level ) help us and perhaps confuse, too...they can be related to the terms "hard" and "soft" fresh water, and to "Alkalinity" "Buffering Capacity" and "Basicity" .

Soft water is very low in minerals, the carbonates, whereas hard water is high in them. Most often in nature soft water is the acidic "blackwater" river water pH as low as 4 or so, and often it's very clear, and stained like tea, and hard water is more whitish, lightly basic or "alkaline", pH 7.4 or so with some crater lakes being around pH 9...this general observation about soft water/acidic, hard water/basic, is not always true though. e.g. very soft water can be "basic" too, in unusual circumstances ...just add a touch of baking soda ( sodium bicarbonate).
I see this all as effort to know what is being said, and how it would be understood by others. The groups who use the terms have some differences and some overlap on word usage

This may help,to see a bit of the complexity, as it's a reef keepers understanding.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1918010
Tapwater supplier:
http://www.wqa.org/glossary.cfm?gl=663





Edited by Perfect Fit (07/07/11 01:42 AM)

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#187044 - 07/07/11 03:00 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Stripey]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12006
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
I am curious if it is possible to return this thread/discussion to a few fundamental principles.


Leaving aside the discussion of sheather the climate is changing, and why that may be the case

Do we agree that, for instance, if we were in an ice age, there would be less flooding than now? So in this known case, an increase in climatic temperature increases the risk of flooding.

2. Do we agree that, all other factors equal, warm air hold more moisture than colder air? Does this also not imply more risk of flooding?

3. Lets assume that the climate is changing, wouldn't we expect a consequent (though unpredictable) change in weather patterns? Eve if on balance the net amount of rain were the same, the distribution of that rain might well change. And increased rain in an area unaccustomed to that rain would result in more perceived floods.

I can see why there might be remaining disputes about climate change and its causes. But it does not seem to me to be far fetched to conclude that IF we assume climate change, then there would likely be consequences to that change... and that flooding might well be among the changes that we could see?
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#187051 - 07/07/11 04:20 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Stripey]
Perfect Fit Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 293
"Climate Changed" is a reflection of more or less, of this, or that. It doesn't result in more or less of this or that.

It's a backward look at what already happened


Edited by Perfect Fit (07/07/11 04:20 PM)

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#187111 - 07/08/11 01:06 AM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Stripey]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 802
Hmmm......I guess those glasses of Kool-Aid haven't any ice in them.... >Mech

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#187126 - 07/08/11 02:27 AM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Mechanic]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14282
Loc: Florida
Hrrrrrm. I tried the kool aid. Not enough kick to it.

George Dickel #12 for me. Easy on the ice.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#187160 - 07/08/11 01:19 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Stripey]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4939
ICE? In #12? Please tell me you do not do this.

My father once asked my grandfather, "Pops, why do you drink your whiskey that way?"


"What way?"

"You pour a tumbler full, grab the tumbler in both hands, squeeze your eyes really tight shut, then take big sips from the tumbler."

Der Alte Kocher replied, "Well, son, every time I see whiskey my mouth waters, and I can't stand a weak drink."


Edited by churlpat lives (07/08/11 01:22 PM)
Edit Reason: to add anecdote
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#187168 - 07/08/11 02:57 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Ted Remington]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14282
Loc: Florida

Global warming has increased the rate of the melting ice.

The human race is running out of time and a day will come when ice is a precious commodity. Enjoy it now while it's still plentiful! (Mint Julep)coffee
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#187359 - 07/09/11 06:37 PM Re: Increased flood risk linked to global warming [Re: Schlack]
Perfect Fit Offline
newbie

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 293

Quote:
To find out if the slowdown could be explained, Robert Kaufmann of Boston University in Massachusetts and colleagues used a statistical model of the climate.

They took data collected between 1998 and 2008 on several factors that can affect the climate, including greenhouse gas emissions, incoming radiation from the sun, and sulphur pollution from burning coal and other industrial activities.

Then they plugged the information into their model, ran it for the 1998-2008 period, and asked: does it replicate what global temperatures actually did?
Does this sound proper to you ? That if everything worked out to show a match of what temps had done, with what the model says they should have, then they have an explanation for "lack of enough warming" that does not involve all the extra heat that is assumed to exist( from increasingly higher CO2 levels ) , going into the deep ocean ?

Link from the article
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14527-climate-myths-global-warming-stopped-in-1998.html

"Deep ocean notion gets quietly deep-sixed."

Quote:
Since 1999, however, the heat content of the oceans has increased (despite claims to the contrary). Global warming has certainly not stopped, even if average surface temperatures really have fallen slightly as the Hadley figures suggest.

In the long term, some of the heat being soaked up by the oceans will inevitably spill back into the atmosphere, raising surface temperatures.


So they were saying warming "CERTAINLY HAD NOT STOPPED"; the heat went into the ocean.


Now they're saying it never happened.
Quote:
Global warming temporarily ground to a halt over the last 10 years, thanks to increased pollution from China, the El Niño system in the Pacific, and a slight drop in the energy Earth gets from the sun.


They had just made it all up. Isn't that fun ? Fabricated material presented Aug 2008 for the New Scientist reader.

The 2011 article is not bunk, though. Really !!!

Schlack demands an explanation based on this new story from "New New Scientist".


Edited by Perfect Fit (07/10/11 07:03 AM)

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