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#199863 - 11/11/11 09:24 PM Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into Anot
numan Offline
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Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
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#199871 - 11/11/11 11:18 PM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into Anot [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
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Probably

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#199881 - 11/12/11 01:13 AM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into Anot [Re: numan]
Ardy Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12005
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
if it does happen, we can be sure that it is the fault of Obama
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#199889 - 11/12/11 02:32 AM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into Anot [Re: Ardy]
itstarted Offline
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Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6387
Loc: Florida/Illinois
Well, today is Friday, and the stock market went up again... ups and downs of over 1000 points in a week.
Today's excitement was because the Italian Bond interest went down. The European Central bank began buying bonds again, and this triggered the highly leveraged hedge funds to dump their losers. Like a last chance... This ran through the European, Asian and US Markets. Chartists are having a ball, comparing recession and depression parallels.
The next (now) scary threats are the lowering of ratings on Hungary and soon, probably Austria.
Greece is mush...
France is questionable for numerous reasons, and Germany and France together don't have enough money to help.
Ireland is in so deep, 8% bonds, and an economy starved by government cuts... may be 20 years of pain coming up. Portugal in the same boat as Greece.

... and the talking heads are looking for year end Rally.. Really? US corporations are showing great profits, mostly based on cuts across the board, and not much forward looking effort, despite the rumored trillions in cash.

The leverage... hedging, derivatives and the mortgage losses at the banks and Freddie and Fannie, are all tied into this mess, and no one knows who has, how much or worse, when it will all blow up.

Going to be fun.

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#199909 - 11/12/11 10:55 AM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into Anot [Re: itstarted]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Originally Posted By: itstarted
The leverage... hedging, derivatives and the mortgage losses at the banks and Freddie and Fannie, are all tied into this mess, and no one knows who has, how much or worse, when it will all blow up.

Going to be fun.
Hate to nitpick, but it will be more like an implosion rather than an explosion.

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#199945 - 11/12/11 07:02 PM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into [Re: Joe Keegan]
numan Offline
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Registered: 08/06/08
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'
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan

Hate to nitpick, but it will be more like an implosion rather than an explosion.

Well, a supernova begins with an implosion, and ends with an explosion. · · · wink

Quote:
...a nickel-iron core builds up that cannot produce further outward pressure on the scale needed to support the rest of the structure. It can only support the overlaying mass of the star through the degeneracy pressure of electrons in the core. If the star is sufficiently large, then the iron-nickel core will eventually exceed the Chandrasekhar limit (1.38 solar masses), at which point this mechanism catastrophically fails. The forces holding atomic nuclei apart in the innermost layer of the core suddenly give way, the core implodes due to its own mass, and no further fusion process is available to ignite and prevent collapse this time....The core collapses in on itself with velocities reaching 70,000 km/s (0.23c), resulting in a rapid increase in temperature and density. The energy loss processes operating in the core cease to be in equilibrium. Through photo-disintegration, gamma rays decompose iron into helium nuclei and free neutrons, absorbing energy, while electrons and protons merge via electron capture, producing neutrons and electron neutrinos, which escape.
In a typical Type II supernova the newly formed neutron core has an initial temperature of about 100 billion kelvin (100 GK), 6000 times the temperature of the sun's core. A further release of neutrinos carries away much of the thermal energy....About 10^46 joules of gravitational energy—--approximately 10% of the star's rest mass—--is converted into a ten-second burst of neutrinos, which is the main output of the event. These carry away energy from the core and accelerate the collapse, while some neutrinos are absorbed by the star's outer layers and provide energy to the supernova explosion.

Rather a good metaphor for what is happening to society and economy, isn't it?



Edited by numan (11/12/11 09:50 PM)
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#199949 - 11/12/11 07:10 PM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into Anot [Re: numan]
issodhos Offline
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Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581

We'll see when we get there. Until then, live.:-)
Yours,
Issodhos
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"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#199954 - 11/12/11 07:43 PM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into [Re: issodhos]
numan Offline
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Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
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Originally Posted By: issodhos

We'll see when we get there. Until then, live.

Really, Issodhos! My exalted contemplation of Truth, Beauty, and the One is as much above life as life is above non-living matter.

Vivre? Nos serviteurs le feront pour nous.

"Live? Our servants will do that for us!"
---Villiers de l'Îsle-Adam
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#199960 - 11/12/11 08:09 PM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into [Re: numan]
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8707
Dude, we've got crap like Kim Jong-il in all utopian belief systems. I heard some No. Korea testifying about how some phuck-ups were forcing others to walk into molten metal. Wouldn't surprise me, which is why I think that the US Constitution is the best form of government. Why? Because the benign, well meaning, enlightened dictatorships eventually wind up there.

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#199969 - 11/12/11 08:56 PM Re: Will Europe's Growing Debt Drag the U.S. into [Re: numan]
numan Offline
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Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
I wonder what error of reasoning has led you to believe that what you have written has anything to do with me.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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