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#206448 - 01/01/12 08:15 AM S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act
Joe Keegan Offline
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Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act (House version)
Quote:
A bill to add engaging in or supporting hostilities against the United States to the list of acts for which United States nationals would lose their nationality.
Could food terrorists lose their American citizenship under this bill?

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#206468 - 01/01/12 12:49 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Did you read the bill?

"(c) For purposes of this section, the term ‘hostilities’ means any conflict subject to the laws of war."
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#206482 - 01/01/12 03:00 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Carl Nemo Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 223
Loc: Ridgefield, Wa USA
More traitorous legislation at the hands of Senators Levin, McCain, now Lieberman. They just shoved an amendment, Section 1034 to the NDAA (National Defense Authorization Act) down our throats allowing the military to treat the U.S. as a terrorist battlefield with any citizens rounded up not having charges filed against them, no right to counsel, nullification of posse commitatus (military not being allowed to police U.S. soil) unless martial law is declared) along with indefinite detention until the hostilities are declared over;I.E.,the 'war on terror' which will be the 12th of never.

It's a war against criminal malcontents with a political axe to grind and not another national entity. There's no one to make parley, to sign a peace accord thus a crimpol's dream come true when it comes to bleeding tax debtors white on behalf of their MIC patrons.

http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2011/05/...ceived-or-real/

Now we have this mattoid, Senator Lieberman hatching this monstrosity that no doubt this handclapping 'politburo' once our U.S. Senate will pass no differently than the NDAA while our 'dear leader' will sign off with an apologia for doing so all the while basking in the fact they've just about finished off the United States of America turning it into a military dictatorship engaged in permawars till the end of time.

They've got something ugly planned for "We the People" as their bogus debt without end paradigm crumbles.

Fie on them, both cowards and traitors all...!

Carl Nemo **==

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#206485 - 01/01/12 03:45 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Carl Nemo]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Carl Nemo
...they've just about finished off the United States of America turning it into a military dictatorship engaged in permawars till the end of time.

They've got something ugly planned for "We the People" as their bogus debt without end paradigm crumbles.

Fie on them, both cowards and traitors all...!

That's the spirit !! · · ·

Good on ya !!
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#206491 - 01/01/12 05:35 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
You call it traitorous legislation because someone wants to put on the books stripping citizenship from traitors?

What the hell is wrong with that thinking? Everything.
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Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#206493 - 01/01/12 05:56 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Ozymanithrax Offline
member

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1343
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: churlpat lives
You call it traitorous legislation because someone wants to put on the books stripping citizenship from traitors?

What the hell is wrong with that thinking? Everything.

Send them to jail, but don't revoke their citizenship.

This seems to be a way to get around the difficulty of charging and convicting anyone for treason under the constitution.
_________________________
“If you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated." Saul Alinskey

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#206500 - 01/01/12 06:24 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Being deprived of citizenship is in my opinion far worse than going to jail. NO country will want you, unless it's a country that you don't want. Somalia comes to mind.

No passport? Try to get on a plane anywhere to fly to another country. And what happens when the country you are in expels you because they don't want you there? Where can you go?
_________________________
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#206506 - 01/01/12 06:33 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ozymanithrax]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: Ozymanithrax
Originally Posted By: churlpat lives
You call it traitorous legislation because someone wants to put on the books stripping citizenship from traitors?

What the hell is wrong with that thinking? Everything.

Send them to jail, but don't revoke their citizenship.

This seems to be a way to get around the difficulty of charging and convicting anyone for treason under the constitution.

When there was still the pretense that the nation was governed under a constitution it would probably have been unconstitutional to strip a person of his citizenship if he had been born in America. Even if he was a naturalized citizen, I suspect that the mere threat of being stripped of his citizenship would render him a lesser citizen in things not Constitutionally restricted, so it too would have been unconstitutional. Of course, we are not governed by a constitution so the matter is moot. They will do with us what the state and its minions want -- though perhaps some will "go not gentle into that good night " coffee
Yours,
Issodhos


Edited by issodhos (01/01/12 06:35 PM)
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#206507 - 01/01/12 06:45 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Greger Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 11848
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Being deprived of citizenship is in my opinion far worse than going to jail.

Lots of things are. Stoning and caning come to mind. Chopping off hands or other body parts. Draconian punishments which are "worse than going to jail" are a dime a dozen. Do you support them all? Flaying, is another good one, that makes waterboarding look like child's play. No punishment is to horrific for anyone who disagrees with the Holy American Government eh? Where does dissent end and treason begin?
Who gets to decide?
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#206550 - 01/01/12 11:12 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Carl Nemo Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 223
Loc: Ridgefield, Wa USA
I can tell "churlpat lives" from your reply that you are a 'good 21st century American' no different than a 'good 20th century German'...no? / : |

The question remains with their draconian roundup measures under these newly conceived unconstitutional mandates as to what a 'terrorist' might be...?

A terrorist can simply be an "enemy of the state" with contrary thoughts as to how they are being screwed over by their now out of control, rogue government 24/7/365.

You're scary guy. Are you a "Homeland Security" plant on this site? / : |

Carl Nemo **==



Edited by Carl Nemo (01/02/12 04:57 PM)

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#206565 - 01/02/12 12:45 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Carl Nemo]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
Carl, "churlpat lives" is still insisting that the NDAA doesn't apply to Americans.
Quote:
These law sections are not new. Look at the underlining near the top. They merely affirm the President's existing authority.

Now look at the underlining near the bottom.

The law DOES NOT APPLY to US citizens or to lawful resident aliens.

This is yet another case where the internet passes on crap time and time again and no one bothers to go back and read the f***ing manual for whatever reason. Most often, in my opinion, that reason is because what is being passed on is what the person wants to believe or because it fits in with his or her weltanschaung.

The expanded definition of "terrorist" concerns a lot of people. If the FBI wants to regard people exposing some practices within the food industry as "terrorists," then what group next? If there are serious economic problems in 2012, will the protesters be redefined as "terrorists" and dealt with according to these new un-constitutional laws?

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#206566 - 01/02/12 01:03 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: issodhos]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
issodhos, "They" have dispensed with any pretension of the constitution or rule of law quite some time ago. Now "they" are actively attempting to eliminate any remnants of due process, perhaps redefining it as yet another frivolous "entitlement."

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#206569 - 01/02/12 01:16 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 20552
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
You may be old enough to recall that the government has long ago gone after people who disagree with it -- the alien sedition act, the McCarthy purges, and even before.

By saying this I do not condone further suppression that the Republican congress is intent on imposing with only tepid objections from the White House.
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#206570 - 01/02/12 03:36 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Carl Nemo]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Originally Posted By: Carl Nemo
I can tell "churlpat lives" from your reply that you are 'good 21st century American' no different than a 'good 20th century German' of the Nazi era.

The question remains with their draconian roundup measures under these newly conceived unconstitutional mandates as to what a 'terrorist' might be...?

A terrorist can simply be an "enemy of the state" with contrary thoughts as to how they are being screwed over by their now out of control, rogue government 24/7/365.

You're scary guy. Are you a "Homeland Security" plant on this site? / : |

Carl Nemo **==



Excuse me, sir, may I point out that the discussion up to this point had not one goddamned thing to do with terrorists? It had to do with traitors. People who commit treasonous acts. It has absolutely nothing to do with your alleged "draconian roundup measures", which appear to be based upon a paranoid interpretation of some other law entirely.

I find your comparison of me to a Nazi to be extremely offensive. I request a retraction and an apology.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#206582 - 01/02/12 08:06 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
You may be old enough to recall that the government has long ago gone after people who disagree with it -- the alien sedition act, the McCarthy purges, and even before.

By saying this I do not condone further suppression that the Republican congress is intent on imposing with only tepid objections from the White House.
Phil, The government has only "legalized" during the course of the last few years what it's been doing for decades. The threat to our freedom is the trend towards integrating federal, state, and local law enforcement, and eventually combining any "national" police force with the military. Both parties have worked towards this end.

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#206583 - 01/02/12 08:16 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
churlpat lives, I started this thread and it has everything to do with "terrorists," or rather, redefining and expanding the scope of what is a terrorist. The FBI wants to redefined food activists (especially those with video cameras)as "terrorists." Could this draconian legislation be applied to them? Depends. Since the could be hurting corporate profits by exposing large food company practices and the economy in general since threatening the economy could be considered an act of war, could these activists then be considered "terrorists?"

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#206584 - 01/02/12 08:18 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
btw- are you still insisting that it's a "FACT" that the Federal Reserve is a government agency?

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#206590 - 01/02/12 09:18 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
How Congress is Signing its own Arrest Warrants in the NDAA Citizen Arrest bill
Quote:
I never thought I would have to write this: but—incredibly—Congress has now passed the National Defense Appropriations Act, with Amendment 1031, which allows for the military detention of American citizens. The amendment is so loosely worded that any American citizen could be held without due process. The language of this bill can be read to assure Americans that they can challenge their detention — but most people do not realize what this means: at Guantanamo and in other military prisons, one’s lawyer’s calls are monitored, witnesses for one’s defense are not allowed to testify, and one can be forced into nudity and isolation. Incredibly, ninety-three Senators voted to support this bill and now most of Congress: a roster of names that will live in infamy in the history of our nation, and never be expunged from the dark column of the history books.

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#206594 - 01/02/12 10:33 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan
btw- are you still insisting that it's a "FACT" that the Federal Reserve is a government agency?


You know, Joe, badgering like that is just so unnecessary. You are becoming as tedious as numan. Do not ask me that question again. It has absolutely nothing to do with the thread and is simply inserted whenever you feel the need to try to belittle me. It does not work. It only goes to show how small you can be.

Enough already.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#206596 - 01/02/12 10:55 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan
churlpat lives, I started this thread and it has everything to do with "terrorists," or rather, redefining and expanding the scope of what is a terrorist. The FBI wants to redefined food activists (especially those with video cameras)as "terrorists." Could this draconian legislation be applied to them? Depends. Since the could be hurting corporate profits by exposing large food company practices and the economy in general since threatening the economy could be considered an act of war, could these activists then be considered "terrorists?"


The blog you presented has absolutely nothing to do with the bill you put up for discussion.

Quote:
A recent Freedom of Information Act request has revealed that the FBI wants what it calls “food activists” prosecuted as terrorists


It says that. Yes it does. What it does not say is what the request got back. Nor does it say what the request was for. The request itself will not "reveal" anything. It's the documents that come back that may cause the revelation. But the article is strangely silent on anything other the apparent fact that a FOIA request was made. When you can come forth with the fruits of that request, try making it as a separate thread from the discussion of S. 1698.

The blog also refers to the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, AETA, and says:

Quote:
The AETA is a law designed to to suppress activism and speech regarding the industries which brutalize animals with horrific conditions and/or pump them full of chemicals and drugs.


NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. This is from the wiki article on AETA:

Quote:
The statute covers any act that either "damages or causes the loss of any real or personal property" or "places a person in reasonable fear" of injury. The law contains a savings clause that indicates it should not be construed to "prohibit any expressive conduct (including peaceful picketing or other peaceful demonstration) protected from legal prohibition by the First Amendment to the Constitution."
underscoring added

The law does not prohibit activism. The law does not prohibit free speech. It prohibits burning down laboratories (which is arson), releasing animals into the wild (which is theft), or any other damage to real or personal property. It prohibits activists from taking actions that would put a person in reasonable fear of injury; that is known as common law assault, but I am sure you knew that because I have mentioned it to you before.

The bill you cited would make acts of war against the United States cause for loss of US citizenship. THAT'S ALL!

To try to conflate this bill with the AETA is an example of paranoia in my personal opinion.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#206644 - 01/02/12 04:42 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Carl Nemo Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 223
Loc: Ridgefield, Wa USA
Yo churlpat lives...

I've removed the "Nazi era" reference from the original post.

Since you are seemingly obsessed with 'traitors' vs. terrorists then you have to look no further than our sitting 'politburo' once the Congress of the United States of America as a virtual nest of t-vipers.

No apology is forthcoming. You got the printed word deleted, but that's as far as I'll go good buddy.

I remember your uwarranted nasty tone about me "blowing smoke" when I posted some material concerning "Cold Fusion". Did I wet my skivvies and cry foul to you or a moderator...nope?!

Why so...because I'm not a candy butt.

Carl Nemo **==



Edited by Carl Nemo (01/02/12 11:58 PM)

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#206648 - 01/02/12 05:07 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
"I remember your uwarranted nasty tone about me "blowing smoke" when I posted some material concerning "Cold Fusion". "

I said you were blowing smoke. I referred to your posts, not to you as a person. The former is OK, but not the latter.

I didn't expect an apology, no more so than I expected you to provide backup for your statement to which I responded that you were blowing smoke. You have this habit of making statements and then refusing to provide any documentation for same when asked.

OK by me. The posts speak for themselves.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#206649 - 01/02/12 05:09 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Carl Nemo Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 223
Loc: Ridgefield, Wa USA
Yo churlpat lives...

Based on your post, I'd say you have a propensity for administering "cruel and unusual punishment"...no? The Eighth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution prohibits such, but then again the constitution is nothing but a g-damned piece of paper to most of our elitist, annointed one's now sitting in Congress and no doubt to a host our 'new age', ill-informed citizenry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruel_and_unusual_punishment

It can be interpreted as not simply referring to torture etc., but hey, we do that too in these seeming end times for the Republic...no? Anything seemingly goes in waging this faceless 'war on terror', simply a noun with no one to make parley or sign a peace accord.

Many of the contributions to this site and CHB could be considered seditionist in nature, but just the same the writers of such are not traitors. Seditionists get jailtime while traitors get gravetime.

Carl Nemo **==

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#206652 - 01/02/12 05:14 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Carl Nemo Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 223
Loc: Ridgefield, Wa USA
I did reply to your "blowing smoke" accusation. Evidently you didn't read the followup reply about the marketing and selling of the "Cold Fusion" device.

http://readerrant.capitolhillblue.com/ub...1816#Post201816

It's on page ten of the thread.

Carl Nemo **==

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#206656 - 01/02/12 05:53 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Ah, Carl, your views are always music to my ears -- even when I don't entirely agree with them -- which is seldom!
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#206731 - 01/03/12 08:47 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
Originally Posted By: churlpat lives
Originally Posted By: Joe Keegan
btw- are you still insisting that it's a "FACT" that the Federal Reserve is a government agency?


You know, Joe, badgering like that is just so unnecessary. You are becoming as tedious as numan. Do not ask me that question again. It has absolutely nothing to do with the thread and is simply inserted whenever you feel the need to try to belittle me. It does not work. It only goes to show how small you can be.

Enough already.


churlpat lives, There you go again. I'm not badgering you. You're badgering me, among other ranters. You belittle yourself. I've noticed that after someone starts a topic that you'll interject some meaningless posts, usually charge the topic originator or anyone you disagree with some outlandish charges that you yourself are guilty of. That's your modus operandi. You also have the pattern and practice of not answering questions. My question is very relevant to this topic, because it shows your willingness to misrepresent, insert lies, make charges, and then refuse to answer any questions, other than to state that your feelings are hurt. If my question bothers you so much, then why don't you answer it for once and all with either a simple direct YES or NO?For that matter, do you still insist that the NDAA doesn't apply to American citizens? Again, this question is very much related to this topic. I'm still bedazzled by your "legal interpretation" of this legislation. Try reading the whole bill for once.

Enough already, sheesh.



Edited by Joe Keegan (01/03/12 09:01 AM)

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#206733 - 01/03/12 08:51 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Whatever, Joe, whatever. I have answered your f***ing question about six times and I am not going to answer it again. Period. The end.

Get over it.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#206735 - 01/03/12 09:07 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
Wow, you didn't waste any time responding to my post. Which questions are you talking about, incidentally? Is this the one that you refuse to answer: Does the NDAA apply to American citizens? YES or NO? Or, are you referring to another?
_________________________

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#206736 - 01/03/12 09:13 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
churlpat lives, I won't waste any more bandwidth than necessary to reply to your 1/2/12 (#206596)post. If you can't or refuse to understand that the NDAA applies to Americans, then you won't be able to understand the significance of the Enemy Expatriation Act, either. I sincerely want to help you, but I can't make you understand, whether because you're either unwilling or unable. However, I suggest that you begin with a remedial English course.

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#206739 - 01/03/12 09:52 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Joe Keegan]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Quote:
However, I suggest that you begin with a remedial English course.


ROTFMOL
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#206758 - 01/03/12 11:59 AM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Ted Remington]
Carl Nemo Offline
stranger

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 223
Loc: Ridgefield, Wa USA
You know what churlpat, I've been sitting on the sidelines witnessing your exchange with Joe Keegan and agree with his assessment of you dodging questions etc., but seemingly like to do driveby 'thought bombings'.

My assessment of your thought processes over time are that of an immature, juvenile intellect or the writings of one suffering from MPD (multiple personality disorder).

I've replied to your "blowin' smoke" reference to my "Cold Fusion" contribution, you claiming that I didn't answer back in November, in addition to you not expecting an apology etc. along with more of your hissyfit, 'value-added' commentary. Again, as then and now, no reply is forthcoming, just dead silence until you rush in to pitch another 'molotov cocktail' through the RR window.

Your emoticon of an 'entity' rolling around the floor laughing is indicative of a troll's web persona, but still no direct answer to Joe's questions are supplied...why so? /:|

Carl Nemo **==

p.s. There's no need to drop f-bombs on the site either when you've run out of ideas as how to reply.



Edited by Carl Nemo (01/04/12 01:21 AM)

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#206759 - 01/03/12 12:16 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Carl Nemo]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 20552
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Gentlemen, this thread has devolved to personalities instead of substance. I will close the thread if it does not stop now and return to substantive discussions.

Please use the PM function if you wish to continue going after one another's style etc.

Phil Hoskins, Administrator
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#209431 - 01/18/12 09:52 PM Re: S. 1698: Enemy Expatriation Act [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8705
One goose step closer to an American version of the Nuremberg Laws.

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