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#213422 - 02/19/12 09:55 PM The new blacklist
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Quote:
In the 10 years I have been at MSNBC, the network has taken heat for what I have written, and faithfully honored our contract.

Yet my four-months' absence from MSNBC and now my departure represent an undeniable victory for the blacklisters.

The modus operandi of these thought police at Color of Change and ADL is to brand as racists and anti-Semites any writer who dares to venture outside the narrow corral in which they seek to confine debate.

All the while prattling about their love of dissent and devotion to the First Amendment, they seek systematically to silence and censor dissent.

Without a hearing, they smear and stigmatize as racist, homophobic or anti-Semitic any who contradict what George Orwell once called their "smelly little orthodoxies." They then demand that the heretic recant, grovel, apologize, and pledge to go forth and sin no more.

Defy them, and they will go after the network where you work, the newspapers that carry your column, the conventions that invite you to speak. If all else fails, they go after the advertisers.

Well, Buchanan certainly has these folks pegged. I think color of change is even run by president Obama's once in-house communist, van something. laugh
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#213424 - 02/19/12 10:55 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 36152
Loc: Bay Area, California
Van Jones. Smokin' hot brutha who sizzles like a block of dry ice.

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#213425 - 02/19/12 11:39 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
loganrbt Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 5846
Loc: Massaphuggintwoshirts
Poor, whiney, misunderstood Pat! Though I must admit when I first started reading it I thought it was written by Keith Olberman. You know, the unabashed liberal who was similarly run off MSNBC. For being to outspoken in his liberalism.

Guess they just get tired of old white guys who can't learn to moderate.
_________________________
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown

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#213429 - 02/20/12 12:58 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 20618
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Well, Buchanan is homophobic, don't know about the rest. But where is that good ole libertarian right to run a business as you want?
Guess it only works when you are against a liberal, huh?
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#213502 - 02/20/12 07:52 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: loganrbt]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802
Or "smart old white's" that won't abide the eternal Liberal tactic of "moving the 'standards' LEFT !", either !! >Mech

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#213503 - 02/20/12 07:54 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802
Phil, your homophilic bias sticks out like cockleburr's hooks ! >Mech

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#213504 - 02/20/12 07:59 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Mechanic]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10508
Loc: Downey, California
Originally Posted By: Mechanic
Or "smart old white's" that won't abide the eternal Liberal tactic of "moving the 'standards' LEFT !", either !! >Mech


Hello pot, meet kettle.
The Republican Party has moved the standards so far to the right that even Reagan himself is liberal by today's standards.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#213506 - 02/20/12 08:22 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Phil Hoskins]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
Well, Buchanan is homophobic, don't know about the rest. But where is that good ole libertarian right to run a business as you want?
Guess it only works when you are against a liberal, huh?

Where did you come up with this string of crap, Hoskins? Who said anything about MSNBC not having the right to remove Buchanan from their programming? Are you under the impression that that is the point of the article or are you just trying to run interference for groups that seek to silence the voice of anyone with which they do not agree?
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#213507 - 02/20/12 08:31 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: loganrbt]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: loganrbt
Poor, whiney, misunderstood Pat! Though I must admit when I first started reading it I thought it was written by Keith Olberman. You know, the unabashed liberal who was similarly run off MSNBC. For being to outspoken in his liberalism.

I thought Olberman's boo boo (he got suspended for a couple of days, wasn't it) was violating MSNBC's policy of not making campaign contributions -- especially not to pols he had on his show? Not that I see a problem with it, but then, I ain't MSNBC.
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#213509 - 02/20/12 09:17 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6289
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Perty short blacklist, but it's obliviously a trend. My god, who will be next?
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
Unknown

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#213512 - 02/20/12 09:59 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
loganrbt Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 5846
Loc: Massaphuggintwoshirts
Originally Posted By: issodhos

I thought Olberman's boo boo (he got suspended for a couple of days, wasn't it) was violating MSNBC's policy of not making campaign contributions -- especially not to pols he had on his show? Not that I see a problem with it, but then, I ain't MSNBC.


You are, of course, allowed to keep having those erroneous thoughts.
_________________________
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown

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#213517 - 02/21/12 01:57 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11656
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
1. Black listing implies a concerted and successful effort to silence an individual and keep him from all employment. I see no evidence that this single incident rises to the level of black listing

2. There is the broader question with regard to whether or not a media corporation might have the right to terminate a media personality for expressing views that offend some large segment of the customers of that media corporation. It seems to me that MSNBC has that right (quite apart from what ever you or I may feel about the expressed views)

3. People who are offended by the expressed views of Mr. Buchanan do have thee right to communicate their views on this matter.

4. Mr. Buchanan has no "right" to continued employment with any particular media company when his public personna does not correspond with the image this company wishes to project.

5. I was unaware that Mr. Buchanan had been fired by MSNBC. TO the extent that allegations of racism are being spread about Mr. Buchanan... Mr Buchanan himself is facilitating the spread of those stories.. even if attempting to defend himself

6. IMO. the views that Mr Buchanan has repeatedly expressed are explicitly racist, inflammatory and offensive. Mr Buchnon certainly has a free speech right to hold these views, and to express them as he chooses. He has no right to be guaranteed a paid media platform to express these views.

Quote:
What struck me most about Buchanan’s appearance on Maddow this evening is his continued insistance on the idea that white men, and only white men, built this country and are responsible for all historic constributions–effectively erasing the contributions of white women and non-white men and women who for the better part of American history couldn’t even vote, let alone have access to the kind of education and professional advantages that white men enjoyed in this country for so long.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/pat-buchanan.html#ixzz1mzqeCLWn
link

It is certainly true that white males held most if not all significant positions of power for the last 200 and more years. The extended implications of Mr. Buchanan's comments are that

A. these power position were held and excersized exclusively because of merit

B. That this country would not be so successful if this group of people had not been running the place.

C. That because this group of people co-opted all political and economic power... that their ancestors are somehow entitled to special future deference from this country
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

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#213521 - 02/21/12 09:07 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
2wins Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 7614
Loc: Barely above Sea Level
pat is welcome to his views, of course. and i will defend his right to express them. it is of course the right of msnbc or any other privately held institution to end a relationship with a person whom they deem out of step with society at large. and pat is out of step with society at large. his first amendment rights have not been trampled upon. his book is out there for all to read. his buddies at fox have jumped at the chance to let him air his views. his views are widely known. the problem would seem that a large chunk of well reasoned individuals don't agree with this notion that "white america" is under the gun etc., and so forth. the white america argument is tired and frankly suggests that the person arguing it is at his wits ends, possessing little in the way of creative and proactive solutions for an increasingly changing world. the cat's out of the bag, mr. buchanan and you're time is up. the world has changed before your eyes and you don't like it. well too bad.
_________________________
sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!

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#213528 - 02/21/12 10:53 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
Sandune Offline
member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1967
We often forget that Pat Buchanan is a Roman Catholic. He has written some wonderful books but silently the reader must know the true nature of the author. Pat was a supporter of the Birch Society and that is when and where I met him. Anyone with a memory understands that many great writers and Americans must never be elected to any political position.

I've met Pat and his wife Shelly on many occasions and was saddened to learn how much a Catholic he was and even I warned him not to run for office. It is impossible for any Catholic to completely step out of the religion when it comes to representing American values. Kennedy did it but then his religion was inflicted on him and he did not allow it to be his inner values.

I believe America is heading back to representing the Evangelical movement and Pat will return and watch MSNBC dissolve in front of his eyes. Olberman is now doing his thing at Current TV and apparently doing pretty well. Another MSNBC has been is on the Fox Business Channel and many of us Imus people can locate him too.

Our campaigns are as ugly as the voters. Reader Rant is certainly getting uglier every day but then it is to be expected.

I had an awakening this morning and the opinions of others during the campaign or even here means nothing. I know right from wrong and have no need for the dissention here or anywhere else.

Pat Buchanan is a homophobe with little respect for Women. It took me a while to see through his writings but now I understand who and what he is. I would welcome him back to MSNBC but then he is not a threat to me.

Pat is not out of step and represents the new GOP that is based on the religious right. For God's sake do some reading instead of watching television 2wins. I continue to read Pat's writings as it helps me understand the Catholic brain. The difference with Pat is that he lives according to his religion and in all the years I have known him, not a single step out of line. He is a rarity among men.
_________________________
AKA Sandy Price

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#213529 - 02/21/12 10:55 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
Sandune Offline
member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1967
I've gotten the last of my gripes here at R.R. and it is time to say goodbye. I'm having my second mug of coffee and will inhale with my new "don't give a damn" attitude.
_________________________
AKA Sandy Price

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#213583 - 02/21/12 08:51 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802
One questions a "realtive evaluation" such as yours, Iss ! In the current scheme of political one-upmanship, simply standing in place soon puts one on the "far/radical right" !

IMNSHO, our nation has been driven Left/Socialist at an increasing rate for decades ! I never thought Kruschev's "We will bury you" an empty threat.

I would choose the mid-Sixties LBJ Adm. "Great Society" pogroms as being the watershed, but there are others preceeding of equal import ! Hence, summarily a "true conservative" soon finds himself branded as a "radical" by both opposition and "moderates" in his own political base. I've spent countless hours debating the fallacy of supporting an "electable conservative candidate" is, defacto, agreeing to shift the locus left ! >Mech

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#213587 - 02/21/12 09:02 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Sandune]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802
Sandy,

I'd agree R.R./CHB has become a microcosm of my liberal/conservative "encroachment" contention over the past few yeazs. One reason I originally left it a while back ! NO way does this forum even approach "conservative" - per its banner - any more ! >Mech

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#213596 - 02/22/12 12:18 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 4832
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
in-house communist

interesting you can' discern the facts

he was indeed flirted with far left leaning thinking but ended up a capitalist

so you reckon he is one of those capi-commies?

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#213597 - 02/22/12 12:23 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Mechanic]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
veteran

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11849
With apologies to Santayana, those completely free from the bounds of history, are doomed to make it up!
Originally Posted By: Mechanic
IMNSHO, our nation has been driven Left/Socialist at an increasing rate for decades ! ... Hence, summarily a "true conservative" soon finds himself branded as a "radical" by both opposition and "moderates" in his own political base. I've spent countless hours debating the fallacy of supporting an "electable conservative candidate" is, defacto, agreeing to shift the locus left ! >Mech
Mech, that assertion is so absurd it is hard to formulate a response that doesn't give credence to its utter vacuity. In order for it to even be consistent with any semblance of reality is to assume that a) there is some historical basis for the underlying claim, and b) ignore any actual facts that contradict the original assertion. The country has, for the last 40 years, been moving steadily rightward such that when Sandra Day O'Connor was appointed, she was viewed as a right-wing ideologue, and when she retired, she was considered a centrist; Ronald Reagan was considered a conservative, but would now be a "Massachusetts Moderate"; and Rick Santorum would once have been considered a radical, right wing, nutjob, and .... well, he is still a radical, right wing, nutjob, but is leading in Republican polls. To assert that the United States is more liberal now requires a complete divorce from history and reality.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#213604 - 02/22/12 08:20 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: NW Ponderer]
2wins Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 7614
Loc: Barely above Sea Level
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
With apologies to Santayana, those completely free from the bounds of history, are doomed to make it up!
Originally Posted By: Mechanic
IMNSHO, our nation has been driven Left/Socialist at an increasing rate for decades ! ... Hence, summarily a "true conservative" soon finds himself branded as a "radical" by both opposition and "moderates" in his own political base. I've spent countless hours debating the fallacy of supporting an "electable conservative candidate" is, defacto, agreeing to shift the locus left ! >Mech
Mech, that assertion is so absurd it is hard to formulate a response that doesn't give credence to its utter vacuity. In order for it to even be consistent with any semblance of reality is to assume that a) there is some historical basis for the underlying claim, and b) ignore any actual facts that contradict the original assertion. The country has, for the last 40 years, been moving steadily rightward such that when Sandra Day O'Connor was appointed, she was viewed as a right-wing ideologue, and when she retired, she was considered a centrist; Ronald Reagan was considered a conservative, but would now be a "Massachusetts Moderate"; and Rick Santorum would once have been considered a radical, right wing, nutjob, and .... well, he is still a radical, right wing, nutjob, but is leading in Republican polls. To assert that the United States is more liberal now requires a complete divorce from history and reality.
i was going to respond to his post but you did it so well i would be wasting time. ThumbsUp
_________________________
sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!

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#213691 - 02/22/12 08:33 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: 2wins]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: 2wins
pat is welcome to his views, of course. and i will defend his right to express them. it is of course the right of msnbc or any other privately held institution to end a relationship with a person whom they deem out of step with society at large. and pat is out of step with society at large.

You, Hoskins, and Ardy seem bent on arguing a point never made, 2wins. I am sure neither you nor the others are gullible enough to think that the groups who target him do not have as their goal removing him from any public access. It is one of the things that makes the whine about "having a national conversation" such a load of crap regardless of the political orientation of those doing the whining. Funny stuff. coffee
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#213693 - 02/22/12 08:38 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6289
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: issodhos

You, Hoskins, and Ardy seem bent on arguing a point never made... Funny stuff. coffee

That's what I've been trying to tell ya, Isso! Nobody ever knows what yer point is!
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
Unknown

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#213699 - 02/22/12 09:00 PM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 20618
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
issodhos that is bullcrap and you know it. You make oblique semi-points and when anyone responds you move the target to say it isn't what you meant.

Listen, I acknowledge you are a brilliant man, but I am sure glad I never would have to count on you for anything. You would say "I got your back" while drawing a bulls-eye on it.

Did you ever consider it isn't all of us, but you?
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#213749 - 02/23/12 02:49 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10508
Loc: Downey, California
Buchanan's ouster is all about ratings and nothing more.
Please don't make the mistake of attaching anything else to it because
now that "news" (if you can call it that) is a profit center that is the
ONLY thing that determines whether or not a personality remains
on any broadcast outlet.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#213759 - 02/23/12 07:53 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6289
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Who is this Buchanan guy, anyway. Is he somebody I should be listening to? What list was he on before they put him on the black one?
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
Unknown

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#213763 - 02/23/12 08:38 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: Phil Hoskins]
2wins Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 7614
Loc: Barely above Sea Level
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
issodhos that is bullcrap and you know it. You make oblique semi-points and when anyone responds you move the target to say it isn't what you meant.

Listen, I acknowledge you are a brilliant man, but I am sure glad I never would have to count on you for anything. You would say "I got your back" while drawing a bulls-eye on it.

Did you ever consider it isn't all of us, but you?
and again i make the point, it is a rhetorical game, and rhetorical games the only one-up-man-ship is the one that moves the target slightly left, then slightly right in an effort to stay in the game. there are no real points, nor is there any real idealism attached to it. it's simply the game.
_________________________
sure, you can talk to god, but if you don't listen then what's the use? so, onward through the fog!

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#213766 - 02/23/12 09:01 AM Re: The new blacklist [Re: issodhos]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Sort of like this at the 2:20 mark?

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Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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