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#213961 - 02/25/12 02:05 AM A simple proposition
Phil Hoskins Offline
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In a reflective mood I had one of those moments when a single thought made sense of so much. I offer it for whatever value it may have for you:

Within the world dominated by the Abrahmic religions which at this point is most of the world, even where those religions are not dominant themselves, the essential struggle by males to dominate every aspect of life.

That struggle populates political, religious and all other aspects of life and shapes every issue and resolution. It is almost never openly discussed, and most never think about it as such. But all thinking is deeply impacted by this single fact.

There are many who are not dominated by this imperative, but it usually has taken thoughtful effort to become free of it. It is, it seems to me, to be pervasive.

I wonder what would happen if we woke to this dominating struggle, resolved and retired from the struggle and took every issue at all related to this struggle from politics, economics and culture?
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#213963 - 02/25/12 02:14 AM Re: A simple proposition [Re: Phil Hoskins]
loganrbt Offline
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Extend the logic just a bit and you have a convert. The Abrahmic religions also tend to be heavily mysoginistic and in Europe and the United States heavily skewed toward the pale end of the human race. Certain segments of the world and its collective and individual societies are showing marked tendencies toward becoming pluralsitic; spiritually, theologically, ethnically, and sexually (gender and preference). These leaves the "devout" guardians of the pale male (not to be confused with pell mell) religious orthodoxy forced to fall back on their "imperative" in order to protect their dominion.
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#213990 - 02/25/12 04:27 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: loganrbt]
Phil Hoskins Offline
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loganrbt, not sure I understand how that is an extension.
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Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#213992 - 02/25/12 05:13 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: Phil Hoskins]
chunkstyle Offline
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Registered: 10/02/07
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Do we consider the nature of mean to be shaped by the Abrahamic religions or has man shaped religion from his nature?
Since mankind seems to always create a narrative for the creation of our world maybe a good follow up to your question, Phil, is why does modern mankind rely so heavily on creation narratives and codes of conduct derived from them in the face of science, archeology, and studies human behavior, etc?
How do we contemplate a world free of Abrahamic religions unless we understand why mankind is compelled to their narratives in the first place? Why doe we need our myth narratives as an intelligent being? What is it serving for societies in light of evidence of it's disservice?
Hope I haven't veered from your initial question. It does get the mind to thinking.

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#213994 - 02/25/12 05:24 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
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There are a lot of people who need to be told what to do, how to think, how to act. This is why the Abrahamic religions are sought after and so defended. Many women buy in the misogyny of the rhetoric as well - not so much is the case for women who have eduction beyond high school.
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#213995 - 02/25/12 05:28 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: chunkstyle]
Phil Hoskins Offline
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Chunkstyle I think your questions are right on topic.

I can only speculate that in some manner the survival instinct has coalesced as the male imperative in the Abrahmic tribes.

Those human groups who did not follow this trail have either been eliminated or are so marginalized that they are barely noticeable. I simply do not have sufficient background or information to answer the questions of why.
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#213996 - 02/25/12 05:39 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
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The Abrahamic religions taught the populous that if one followed their moral codes they would be special and they would prosper. Those who did not follow would not. According to this line of thought, the goods of the world are scarce, and not everyone can win. From the Abrahamic religions point of view they have been cheated when the so-called immoral prosper: all of their sacrifices, remaining loyal to insane familial relationships, have been for naught; they are not special and the 'immoral' have have the goods of life.

This is driven by a more fundamental insane mindset. These beliefs could only take root in a mind that is blank and devoid of any content but shame. This is painful and must be denied, disassociated, repressed, and projected out of the mind, and onto whoever happens to be handy and can be made to be responsible for the scarcity they believe to be so real.
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#214001 - 02/25/12 06:28 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: Phil Hoskins]
NW Ponderer Offline
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I think, and I'm thinking out loud here, so forgive if the thought is nascent, that there is a direct correlation between when theses religions came into being, and the history then in operation. In each case there is a martial component to the religious fervor (I except Christianity, except as it was perverted by its adherents in its adolescence, when crusades, inquisitions, witch burnings and heresies were all in vogue - some remain in perpetual adolescence). In most martial societies, men dominate because of their physical attributes, and organize society with that in mind.

There is a book, and some significant discussion, that we live in the most peaceful time in our collective history. Again, I think there is a direct correlation between our current historical context, and the ascendency of the idea of equality - sexual, racial, ethnic, social. Without the urgent need for military prowess in our everyday lives, we, collectively, can be less aggressive, and more inclusive. Religions, and other social establishments, tend to be more conservative, and socially backward, than the societies in which they operate.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#214006 - 02/25/12 06:37 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: NW Ponderer]
Schlack Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9718
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
In each case there is a martial component to the religious fervor (I except Christianity,


Constantine the Great

the marital compoent was quite imporant in the establishment of christianity as the roman religion.
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"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#214007 - 02/25/12 06:37 PM Re: A simple proposition [Re: Phil Hoskins]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16363
By the way, Rick, I disagree with almost every word of your last post.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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