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#217018 - 03/19/12 08:21 PM The Military Mentality
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
I have come upon some information that re-confirms my disgust at the human race, particularly the European and Western branches of it -- and very particularly the American variety.
Last Day of World War One
Quote:
One historian estimates that over 11,000 soldiers on all sides were killed, wounded or were missing on the final day of the war.
This is a higher figure than D-Day when the allies were fighting a just cause, to liberate Europe from the Nazis, as opposed to the final day of World War One, when the war was over. How could killing on this scale ever be justified?
Yes, that's right!! On the morning when World War One ended, Nov. 11, 1918 --just before 11AM, the Armistice having been signed at 5AM-- thousands of soldiers were needlessly slaughtered! That is what military leaders are like! If anyone deserved to be roasted in the Fires of Hell, those "decorated officers and commanders" deserve to be! Many wanted one more decoration for their record. One general sacrificed hundreds of his soldiers because the town he captured that morning had bathing facilities! Another was the murderer of his men because he wanted a photo opportunity pretending to cross a river! Hundreds of American negro soldiers, hitherto never used at the front, were driven into machine gun fire that morning -- one way to get rid of them, I suppose.

And then there is this, on Wikipedia, about a future US President, Harry Truman. He wrote a letter to his future wife that morning.
Quote:
On November 11, 1918 his artillery unit fired some of the last shots of World War I into German positions after the armistice was signed at 5 am, but before the ceasefire took effect at 11 am. In a letter he wrote, "It is a shame we can't go in and devastate Germany and cut off a few of the German kids' hands and feet and scalp a few of their old men."
Emphasis added.
Young Harry just couldn't get enough of killing people when it was no longer necessary!!
Perhaps I understand better his monstrous decision to atom bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


Edited by numan (03/19/12 08:59 PM)
Edit Reason: neutrality
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#217099 - 03/20/12 08:18 AM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: numan]
keysersoze Offline
journeyman

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 881
HST also liberally sprinkled his exchanges with his future wife with racist comments. Letters reveal this and can be found in reading "Truman" by David McCullough. Where Truman grew up was Southern in sentiment. He was exposed to that racial attitude at an early age.

I do not subscribe to the revisionist view of the use of the A bomb. Maybe Dresden would be a better example?
_________________________
Only racists oppose my dictatorship.

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#217201 - 03/20/12 09:02 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: keysersoze]
Greger Offline
veteran

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 11848
Loc: Florida
There are cases almost beyond number of brutality and needless killing by almost every nation that has ever existed. Before nations there were atrocities by the city states, villages, tribes, and wandering bands. There is little point in picking any single day out or any nation out as the worst. Unless you are fanatically anti American.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#217206 - 03/20/12 09:16 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: Greger]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6407
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Greger
There are cases almost beyond number of brutality and needless killing by almost every nation that has ever existed. Before nations there were atrocities by the city states, villages, tribes, and wandering bands. There is little point in picking any single day out or any nation out as the worst. Unless you are fanatically anti American.

Say, I just came over from the If you're homophobic, you're probably gay thread and I'm thinking that there is a corollary for If you are fanatically anti-American, you're probably ... gee, what would the just right word be?
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
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#217284 - 03/21/12 01:23 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: Greger]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Greger
There are cases almost beyond number of brutality and needless killing by almost every nation that has ever existed....There is little point in picking any single day out or any nation out as the worst.

Sez you.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#217285 - 03/21/12 01:27 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: numan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
World War I: Wasted Lives on Armistice Day

Quote:
The enclosed letter had been written to Fuller by George K. Livermore, former operations officer of the 167th Field Artillery Brigade of the black 92nd Division, stating that that force had been engaged since 5 a.m. on November 11 and had been ordered to launch its final charge at 10:30 a.m. Livermore lamented 'the little crosses over the graves of the colored lads who died a useless death on that November morning.' He further described the loss of U.S. Marines killed crossing the Meuse River in the final hours as 'frightful.'....
The generals left in that limbo fell roughly into two categories: ambitious careerists who saw a fast-fading opportunity for glory, victories, even promotions; and those who believed it mad to send men to their deaths to take ground that they could safely walk into within days.



General Summerall gets his photo-op.
He should be standing on the bodies of the soldiers he murdered.

Quote:
American forces weren't alone in launching assaults on the last day. The British high command, still stinging from its retreat at Mons during the first days of the war in August 1914, judged that nothing could be more appropriate than to retake the city on the war's final day. British Empire losses on November 11 totaled some twenty-four hundred. The French commander of the 80th Régiment d'Infanterie received two simultaneous orders that morning: one to launch an attack at 9 a.m., the other to cease fire at 11. Total French losses on the final day amounted to an estimated 1,170.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#217374 - 03/21/12 11:16 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: numan]
Mechanic Offline
journeyman

Registered: 04/19/11
Posts: 802
Neuman,

That "we fight the next war with the tactics of previous ones", is an aphorism known to even casual students of military history like me ! There are countless examples in every action/wars ! The "Great War" you cite is an exemplary example of this sort of thinking. The flower of Britian's youth was ordered to slaughter attacking emplaced machine guns across open ground. Later the German's complained the USMC wasn't "playing fair" as it slaughtered German troops from a thousand yards in Belleau Woods. (The USMC introduced a new tactic not appreciated by the rear echelon, I suppose. )

Closer in time and distance, our East Coast remained lighted in WW2 even as U-Boats were sinking tankers within sight of the shore ! I recall a personal account from a veteran that saw a UBoat while "patrolling" his assigned escort of the NJ coast with a (his) Piper Cub that didn't even have a radio ! His report had to wait until he returned to his base !

War is an endeavor conducted by the ignorant/old/arrogant but foisted upon the youth to perform ! Mech

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#217420 - 03/22/12 11:12 AM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: numan]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10537
Loc: Downey, California
Quote:
"Comrades, our own fleet doesn't know our full potential. They will do everything possible to test us; but they will only test their own embarassment. We will leave our fleet behind, we will pass through the American patrols, past their sonar nets, and lay off their largest city, and listen to their rock and roll... while we conduct missile drills."


_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#217423 - 03/22/12 11:52 AM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: numan]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10537
Loc: Downey, California
Can anyone tell me how it is possible to lead a life on this planet, with the human race being what it is, WITHOUT a military mentality?

Remember, I said "with the human race being what it is", not your idealized version of "what the human race should be".

We all want that, any reasonable person does, but it's not the reality.

Reality being what it is, the human race being what it is, there is need for a military mentality.
And those of us who cannot comprehend that still owe a great debt to rough men who stand strong, ready to do the unspeakable while we sleep peacefully.

If any of you cannot deal with it, then do what you can to change the human race for the better so that there is no need for a military mentality.

There's your assignment, there's your cause.

I see no honor and no constructiveness in singling out one modern nation for sins which have been committed by all since man crawled out of the slime.
If anything, those who do such further the hatred and strengthen the rationale for even more violence, more killing, more death and more destruction.

You have no fruitful lesson to share, your seeds are the seeds of discontent and they shall bear the fruit of more wars to come.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#217445 - 03/22/12 02:24 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas

...owe a great debt to rough men who stand strong, ready to do the unspeakable while we sleep peacefully.
I am afraid that generally translates to "brainless, heartless brutes who have life and humanity beaten out of them." I will grant you that what they do is unspeakably vile.

Quote:
I see no honor and no constructiveness in singling out one modern nation for sins which have been committed by all since man crawled out of the slime.

So you think Poland was as equally culpable as Hitler's Germany, and the Philippines and Cambodia (or Iraq and Afghanistan, for that matter) as equally murderous as the United States?
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#217446 - 03/22/12 02:40 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: numan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Charles Pelot Summerall

Quote:
In the last hours of the war, Summerall ordered a crossing of the Meuse River near Sedan. Although the armistice was planned for days, signed at 5am, and taking effect with the war ending at 11am, Summerall's actions on November 10-11 resulted in over eleven hundred American casualties.
His excuse was that his action was part of plan to support an action that was to have taken place on November 14!!
Quote:
A few hours later, Summerall arrived to have his photograph taken crossing the wooden planks of the river, risking only his shoes to the water. His command that day was considered one of the great embarrassments of the American effort....Summerall commanded the 1st Division in 1919-1921, receiving promotion to brigadier general in February 1919 and to major general in April 1920.
No doubt as a reward for his sterling performance during WW I !!
Quote:
He commanded the Hawaiian Department in 1921-1924. Colonel William "Billy" Mitchell visited Summerall during his command in Hawaii, and criticized the lack of air defenses for the islands. This angered the general, who later attempted to preside over Mitchell's court-martial in 1925, until the defense won his dismissal by showing his bias. However, he still testified as a witness against Mitchell.

Although General Summerall retired from active service in March, 1931, never fear! -- his service to his country was not finished!! He was immediately appointed to be President of The Citadel, The Military College of South Carolina from 1931 until 1953. He died in Washington, D.C., on 14 May 1955, crowned with honors and awards.
The elite drill team at The Citadel was named for Summerall, being called The Summerall Guards.
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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#217716 - 03/24/12 03:00 PM Re: The Military Mentality [Re: numan]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?


Citadel President: 'We Didn’t Do What We Should Have Done'

Quote:
Citadel officials now admit they did not do enough in 2007 to stop Louis “Skip” ReVille from abusing more children, and now the school has turned over to Charleston police all documents relating to the now four-year-old sex-abuse accusation against ReVille....
“Had the Citadel in 2007 come forward and reported the facts … what we are seeing now as a community may never have happened,” McLeod said. “The family I represent is distraught beyond description, because they left that meeting with the Citadel and they had every reason to believe the Citadel would report (ReVille) to law enforcement.”

The Citadel Military Academy continues to uphold the standards of General Summerall.


Edited by numan (03/24/12 03:17 PM)
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

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