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#217797 - 03/25/12 02:21 AM The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case
Golem Offline
member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 1863
Loc: Orange County, California, USA
I've read some interesting material regarding the Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case.

I'll lead of with a post from Free Republic that I agree with. This guy is a former LEO:

Quote:
My opinion (and it is just that)...based on nothing but the released tapes and statements is this...

Zimmerman was the clear aggressor up to the point of the end of the tape.

Martin ran (according to zimmerman on the tape). This is action that avoids confrontation and is exactly what I have taught my kids to do should they ever be followed by a strange adult.

Zimmerman has a documented history of violence - once assaulting a LEO, once smacking his GF around.

Martin has no record (except suspension for habitual tardiness).

Zimmerman viewed Martin, in his own words, as a "effin punk", "on drugs", and up to something. Zimmerman said, "these assholes always get away".

These statements indicate a mindset wherein Zimmerman had decided that Martin was on drugs, a punk and about to escape. Except for the escape part none of this was true.

Here comes my opinion...

Based on their actions of pursuit and avoidance and on Zimmerman's attitude about Martin I believe that Zimmerman continued his course and either caught up with or bumped into Martin.

I think that, given the actions that we know of up to this point, Zimmerman was the aggressor and bit off more than he could chew.

This is, to me, a much more likely scenario than a sudden reversal in behavior by both Zimmerman and Martin.

I also believe that Zimmerman will not face charges...not because he is not culpable...but because there are no witnesses to the beginning of the fight.

Also, absent any racial comments by Zimmerman on the tape (he said punk, not coon) there is no "hate" crime. The Feds have no standing...


Next, please look at this:

Neighbor comes to defense of Trayvon Martin's shooter (with video clips) I would recommend watching at least the first clip.

And here is a document (PDF) from the city of Sanford, Florida that contains several informative links.

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#217798 - 03/25/12 02:51 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
Scoutgal Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 25417
Loc: CA USA
The neighbor is not credible, IMHO, because the neighbor was not there. There are rumors that the police claim that an eye witness has come forward and stated that Martin was the agressor, but the statement by said witness has not been released. I have to agree with that LEO from FR. Did I really just say that??? shocked crazy
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#217800 - 03/25/12 03:03 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
Golem Offline
member

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 1863
Loc: Orange County, California, USA
Remember, just because Martin was on top of Zimmerman pounding the s*** out of him doesn't mean the Martin was the instigator. It's possible that Zimmerman was the instigator and Martin just turned the tables on him (a point my FReeper pal has made several times).

And it's OK to agree with wtc911. He's reasonable. smile

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#217801 - 03/25/12 03:05 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11337
I had read that one of the callers described Zimmerman being on top of Martin right before the shot was fired. There is no credible scenario that makes Martin the aggressor, or even a credible threat to Zimmerman. Zimmerman went looking for trouble and found it. If this is self defense, there is no reasonable limitation on restraint. Moreover, it appears he deliberately lied to the police when he claimed he was the one screaming for help.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#217804 - 03/25/12 03:39 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
Ardy Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11119
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: Golem

Also, absent any racial comments by Zimmerman on the tape (he said punk, not coon) there is no "hate" crime. The Feds have no standing...

Next, please look at this:

Neighbor comes to defense of Trayvon Martin's shooter (with video clips) I would recommend watching at least the first clip.



In reviewing the video...Zimmerman's "defending " neighbor stated that the neighborhood had suffered multiple burglaries... that Zimmerman was mad as hell, and wasn't going to take it....

If we re-state the defense of Zimmerman, he was angry, he was predisposed to be suspicious of african americans.... that he had a gun, and he killed a kid for no apparent reason except the forgoing facts.

It seems to me that Mr. Zimmerman did in fact have free floating anger against "suspicious" African american kids... and that racially associated anger resulted in a totally unjustified killing


It seems to me that Mr. Zimmerman must be held responsible for allowing his anger to influence him to pursue the victim without provocation and kill the victim with the gun that he chose to carry...

What is the cliche? Guns do not kill people, people kill people. If you choose to carry a gun, then it seems to me that you hav to be held responsible for how you use that gun.





Edited by Ardy (03/25/12 03:40 AM)
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#217805 - 03/25/12 03:42 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11337
Thanks for providing the links, Golem. The most direct information i have had since this started.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#217806 - 03/25/12 05:31 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: NW Ponderer]
Schlack Offline
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Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9541
Loc: Ireland
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#217808 - 03/25/12 10:05 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35477
Loc: Bay Area, California
Neighborhood Watch is an extension of local police departments. The NW Captain or point person, is a liaison between the neighborhood and the local police department.

It is standard practice that the police department tell you not to engage the perps, call police dispatch immediately, and if possible, have your neighbors visually follow the perp by looking out their windows and reporting back to the NW captain.

In our city, we don't call "911" we call police dispatch directly on their direct line. The police dispatcher facilitates getting the patrol car to the location and meeting the NW captain immediately. Doing so is actually faster than calling 911.

Neighborhood Watch isn't about one person keeping a vigil eye. It's about everyone participating in keeping the neighborhood safe from harm. Everything that Zimmerman did was against Neighborhood Watch protocol.

More information on the Neighborhood Watch program.
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#217810 - 03/25/12 10:37 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35477
Loc: Bay Area, California
I'm also willing to bet the Zimmerman is out-of-work with too much time on his hands.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#217812 - 03/25/12 10:55 AM Re: The Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman case [Re: Golem]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
veteran

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11337
He was not out of work before the shooting, but hasn't been to work since. Don't have the link right now. His school also expelled him for safety reasons (death threats, and notoriety).
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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