Current Topics
Help me understand
by NW Ponderer
25 minutes 40 seconds ago
Libya a failure of foreign policy
by NW Ponderer
38 minutes 10 seconds ago
Round Table for July 27-August 2, 2014
by logtroll
Today at 09:06 PM
Spiritual But Not Religious
by Spag-hetti
Today at 06:08 PM
State sees surge in high-paying white-collar jobs
by NW Ponderer
Today at 08:39 AM
palestinian responsibility for the Jewish Diaspora?
by NW Ponderer
Today at 08:25 AM
Time Travel Question: Kill Hitler or educate voters on the 2000 FL ballot
by california rick
Yesterday at 12:39 PM
Round Table Foe Week Of July 20th-July 26th, 2014
by Scoutgal
Yesterday at 10:08 AM
Passing out weapons as a foreign policy
by california rick
07/26/14 12:14 PM
Impeachment Circus Rides Again
by california rick
07/26/14 12:12 PM
Big brother is watching
by Joe Keegan
07/26/14 12:16 AM
Illegal immigration rates
by NW Ponderer
07/24/14 07:56 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by logtroll
07/24/14 01:28 PM
Loss of Faith in Government
by Scoutgal
07/23/14 07:14 PM
IRS Surrenders, Won't Check Whether Political Nonprofits Are Breaking The Law
by Jeffery J. Haas
07/23/14 01:45 PM
Forum Stats
6003 Members
55 Forums
14218 Topics
246493 Posts

Max Online: 282 @ 05/29/08 01:08 AM
Google Adsense
Page 14 of 16 < 1 2 ... 12 13 14 15 16 >
Topic Options
#218219 - 03/28/12 09:35 PM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: california rick]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: california rick
After watching a Frontline article stating that Alan Greenspan was a "disciple" of Ayn Rand and how his "free market economist" program helped bring America to its knees, I'm not so keen on Ayn Rand and her free market principles.

One of the lies being propagated is that Greenspan was somehow the archetect of a free market economy and it was a "free market" economy that was the source of the latest clusterf..k. To recognize how utterly rediculous and disengenuous this is one need only realize that an institution such as the federal reserve is the absolute antithesis of a free market.
Issodhos
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

Top
#218226 - 03/28/12 11:06 PM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: issodhos]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11515
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: issodhos
To recognize how utterly rediculous and disengenuous this is one need only realize that an institution such as the federal reserve is the absolute antithesis of a free market.
Issodhos


If the mafia is the antithesis of the FBI, that would imply that the FBI could not infiltrate it's agents into the mafia, but they can.


I do not deny that The FED is largely the opposite of the free market.... but that does not prove that it would be impossible to find a person more favorable to the free market to run the place... and the SEC for that matter also.

THe fact is that, despite the apparent irony, Alan Greenspan was quite effective in reducing the regulatory impact of the Fed as compared to a Fed chairman who actually believed that Fed economic regulation was important an necessary.

Exactly the same dynamic could be seen at the Bush SEC... where an organization dedicated to market regulation was essentially neutered by a person who did not believe it was a good thing to interfere with the market.

As far as lying is concerned... what is clearly a lie is for anyone to state (or imply) that the chairmen if the FED can have no impact to shape the organization into a more or less of an effective regulatory force. It is a a absolute fact that Greenspan was not in favor of fed regulation and led the Fed in a way to minimize its regulatory impact
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Top
#218229 - 03/29/12 12:04 AM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: itstarted]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11515
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Mr Greenspan said

Quote:
a humbled Mr. Greenspan admitted that he had put too much faith in the self-correcting power of free markets and had failed to anticipate the self-destructive power of wanton mortgage lending.
link


What are the implications of the above statement?

1. Mr Greenspan trusted in free markets rather than regulation

2. Mr. Greenspan could have intervened to prevent the mortgage debacle... but chose not to.... certainly in part because he felt it to be unnecessary given that markets are self regulating.

this does not mean that the Greenspan led fed did not intervene in the markets.... it does mean that he avoided significant opportunities to avoid the coming crash....
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Top
#218238 - 03/29/12 07:40 AM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: itstarted]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35952
Loc: Bay Area, California
The same free market guys from the Clinton Administration are in the Obama Administration: (sans Greenspan) Summers, Geitner, Bernanke.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#218239 - 03/29/12 07:47 AM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: issodhos]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35952
Loc: Bay Area, California
Originally Posted By: issodhos
One of the lies being propagated is that Greenspan was somehow the archetect of a free market economy and it was a "free market" economy that was the source of the latest clusterf..k. To recognize how utterly rediculous and disengenuous this is one need only realize that an institution such as the federal reserve is the absolute antithesis of a free market.
Issodhos

Frontline addressed that issue on another airing stating that Greenspan had to legally support laws that he abhorred. But, to the extent possible, Mr. Greenspan was completely hands-off, and promoted no regulation of the market.

Frontline: The Warning

Given that Greenspan had set Fed policy for several decades of presidential Administrations, his policies did in fact lead to the mid-2000s crisis.

Now, we have Greenspan's younger colleagues, from that time period, running the show. This is why Wall Street is getting all of the passes that its getting today.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#218250 - 03/29/12 11:43 AM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: california rick]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11515
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: california rick
The same free market guys from the Clinton Administration are in the Obama Administration: (sans Greenspan) Summers, Geitner, Bernanke.


Giethner, Summers and Bernanke are not Free Market ideologues.... they did join in the free market "group think" that was common in the 90s-and 2000s


One of the less known impacts of Greenspan was that he came to be known as some sort of infallible genius of he time. Therefore he was often asked for his views on situations outside his authority.... like whether there should be regulation of derivatives. And of course Greenspan most always successively set the tone for reduced no no regulation.

Greenspan had a unique style that he developed at the fed..... he would talk on and on with arcane verbiage whose meaning was barely comprehensible. You would know generally wheather he was for or against something, but it would be impossible to argue against his position because he seemed to be operating at a level beyond mere mortals.... and so his pronouncements carried the day like some incontrovertible, incomprehensible soothsayer.
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Top
#218251 - 03/29/12 11:53 AM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: california rick]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11515
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: california rick


Now, we have Greenspan's younger colleagues, from that time period, running the show. This is why Wall Street is getting all of the passes that its getting today.


FWIW, I think the group think has changed... even if the net output remains similar.

In the Greenspan era, their was near religious faith in free markets. In the present era, there is a skulking terror that one or more of the too big to fail dominoes will fall.... and the whole house of cards will come crashing down..... much like predicted by both Itstarted and Iss.
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Top
#218281 - 03/29/12 03:59 PM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: itstarted]
numan Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 10853
Loc: What! Me Worry?
'
Quote:

If the mafia is the antithesis of the FBI....

WHAT A STRANGE IDEA !!


Edited by numan (03/29/12 04:00 PM)
_________________________
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools -- Herbert Spencer

Top
#218301 - 03/29/12 05:50 PM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: Ardy]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35952
Loc: Bay Area, California
Originally Posted By: Ardy
One of the less known impacts of Greenspan was that he came to be known as some sort of infallible genius of he time. Therefore he was often asked for his views on situations outside his authority.... like whether there should be regulation of derivatives. And of course Greenspan most always successively set the tone for reduced no no regulation.

Frontline shows Greenspan to be front and center in strong opposition to Brooksley Born's CFTC. Greenspan was more than an advice giver... Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#218302 - 03/29/12 05:53 PM Re: How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men [Re: Ardy]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35952
Loc: Bay Area, California
Originally Posted By: Ardy
..and the whole house of cards will come crashing down..... much like predicted by both Itstarted and Iss.

The 'House of Cards' charade needs to come clean at some point-in-time.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
Page 14 of 16 < 1 2 ... 12 13 14 15 16 >

Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 9 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
xiawei, Marzman, kyleyoung8, Retread, solafeian
6003 Registered Users
A2