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#22741 - 07/23/07 10:00 AM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: issodhos]
Frazier Offline
journeyman

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 973
Loc: North of Atlanta
LOL! I just wish they really were just a self-righteous group of people blowing hot air. Sadly, they're not
_________________________
Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels -- men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, we may never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#22753 - 07/23/07 11:13 AM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: Frazier]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
Agreed Frazier, these are folks dead set on controlling your right to control the rights of your animals. Self righteous fascists indeed. I wonder though, is this a movement of extreme left wing tree hugger types or is it a right wing movement, like pro lifers, simply out to control anything and everything they deem in need of control?
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Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#22779 - 07/23/07 03:14 PM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: Greger]
stereoman Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 15646
Loc: Asheville, NC
I would liken PETA to NOW or the NEA: fighters for the rights of those perceived as "less than human" can sometimes seem overly radical to those with such perceptions, especially when they use tactics that are typically acceptable only when fighting for the rights of those considered "more than human".
_________________________
Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)


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#22802 - 07/23/07 06:43 PM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: Greger]
Sandy Price Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/06/99
Posts: 503
Loc: N.W. Phoenix
Greger. It is a very thin line between the left wing control nuts and the right wing wackos. No future on either side of that group of nuts. I grew up in a world where the state would have never dared to step into our lives as we have today.
_________________________
Sandy

I WANT DON IMUS BACK ON RADIO AND TELEVISION!!!

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#22817 - 07/23/07 10:53 PM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: Sandy Price]
Frazier Offline
journeyman

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 973
Loc: North of Atlanta
Steve,

Fighting for humane treatment of farm animals? A good thing.
Making sure animal cruelty is defined, and punishable? A good thing
Enforcing leash laws, and HUMAN responsibility for the actions of your pet? Yet another good thing

Sadly, PETA, among others are dead set to do away with companion animals NOT a good thing

I'm all for animal welfare, the proper care and humane housing of all animals, I'm not at all in favor of any group dictating to me that I must follow their dictates as far as my choice of companion goes. These are people with an agenda that goes far beyond 'humane and acceptable husbandry' and right into control freak territory. Personally, after reading many of the quotes from some of the AR leadership, I come away with the feeling that these 'leaders in the fight' dont' really LIKE animals, and they've found a warm and fuzzy way to convince the naive to follow their lead. Pacelle has been quoted as stating the goal of 'one generation and gone', meaning if all companions were spayed and neutered, we'd have no more companion animals(except for the ones we're importing from Mexico, Lebanon and other locales)
So, I'll stick with my goal to educate people on how to choose the correct pet for them, how to care for it, how to train it to be a good 'citizen' and hopefully cut down on the numbers of animals abandoned by clueless owners. I don't need the 'nanny state' to guide me in my life choices, and resent those who would impose that nanny on me forcefully, and I will resist their efforts with equal force. A side effect of 'my' fight, is that others will continue to enjoy the pet of their choosing.



Edited by Frazier (07/23/07 10:57 PM)
_________________________
Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels -- men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, we may never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#22822 - 07/24/07 12:45 AM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: Frazier]
stereoman Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 15646
Loc: Asheville, NC
 Originally Posted By: Frazier
Sadly, PETA, among others are dead set to do away with companion animals NOT a good thing


Oh that's interesting! I did not know that. Who is this Pacelle person?
_________________________
Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)


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#22824 - 07/24/07 01:52 AM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: stereoman]
Frazier Offline
journeyman

Registered: 02/09/04
Posts: 973
Loc: North of Atlanta
Wayne Pacelle is currently the president of the Humane Society of the United States(HSUS)
Here are some notable quotes from both Newkirk and Pacelle. If anyone is interested in more on the Animal Rights groups, a good site to look at is http://www.activistcash.com

“I don’t have a hands-on fondness for animals…To this day I don’t feel bonded to any non-human animal. I like them and I pet them and I’m kind to them, but there’s no special bond between me and other animals.” Wayne Pacelle quoted in Bloodties"

Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation." Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us? Harper's, August 1988, p. 50.

When asked if he envisioned a future without pets, “If I had my personal view, perhaps that might take hold. In fact, I don’t want to see another dog or cat born.” Wayne Pacelle quoted in Bloodties: Nature, Culture and the Hunt by Ted Kerasote


"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to exist." John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA

These and more can be found at http://www.naiaonline.org
_________________________
Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels -- men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, we may never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

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#22831 - 07/24/07 03:05 AM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: Frazier]
stereoman Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/30/04
Posts: 15646
Loc: Asheville, NC
I'm just finding out about this guy, Frazier. Fascinating!

The first place I look, of course, is Wikipedia. Can't always trust Wiki, I hear, but I find them a good jumping off point.

Here's what Wiki has to say about Pacelle:

 Quote:
Since 1994, the year he joined The HSUS, Pacelle has played a role in the passage of more than 15 federal statutes to protect animals – including laws to ban the sale of videos depicting animal cruelty (1999), to protect great apes in their native habitats (2000), to halt interstate transport of fighting animals (2002), to halt commerce in big cats for the pet trade (2003), and to require government agencies to include pets in disaster planning (2006). Pacelle has testified before U.S. House and Senate committees on animal protection issues including "canned hunting," funding for the Animal Welfare Act and other programs, the trophy hunting of threatened and endangered species, cockfighting and dogfighting, puppy mills, the exotic pet trade, bear baiting, and Chronic Wasting Disease. In addition, he has been the architect of a number of amendments to end federal subsidies for programs that harm animals, including a halt to funds for the mink industry.

Pacelle has been associated with 26 successful statewide ballot measure initiatives to protect animals, challenging cockfighting, shooting of mourning doves, insupportable hunting practices, the use of steel-jawed traps, and inhumane factory farming methods[8]. He has also been instrumental in the passage of numerous state laws dealing with animal protection.

The HSUS president has also been vocal in criticizing individuals and groups who resort to intimidation, vandalism, or violence in pursuit of animal protection goals.


Kind of reads like an anti-activistcashdotcom entry, doesn't it? I mean, if the guy's done all that, I have to wonder if the quotes offered by activistcashdotcom are maybe a little out of context.

The WAPO has an interesting article about him too. In it, I read:

 Quote:
Strong accusations. Pacelle just grins. "They all go wild on me," he says, adding that he has even received death threats. "My ex-boss . . . said you could tell a lot about a person by his friends and also by his enemies. I'm happy to have some of these people as my enemies."


Additionally, the activistcash site makes some heady accusations about HSUS:

 Quote:
Despite the words “humane society” on its letterhead, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) is not affiliated with your local animal shelter. Despite the omnipresent dogs and cats in its fundraising materials, it’s not an organization that runs spay/neuter programs or takes in stray, neglected, and abused pets.


Those kind of claims are usually easily vetted with Google. And sure enough, it looks to me like activistcash is being a little misleading or downright dishonest in its claims. I found very quickly that they are an advocacy organization, not a network of shelters, so of course they don't take in strays or run spay/neuter programs. But it's wrong to assume that means they are not involved with local shelters, though it is technically true that they are not affiliated. Technically. It's a technical truth. Which in my book is as good as a lie when it is told to intentionally mislead.

So why all the anti-Pacelle bloggery going on? Read the WAPO article. I found a lot of truth there.
_________________________
Steve
Give us the wisdom to teach our children to love,
to respect and be kind to one another,
so that we may grow with peace in mind.

(Native American prayer)


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#22844 - 07/24/07 09:26 AM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: stereoman]
Sandy Price Offline
journeyman

Registered: 01/06/99
Posts: 503
Loc: N.W. Phoenix
Sounds like the groups who bomb abortion clinics killing doctors, nurses and pregnant women just to make a point. I have owned cats and dogs for years and have found perfect friends in all of them. My dogs have been my companions even when the kids went off to college and the cats are always around the house keeping the rodents out.

I've tried to be sane in my love of animals but there is a story told by kids that I became a real witch one afternoon as I was sweeping the outdoor stairs in our mountain home. I looked down the hill and saw a young boy holding down my rooster and allowing his dog to kill him. My kids swear I jumped on my broom and rode it down to the lower property where I slammed the kid in the butt with it. My "Figaro" was dead and I told that kid that I would beat the hell out of him if he ever set foot on the property again.

I was mad enough to have tried to ride the broom but have no recollection of doing so. My kids swear I did and they cheered the wicked witch of the west all the way down. We buried my beautiful rooster and I got a call from an attorney about my assault on the kid. When he heard my side of the story, and that I had witnesses, he hung up. I never saw that kid again and someone said they moved off the hill. I let it be known that I had magical powers and to leave me alone!

You gotta do, what you gotta do!
_________________________
Sandy

I WANT DON IMUS BACK ON RADIO AND TELEVISION!!!

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#22846 - 07/24/07 09:44 AM Re: THE “RIGHTS” OF ANIMALS [Re: stereoman]
Greger Offline


Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 17271
Loc: Florida
Okeydokey, I read the WAPO interview and of course can't argue his stand on many points, Frazier might be more able to see through the spin than I am but his points on fighting animals, farm factories, canned hunting, and puppy mills are hard to argue with. All these are points which reflect the ethical use and treatment of animals which I have harped on during this entire thread. It becomes a question of just where do you draw the line and once it is drawn how much do you attempt to advance it.
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