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#227273 - 06/30/12 08:16 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17329
Oh, there will be plenty of "TEA Party" angst, because it is not fact or reality based. I wish it were possible to have a reasonable discussion with any of them about what the ACA is really about, but the frothing at the mouth really turns me off and tends to block their ears. I actually wrote a script about what the "talking heads" would say... and I saw on Daily Show last night that they have already used it - Daily Show, June 28 (minute 7) - before the end of the day, FOX and its friends in Congress were already bleating "tax increase!" And it didn't take long for Romney to say he would repeal it, and replace it.... with.. what... is... already.. in it.


Edited by NW Ponderer (06/30/12 08:19 PM)
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#227274 - 06/30/12 08:29 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17329
What do Australia, Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and the United Kingdom have in common? They all have better healthcare delivery systems and pay 1/3 to 1/2 as much for that service as the United States - How the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally, 2010 Update
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#227275 - 06/30/12 08:30 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Ardy]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7080
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
The "Big IDEA" that republican propose as a solution is increased competition ... republicans have given less thought to this idea

yeah i have been thinking the same way for some time

i like your take on true competitiveness of health care market itself but my take has been that the republicans are only concerned with insurance costs as if they influence and curb health care cost drivers ... i think they have it backwards for obvious reasons

they actually don;t have to "think" about it ... it is a simple ideological response i.e. free market good, everything else bad

if you or anyone else should get a handle on their position i would appreciate a heads up
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#227279 - 06/30/12 09:16 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16467
Loc: Florida
Quote:
free market good, everything else bad
The majority of Fox News Zombies, which are the majority of Republican voters, probably have little to no concept of what a "free market" is to begin with.
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#227281 - 06/30/12 09:42 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17329
I've noticed, too, Greger, the lack of basic economics understanding of TEA Partisans (and other libertarian outlets). A "free market" can only remain free so long as it is regulated. What is often misstated (usually on purpose), is that regulation kills markets, although that has never been true, historically. The deliberate distortion is inserted by conflation of market procedures and market content. Try this experiment sometime: ask a TEA Partisan if he uses checks or electronic transfers to pay his/her bills. Of course they do. Now consider what would happen if there was no process to regulate how those transactions were performed. That is precisely what they are arguing for, and they don't understand it. The market for what they pay for with checks is not affected by regulation of the transactions, but the procedure is what makes the transaction possible.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#227282 - 06/30/12 09:46 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: pdx rick]
Lillibet Offline
moderator
enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2262
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted By: california rick
Originally Posted By: Lillibet
As for Roberts being the swing, I thought it was likely because the real money is the insurance industry in this decision. Therefore, as night follows day, Roberts followed the money. (Where have we heard that before???)

You know, I've been thinking the very same. Justice Roberts would be consistent in his love-affair with corporate dollars.
If you think the insurance industry is going to walk away from all these dollars they're now getting for insuring everyone, you've likely got another think coming.
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#227293 - 06/30/12 11:34 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Lillibet]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 42486
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Lillibet
Originally Posted By: california rick
Originally Posted By: Lillibet
As for Roberts being the swing, I thought it was likely because the real money is the insurance industry in this decision. Therefore, as night follows day, Roberts followed the money. (Where have we heard that before???)

You know, I've been thinking the very same. Justice Roberts would be consistent in his love-affair with corporate dollars.
If you think the insurance industry is going to walk away from all these dollars they're now getting for insuring everyone, you've likely got another think coming.

Why else would Karen Ignani be for the mandate?
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#227294 - 06/30/12 11:35 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Lillibet]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16467
Loc: Florida
Whatever Robert's reason, I'm just glad he chose to rule in favor of the ACA. Liberals don't win very many political victories and those few we do win are hard fought and usually imperfect.
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#227298 - 07/01/12 01:13 AM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Greger]
itstarted Offline
old hand

Registered: 01/27/03
Posts: 6428
Loc: Florida/Illinois
For all of the discussion here, on TV, and the printed media...
A simple question:

Does anyone know the Who, What, Why, How and When of the Program?

Who pays? Who doesn't pay?
When does it begin?
Who pays and when?
...Federal Government
...State Government
...Employer
...Employee
...Indigent
Insurers... In State? Out of state?
Immigrants?
Pay for young people? or Free?
Tax for not signing up?
Mandatory Hospital Admissions? Who pays.
How Much will plans cost? More, Less?
Self employed costs?
Unemployed?
Seniors w/o medicare
What is Phase in period?
Prisoners?
Veterans?
Rehab Programs
What tests?
Physician record compliance?
Accreditation
Indian and special laws.
Chiropractors/Acupuncture/Homeopathy/Yoga/Religious beliefs?
Home Health Care
Eligibility for low/no income payments
Prescription Drug rules
Wellness test limits?

This list can go on forever.
I don't believe that anyone really knows what they are talking about.

Rather strange to see so much ado about constitutionality when the lawmakers themselves don't have a very good idea about what the program plans to do.

Wonderful to have millions of experts to discuss a subject thay don't understand in the first place.

Am I the only one who doesn't know the answers to the questions?

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#227300 - 07/01/12 01:26 AM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: itstarted]
Ozymanithrax Offline
member

Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 1347
Loc: California
Itstarted, this is a link to the ACA. Everything you want to know is there.

Link to the affordable care act.
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