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#228093 - 07/08/12 01:49 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
chunkstyle Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 2356
So was calling it the "Affordable Care Act" being ironic?
If it only slows down the pace to which we hit the wall of unaffordability for the health industry then perhaps it would have been better to have never passed it at all.
If fewer and fewer people are able to finances the industries the faster it will hit the wall and fewer people will swallow the hash of socialism, etc..
I guess I would rather be killed quickly rather than the slow financial asphyxiation by those two snakes.

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#228095 - 07/08/12 02:23 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: chunkstyle]
Greger Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 16467
Loc: Florida
I think despite weaknesses in the ACA it will make health care more affordable and reduce the number of uninsured Americans as Medicaid and Medicare are expanded and as employers are given tax breaks(and mandates) for insuring employees. Some have seen recent increases in premiums and some will receive rebates.
Some of you self employed folks are pretty much gonna get the dirty end of the stick on this deal. I was self employed for over 25 years. It comes with a certain amount of freedom that you cannot get as an employee.
As often as not I found that freedom to be like a ball and chain.
No paid holidays, no sick days, no vacations, no retirement.
No benefits at all and certainly...

No Insurance.
_________________________
Good coffee, good weed, and time on my hands...

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#228100 - 07/08/12 03:19 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: chunkstyle]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7080
Loc: Highlands, Tx
the alternative was to pass a bill in which nothing was done and calling it Health Care for the Rich and Famous or the rest of Americans are fracked

I think we as Americans have been assaulted in recent years with a mind numbing array of social issues all of which have not been adequately resolved. Perhaps social issues never will be, but an attempt to at least have the conversation is necessary for Americans to move on. As long as Americans maintain the ever deepening schism separating our political thinking we will not be able to settle these issues.

My analogy: our country has a flesh eating bacteria gnawing away at our heart and soul. The conservative response is to allow the free markets resolve the problem. The liberal response, while not as drastic as some may think, is to tentatively amputate.

Don't give up hope. I think we have finally started this discussion in earnest.
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
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#228101 - 07/08/12 03:28 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17329
Originally Posted By: rporter314
i think there is a big misunderstanding of ACA regarding health care costs

ACA can not make the costs stop rising ... it can not reduce the current costs

Ultimately ACA is meant to bend the cost curve,...

The point you see is without attacking the cost drivers all we do is forestall the inevitable.

I have to disagree, rp. While it primarily bends the cost curve, it also will ultimately reduce costs for most (while increasing for some, it is true). I am going to start a wonky post about this, but this is the gist of how costs will be reduced, in 3 1/2 parts: 1st, it increases the pool by bringing an additional 30 million people into the pool (the half is that it also pays some of those people to jump into the pool); 2nd, it will (eventually) move many of those people from seeking expensive emergency room care to more preventative care, which is far cheaper; and third, it maximizes the amount of overhead that insurance carriers add to the costs of people in the pool. Many people (not a majority, but millions) will get refunds shortly (by August) for that last reason. These three mechanisms, by the way, work in tandem.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#228326 - 07/10/12 03:57 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Ted Remington]
Lillibet Offline
moderator
enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2262
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
Originally Posted By: Lillibet
If, and that's a big if, I get a check, I hope it for more than the $3833 my insurance went up this last year. Or, more than the $2021 it went up two years ago. Or, that it's more than the $1835.87 it went up three years ago.

I fear I'll get a check for $127 and an attaboy.

Originally Posted By: Ted Remington
Good God! What kind of insurance do you have? Are there no alternatives available to you?
I have private insurance as the sole employee of my little one person firm. As such, when I turned one of those high numbers on the birthday lottery wheel, they dropped the ball into the 'raise it as high as you can' slot. I also have been misdiagnosed with cancer I didn't have, meaning the bones that should have been set weren't, which now means I have a 'preexisting condition' and can only get insurance for people with more money than Romney can afford.

As a result, that policy that was mega-affordable is now akin to buying the Hope Diamond on a monthly basis. Insurance is more than rent, food, and phone combined. Well, I don't buy food anymore, depending on the kindness of strangers and the local food pantry. Insurance pays for no prescriptions, but did arrange a price for pain medication that is only $487 per month,, until I get past the out of pocket per year hurdle, which is high. Very high indeed.

What happened was a combination of birthdays and anticipation of the ACA. In advance, insurance companies have been sticking it to the self employed. Have no fear, the insurance industry will come up with reasons to keep those rates, and will easily justify the numbers to maintain the low (gag) 20 percent profit margin.

So, I am stuck until the shoulder is surgically repaired, and that's getting to be almost an emergency because the pain is getting to the point that I can't stand it any more. I am so tired of pain, medicines, more pain, more medicine, and not having enough money coming in to take the time needed to recover from surgery I need but can't afford, especially if there is any part of it not covered by the insurance I can't afford. I don't even have enough money after rent and insurance to afford x-rays and a doctor visit.

So, now we have the ACA, which is anything but a truth in labeling law. It will be affordable for those that are in corporations that make enough to afford what the self employed increasingly cannot.
_________________________
"I am young, whole, perfect, strong, powerful, loving, harmonious, and happy." ~~~ Kato Havas

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#228361 - 07/10/12 07:47 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3466
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
Supposedly, the ACA will institute a communistic exchange in your state that will allow individuals to purchase insurance at a group rate instead of as an individual. Ostensibly, this is to help people get affordable insurance but its real purpose is to take choices from individuals and profit from hard-working and maligned companies.
_________________________
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues - AB Breivik

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#228362 - 07/10/12 07:53 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4939
That's abut the ugliest scenario I've heard in the health insurance field in years, Lillibet. My heart goes out to you.

The US had it in its grasp to make all of this go away with little of the trouble trial and trauma that has gripped our country for the past two or three years. All we had to do was open up the FEHB plan to all comers. If I read what you said correctly, your premiums have increased more than $7,500 per year in the last three years. I have no idea what it was before the increases, but if it was $2,500 then you would be spending around $10K on insurance!

If you had been allowed to enroll in the FEHBP your total premium would have been in the neighborhood of $6,000 per year for single person coverage in the HMO known as Illinois Humana CoverageFirst, which is just one of the Illinois HMO plans available under the FEHBP. To me HMOs are the gold standard, and there are quite a few available in Illinois, which means there is competition among them.

FEHBP has no restrictions on pre-existing conditions, so that would not have been a worry.

The premium I cited above was the equivalent of a self-employed premium, that is, the gross prior to any employer copay. The thing about employer copays, as everyone should know, is that they come out of the pocket of the employee in the form of lower wages, so the only way to make comparisons is to look at the gross premium cost.

The reality is that this approach would have cost the government exactly zero dollars. They would simply have been the conduit through which you reached the pool of insurance companies.
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Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#228365 - 07/10/12 08:26 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3040
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Hopefully, after the election, IF the Dems get elected they will revisit and adjust the existing law which, according to a host of folks was pretty badly written. Now, if they can also get a break even public option to compete with the for profit insurance companies.....

Gov, incidentally, has proven, with Medicare, that they can deliver healthcare for a LOT less than the insurance companies (it would be a LOT better if they could also get the fraud and abuse under control).

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#228474 - 07/11/12 03:33 PM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Ted Remington]
Lillibet Offline
moderator
enthusiast

Registered: 12/19/05
Posts: 2262
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
The problem is that I do have a preexisting condition. That is, because the shoulder wasn't set, and no setting it is getting close to impossible, and because I take a lot of pain medication which costs the earth, I cannot qualify for new insurance until the shoulder is set.

And yes, I am paying something close to $10,000 per year. Actually, In fact, I am paying closer to $14,000 per year. Add $500 per month for medicine, and you have an idea of what I spend on medical issues alone. That monthly expenditure is based on what the pharmacy charges me for medicine that is covered, but only to the extent allowed by the company. So, the problem is that until the whole bill kicks in, I don't really qualify for any relief from the high rates that I am currently paying.

Too bad I did $105,000 of legal work last year and only was paid $3500. That's what we call in the biz complex litigation against firms with the ability to staff a case with 10 attorneys and I am just a solo keeping with the opposition, and the client claims he can't afford more. Like an idiot, I do patents and trademarks and our rules are different. We can't withdraw for non-payment after a certain point in the case without the judge approving it, and the judge said no.
_________________________
"I am young, whole, perfect, strong, powerful, loving, harmonious, and happy." ~~~ Kato Havas

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#228592 - 07/12/12 03:19 AM Re: The ACA is Constitutional!!! [Re: Chuck Howard]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 17329
and the f'n judge gets a 6 figure salary no matter how incompetent.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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