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#228197 - 07/09/12 01:21 PM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7209
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
emergency services

i think the salient features are ... services & emergency

while any reductions are helpful consider the following ...
emergency rooms must maintain equipment & personnel regardless of the number of people seeking service ... it is simply the cost of providing a beneficial and necessary service for the community which i suspect no one would be against

2 days of the week and 16 hours of any other day are not on my doctors office hours ... i, therefore, in case of an "emergency" must seek help in an emergency room, and I am fairly sure my doctor, depending on severity of emergency, would probably send me to a hospital anyway. There is a baseline for which there is probably very little which can be done regarding cost reduction.

I don;t have a feel for other possible ER uses, so won;t speculate. (Apparently there are some people who think of an ER as their family doctor's office.)

All of this is not meant to minimize the impact of preventative medicine. If we assume the reason other industrialized countries have a significantly lower health care cost per capita is they are more healthy than Americans, then using one statistic we are paying at least 50% or more than other countries on that care. WOW!!! But that is only a wow if the assumption is valid.

But you raised another issue which I don;t understand. You said that ER service costs would decrease if certain conditions are met, among which are reduced pressure from non-emergency care, etc. So my question is suppose we did all we could do to immediately reduce the costs of health care, why would a hospital charge any less for their service? why would a doctor charge less for his service? why would a pharmaceutical co charge less for drugs? so while insurance costs were reduced the underlying cost drivers are alive and well and still rising.

The current national point of discussion is the health care industry costs have been rising at higher than inflation and with that rapid rise will impact not only personal finances but our federal budgets. It would appear from this discussion the real enemy are the people who abuse health care through a variety of reasons but mostly from poor health which could have been prevented.

From this I should conclude that it is in the national interest that people should maintain a regimen of healthy preventative care. You can see I have arrived at a political position which many would consider unacceptable.

I think the whole point of all the posts is we got problems ... and there are no easy solutions
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
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#228220 - 07/09/12 05:24 PM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: NW Ponderer]
keysersoze Offline
journeyman

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 884
Here in Massachusetts the major reason for Romneycare was the 1B being spent on hospital care for the uninsured. That worked out fairly well. As far as costs of any new program I'll have to wait on it,

Will the current $96 my wife and I each spend on Medicare expand rapidly?

Will our coverage for C & D under GIC remain relatively low? The GIC also gives exceptional coverage but since it is rated via negotiations anything can happen especially now that health care can be excluded from the bargaining process in Massachusetts.

But the most important consideration is highly personal. I have had great coverage with GIC. Really blue plate. So will I be lowered to the standards of the Hoi Polli or will they be raised to mine?
_________________________
Only racists oppose my dictatorship.

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#228268 - 07/10/12 02:24 AM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: NW Ponderer]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1668
Loc: Middle, USA
Using logic is really an unfair tactic. Logic is like kryptonite to Republicans.

"Logic ... growing weaker ... can't think ... not fair ...
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#228280 - 07/10/12 03:00 AM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: Spag-hetti]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10162
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Ahem. Using logic in countering NonCon fantasies doesn't make them weaker. It just ups the crazy ante.
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#228281 - 07/10/12 03:18 AM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: logtroll]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1668
Loc: Middle, USA
Well, Ok, there's THAT. Think we could get crazy? Bet we could if we practiced. Maybe we could raise the stakes. There's a lot of us.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#228299 - 07/10/12 12:18 PM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: Spag-hetti]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10162
Loc: One of the Mexicos
There is a brand new anti-Obama TV ad airing around here that has a core message saying "Obamacare is a $1.7 trillion new tax on Americans". Of course, this has not enough information or context to have any meaning, but I am assuming that the $1.7 trillion is the estimated total for U.S. healthcare costs under ACA, which is supposed to include services for an additional 30,000,000 folks.

My first thought was, what does it cost now? From wikipedia: "The Office of the Actuary (OACT) of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services publishes data on total health care spending in the United States, including both historical levels and future projections.[29] In 2007, the U.S. spent $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person, up from $2.1 trillion, or $7,026 per capita, the previous year."

Healthcare in the U.S.

Seems that ACA is cheaper.

Since most existing healthcare insurance would remain in place, it also seems like a baldfaced lie that the entire cost of healthcare would be paid for by a "new tax".

In any case, I fail to see the difference between paying for something using taxes or having me write the check directly to a corporation, except that it is apparently much cheaper to do it through taxes.

Are the Republicans just crazy-stupid, or are they liars? Or both?
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#228303 - 07/10/12 12:56 PM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 10162
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Seems we can dance together, why can't we do healthcare together?

Astronomy picture of the day
_________________________
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the old model obsolete.”
– R. Buckminster Fuller

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#228325 - 07/10/12 03:52 PM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: logtroll]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1668
Loc: Middle, USA
Thanks for the dance, LT. I watched with a smile on my mouth and a tear in my eye.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#228368 - 07/10/12 10:09 PM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: NW Ponderer]
jgw Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 3247
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
If I remember correctly there were some other provisions to goto work on our healthcare. They are, right now, in theory collecting data on all procedures. If not they will be. This will allow go to determine what procedures actually work (this is, I think, a pretty good idea?). They are also supposed to collect a slew of stats; which procedures work, which doctors have success, which hospitals do it best, which hospitals do it better, etc. This is all stuff we do not have now although there are some private providers who have been gathering such information. Then there is the thing about paying for outcome instead of paying for procedures which, in theory will also reduce costs. All this kind of stuff, when put into place is supposed to help with costs. I can't remember all of it but, in theory there is a lot of stuff like that which will eventually kick in.

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#228392 - 07/11/12 12:21 AM Re: How the ACA reduces medical costs [Re: jgw]
rporter314 Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 7209
Loc: Highlands, Tx
You basically have it right

It is a medical board of physicians etc who analyze all manner of medical stuff and promote the use of the most cost effective stuff. This was the original death panel but was later changed to another feature when the anti ACA people realized insurance companies did essentially the same thing by denying coverage for anything but standard procedures etc. But keep in mind that even with the board, if a patient wants the more expensive test, that would be done.

This is one of the ways ACA attempts to address one of the rising cost drivers. This tack should really help stabilize these costs as most have long term histories of effective prognosis and as such those rising costs should be modest.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty
Get off the crazy train!!! ... dump Trump

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