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#246080 - 12/15/12 12:22 AM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
Okay, that tells me that I should try cutting up my chuck roast into smaller pieces to get more of the yummy outside stuff to the inside. I know this has to work somehow: I have had oso buco and it was terrific.

I found some Swanson unsalted beef stock at my local market, so I'm going to try using that with some mirepoix and tomato paste blended in to approximate the demi glace.

I've been reading a bit about the five mother sauces, and was surprised to see that I have already been making several of them without knowing their names or place in classical French cooking. (I just knew what I liked. smile )

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#246083 - 12/15/12 12:38 AM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14415
Loc: Florida
I feel like it's a time/temperature problem. It appears that any flavor the meat had has been transferred to the liquid rather than vice versa. The liquid is amazing!
What works for Osso Buco does not work for chuck roast.
Next time I'll use a seven bone roast, There wasn't enough internal fat in the chuck. And I'll go with a longer cook at a lower temp.
It's not as bad as my mothers pot roast but braised meat should be soft, moist and flavorful.
Three strikes against this chunk of meat, it was none of the three.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#246107 - 12/15/12 02:37 AM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
a time/temperature problem


Some of the chuck roast recipes I have been reading talk about cooking it for 4 or 5 hours, instead of the 2 hours that Fabio used for his shank slices. The fact that it was not tender suggests that there was not enough time over 160 F to get all the connective tissue converted into collagen and then into gelatin.

I recall reading that the muscle fibers tighten up and squeeze all of the juice out in the first phase of cooking. This makes tough meat even tougher. Then as that connective tissue conversion is near done, the muscle fibers relax and uncoil. This draws liquid back into the meat. So a tough and flavorless roast, but tasty liquid, does seem consistent with the "too short" hypothesis.

If you still have most of the roast and braising liquid, you might just try putting it all back in the oven (or a crock pot) for a few more hours. Might as well experiment, since it doesn't sound like you want to eat it as is.

I believe that surrounding the meat with braising liquid keeps it from going over 212 F, as long as there is liquid left. So it is much less likely to get burned or overcooked than a dry roasting method.

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#246112 - 12/15/12 03:56 AM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14415
Loc: Florida
Your analysis I think is correct.
Slow roasting is my specialty. I'm fairly new to braising anything but lambshanks. Fact is, I'm not much of a beef fan at all. In slow roasting the idea is to bring the meat up to the 200 degree internal temp as slowly as possible. The same should work with braising and I was kind of skeptical of the 2 hours at 325. But it works with veal shanks...

I don't think you can put it back together and start over once it's cooled. I sliced it very thin(which should have been impossible) and put the slices back in the liquid. I'll put it back in the oven for a couple of hours at 300 degrees tomorrow and eat it on mashed potatoes or an open faced sandwich.





Next time I think I'll let it cook 5-6 hours at 225.
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#246216 - 12/15/12 08:25 PM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Greger]
Sandune Offline
member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1972
Here is a recipe from CFI (Center For Inquiry) A sort of science place.

ever try Tiramisu? I discovered it from a recipe and challenged it because it was a coffee flavored treat. It’s the best treat I’ve ever had. Ice cream, coffee liqueur, these ‘lady finger’ things, a cheese, and cocoa. Alcohol, coffee, cream and sugar!!


I will give it a try when I can drive again. I'm having dizzy spells caused by advanced old age. I'm having company over the weekend and will celebrate using the above recipe if the 49ers win tomorrow. If they lose, the cat will make some meatloaf.
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#246223 - 12/15/12 09:18 PM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Sandune]
Joe Keegan Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/25/05
Posts: 8707
Have the meatloaf.

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#246231 - 12/15/12 09:45 PM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Sandune]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14415
Loc: Florida
Here's a very traditional Tiramisu.


Raw eggs? I'm ok with it but some folks probably aren't.


Edited by Greger (12/15/12 09:48 PM)
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"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

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#246260 - 12/16/12 02:13 AM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Greger]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 8069
Loc: North San Diego County
I cut my chuck roast into five pieces, so each was no more than 2" thick or wide. I browned them well in olive oil, then laid them on top of a bed of seasoned (rosemary, thyme, garlic) mirepoix (sauteed onion, celery, carrot) in my crock pot.

I heated 16 oz of Swanson unsalted beef stock with about a cup of that same seasoned mirepoix, and added a tablespoon of beef base to make it stronger. I added two tablespoons of tomato paste, and then used an immersion blender to break up the vegetable pieces.

Then I poured the mixture over the beef pieces until they were just about covered. Cooked on high setting for five hours. Meat thermometer said the center of the largest piece was just over 160 F.

Result was very tender, but a little bland. I was disappointed with the beef stock I started with: Seemed like brown water, with little beef flavor. By the time it was done, the beef with sauce was pretty good but most of the flavor was in the sauce.

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#246261 - 12/16/12 02:51 AM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41065
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
Raw eggs? I'm ok with it but some folks probably aren't.

Raw eggs come pasteurized in a carton, now. smile
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#246262 - 12/16/12 02:51 AM Re: Wonder what the poor folks are eatin' tonight? [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41065
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Grilled pork chop, 3-cheese lasagna, sautéed Brussels sprouts.
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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