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#256814 - 05/11/13 04:46 PM Is gambling a form of Capitalism?
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Sub-question: is buying into the stock market investing; or gambling?

My position is that the majority of what is called investing in the stock market is not actually investing, but is a form of gambling.

My gut feeling is that gambling is not a form of Capitalism. I don't think it is Corporatism, either, but I think that the folks who manage the gambling investments, whatever the correct entity name might be, are the biggest culprits in the screwing of humanity and the planet. Are they called Money-Changers?
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#256818 - 05/11/13 06:06 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Sub-question: is buying into the stock market investing; or gambling?

My position is that the majority of what is called investing in the stock market is not actually investing, but is a form of gambling.

My gut feeling is that gambling is not a form of Capitalism. I don't think it is Corporatism, either, but I think that the folks who manage the gambling investments, whatever the correct entity name might be, are the biggest culprits in the screwing of humanity and the planet. Are they called Money-Changers?


I would think that it would, in part, depend upon how narrowly or broadly one is defining "gambling" and "investment", logtroll, and whether "gambling" is being used as a synonym for "speculating" or not. In general, I think an "investment", in the economic sense, would be something that is held for what might be considered long-term (say at least 5 years as an example) and produces a steady stream of anticipated predictable approximate cash-flows over a specific time period or a predictable anticipated future lump-sum "return on and of investment" and carries with it anticipated low-risk of loss. The assumption here is that "gambling" in this sense is not referring to simply making an un-informed purchase of a stock or injection of principle in some other "investment" vehicle.

I would think that "speculation" would be an informed injection of principle into a venture or purchase that relies for its return on an increase in the value of the underlying product above and beyond mere monetary inflation, or simply relies on an increased desire for the product (increased demand regardless of cause).

I would think that "gambling" is simply an un-informed hope of something paying off. In answer to your question, I do not think gambling is a form of capitalism, but gambling can be engaged in within a capitalist structure such as a stockmarket.
Yours,
Issodhos
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#256856 - 05/12/13 03:53 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: issodhos]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
That's not far off my take on it all, though I think there is reason to inquire more specifically about the relation of speculation to capitalism. There is a wide range of application of speculation, from plain-ass gambling to predicting, and acting upon, upcoming business needs and opportunities.

I would add manipulating markets using capital to the list of ethically illegitimate uses of money.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#256857 - 05/12/13 03:59 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
Sandune Offline
member

Registered: 11/09/10
Posts: 1972
Scoutgirl. Put me out of my misery and ban me from this site please. Apparently there is nobody here who can write a single thought about investing in free enterprise Capitalism is a filthy word to many who could use a class or two of academics.

America will settle into socialism because free enterprise is a foreign language. Reader Ranters have no consept of investing in something grand, ethical and a place where people can work and grow. I'm embarrassed for Doug's participation.
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#256859 - 05/12/13 04:43 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: Sandune]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Sandune
Scoutgirl. Put me out of my misery and ban me from this site please. Apparently there is nobody here who can write a single thought about investing in free enterprise Capitalism is a filthy word to many who could use a class or two of academics.

America will settle into socialism because free enterprise is a foreign language. Reader Ranters have no consept of investing in something grand, ethical and a place where people can work and grow. I'm embarrassed for Doug's participation.


Sandune, I just love your randy sense of humor!! Ayn't it the truth! ROTFMOL
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#256861 - 05/12/13 05:17 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: Sandune]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
free enterprise Capitalism

yeah I am partial to robber barons (if I am the baron) o and the frequent periodicity of recessions ... o man i love torturing the little guy who make up maybe 99% ... o and Keynesian government amelioration of economic impact of capitalism runamok recessions ... let the peons eat cake

of course those damn Founders started this thing off with "We the people ..." and they should have started it off with "I, the individual ..."
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#256862 - 05/12/13 05:21 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6403
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
illegitimate uses

can there really be an illegitimate use of money?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#256869 - 05/12/13 09:07 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Quote:
illegitimate uses

can there really be an illegitimate use of money?


Why, shore thar kin be! Ya jist puts "illegitimate uses fer money" on the side of a concept storage box, then ya puts in scraps a paper that names all the illegitimate uses!

All comes down ta definitions and storage systems, like inny philosophy!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#256874 - 05/12/13 10:26 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: Sandune]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7565
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Reader Ranters have no consept of investing in something grand, ethical and a place where people can work and grow.


That's not true at all, Sandy. I have stock in lots of companies that I believe have great prospects for future growth, in market-share, stock value, earnings returned to stockholders. But real investors also look for companies that have lost their vision, are being run by incompetent managers, or are in a dying market for their products. Then we sell those stocks short or do the same thing using options. I also invest in big companies that have a lock on their market, but no significant opportunity for future growth, by using option spreads.

Successful investing is a bit more complicated than some 1940's myth of one man's genius creating a fountain of wealth, rainbows, and a chicken in every pot of his serfs. I know this from experience because the corporate projects I usually work on take a team of at least 60 highly-competent people to get a state-of-the-art product out the door.

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#256875 - 05/12/13 10:36 PM Re: Is gambling a form of Capitalism? [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7565
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
can there really be an illegitimate use of money?


Aren't drug dealers the ultimate Capitalists? They are highly motivated individuals who use their own money to buy input materials in bulk from wholesalers. Then they or their workers turn those raw materials into finished retail units (EG. "dime bags"), and hit the streets to participate in the free market or use their established business relationships to deliver the goods to their regular customers. They supply 100% of their capital, infrastructure, and security needs with no dependence on government services or subsidies.

Imagine that: A successful business built on one man's vision and initiative! LOL

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