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#256817 - 05/11/13 02:05 PM Distractions
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
It seems that all politics now seem to be centered on Bengazi. Its a REALLY big deal! Now they are talking about impeachment! Horrors!

This is an effort to put some perspective on this one. The main problem seems to have been two. The first was that 4 Americans were killed and the second is that bureaucracy simply did not want anybody to know they may have screwed up.

Now, for the 4 Americans. I am not for killing Americans but we are killing at least twice that number, every week, in Afghanistan and I am failing to hear any outrage on that one. Afganistan is pesky (to say the least). The man in charge of that country, Karzai, says he is grateful for the bags of cash we donate to him regularly although its pretty apparent that he does not like us and wants us gone. It also seems that WE have been bribing the very people that we are trying to kill so they will let us bring in supplies. When we started on this the Taliban had stopped all drug production, now they are a world class drug provider. Anybody that has been there will tell you that its not getting better its getting worse. The basis for victory, over the last 10 years has been changed at least 2 times a year. I can go on and on about this one but, I guess, I am out of step with reality in that Bengazi is must be much worse than this!

Then there is our bureaucracy. If nothing else we have a bureaucracy which is, obviously, REALLY good at covering its own a**, building mini kingdoms, taking charge, doing what they damn well please. I have harped on this before. I know that everybody believes its all politics but I don't think so. What it is about is keeping the job. Since Obama started there have been 750,000 (THOUSAND!) bureaucrats let go yet, I think, they still find time to screw the pooch and take care of number 1. Its almost amusing that the Republicans would neglect to say anything about the bureaucracy whilst trying desperately (and failing) to blame everything on Obama and, now, Clinton (Hillary).

What I think its all about is distraction. They do not want anybody to even consider the ongoing disaster of Afghanistan so we have Bengazi which would seem, on the face of it, to be a complete waste of time. In theory we will be leaving that benighted country next year so, at the rate of, say, 8 Americans dead every week its only going to take the lives of something over 100 more kids killed before we leave. Well, then again, maybe not and maybe more. Seems we will leave a few thousand there so that the Afghan warrior will not be completely bereft of targets to practice on.

We have now been doing, as far as I can tell, the same thing, over and over, for over 10 years with few results. They say that one definition of insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expect different results. There has been, recently, an outcry for mental health. Perhaps there should be an outcry for our governmental mental health too. Again, I am not convinced that any of this has anything to do with politics as both sides seem to be colluding in this stuff!

Just saying..........

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#256836 - 05/11/13 11:01 PM Re: Distractions [Re: jgw]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10550
Loc: Downey, California
Benghazi is the New Whitewater, the new witchhunt.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#256842 - 05/12/13 09:59 AM Re: Distractions [Re: jgw]
loganrbt Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 5850
Loc: Massaphuggintwoshirts
Originally Posted By: jgw
It seems that all politics now seem to be centered on Bengazi.


No, not ALL politics. Only the politics of the wing nut and "divert attention from our obstructionist killing of America" branches of the party formerly known as Republicans.

Just because it's all they can find to talk about doesn't mean you have to listen to or read about it.

Their hero got moved from an embassy position to a job at the State Department in DC. Most folks would view this as a "promotion to headquarters" but not their hero! He thinks he should have been promoted to Ambassador to Somewhere! Just because he had a totally flawed view of how long it takes to get a military soiree organized and executed, a false patriot's view of whether a soiree "just for show" is worth the tax dollars necessary to make it happen, and an idiot's perception of how much good 4 guys with combat gear can do the day after 4 people already were dead.

Let's talk about the facts, not the conjecture based on totally silly interpretation of the facts for purely political and diversionary purposes.

Used to be the House GOP leadership thought passing a budget was the most important thing Capitol Hill could do. Until the Senate passed a budget. Now the GOP leadership won't even appoint members to a conference committee so one can be passed and sent for signature.

They'd rather keep this story alive as something, anything, to hide behind.
_________________________
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown

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#256868 - 05/12/13 04:15 PM Re: Distractions [Re: loganrbt]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1245
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Let me try one more time. Bengazi is all about how government dealt with an attack, in a country which was in absolute chaos. The CIA produced a document with the facts and the state department proceeded to make changes until there was nothing left of the original document. The document, and all changes therein were made, not at the behest of a politician (as far as anybody knows). Those making the changes were a bunch of bureaucrats emulating a dog pissing on a tree.

My main problem with Bengazi is not Bengazi but the fact that a corrupt, useless, and really offensive so called war which, just about everybody has agreed cannot actually be "won". A war that is costing American taxpayers 2 freaking BILLION dollars a week!! A war where we are busily giving away shopping bags full of hundred dollar bills to not only to bribe our "ally" but also to bribe our enemies. This war, is killing, weekly, 2 to 3 times the number of Americans killed in Bengazi and is being completely ignored. It is being ignored by news folks and its being ignored by bureaucrats, and its being ignored by the elected.

If we had a draft, right now, the War in Afghanistan would NOT exist!



Edited by jgw (05/12/13 04:16 PM)

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#256873 - 05/12/13 06:13 PM Re: Distractions [Re: jgw]
loganrbt Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 5850
Loc: Massaphuggintwoshirts
Let me try one more time. The U.S. Government was in absolute chaos following an attack on its consulate in Benghazi and professionals who knew a whole lot more about what was happening and had happened seem to have done their best to piece together from a variety of sources what happened and why.

Did the CIA and the State Department disagree about the facts in the heat of the moment? Apparently so. Were the facts so obvious in the first 48 hours that there was no way any such agreement could have been honorable? Gee, I don't know. Neither does Issa or anyone else on the committee; neither does the twit who was sitting in Tripoli and now wants the world to believe he was the only person in the world who knew the truth.

Is there any evidence whatsoever that either Hillary Clinton or anyone in the White House knew enough to decide whether the talking points Susan Rice used were right to wrong; did either make any attempt to "amend" the talking points for political reasons; would the reality we now THINK we know have had any impact on the election (which seems to be the point Issa and his Ilk are trying to make) by persuading voters they were safer with Mitt Romney? A fun parlor game to play but no valid basis for spending all the tax payer dollars that are being spent to keep this alive in the Halls of Congress. By people who claim they want to shrink the size of government. How much has Issa decreased committee staff this year?

But of you want to talk about Afghanistan, why didn't you say so in the first place?
_________________________
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown

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#256877 - 05/12/13 07:27 PM Re: Distractions [Re: jgw]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
I'm going to go further, logan and jgw.

The fault, dear Brutus, is in our star reporters as well as in ourselves. We hunger for instant news gratification, we crave the ten-second sound bite, and the government must try to satisfy that hunger to prevent our voracious selves from saying, "What are they trying to hide? Why can we not get the facts right now?"

We really ought to know better by now. And so should the government. Rather than put together a hurried response to meet the press deadlines that make or break reporters, the government should have said, "Whoa! Stop! Desist! Back off! This is a very fluid situation and we don't yet have a handle on what is going on. Let's take 24 or 48 or 72 hours and get the facts and then when we know we will tell you."

I was for twelve years a firefighter, and the very first lesson I learned was that if you hurry, if you run, if you fall and break your neck trying to get to the scene, you are not going to do anyone a damned bit of good. In fact, you are going to make things worse because you will tie up two more sets of first responders, one to take your place and the other one to help you out of the mess you got into. I quit that job specifically because of all of the criticism I took for being a relatively sane, deliberate driver who rarely sped going to the scene, but who could put on a burst of speed transporting a patient to the hospital if the benefits outweighed the risk.

It's the same damned thing here.
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#256881 - 05/12/13 08:06 PM Re: Distractions [Re: Ted Remington]
loganrbt Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/20/08
Posts: 5850
Loc: Massaphuggintwoshirts
You must have been one hellaciously great fire fighter if you think that role compares to sitting at a desk in Tripoli or Foggy Bottom or McLean writing up summaries of field actions.
_________________________
"The white men were as thick and numerous and aimless as grasshoppers, moving always in a hurry but never seeming to get to whatever place it was they were going to." Dee Brown

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#256883 - 05/12/13 09:21 PM Re: Distractions [Re: jgw]
Ted Remington Offline
old hand

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 4890
Argh
_________________________
Take the nacilbupeR pledge: I solemnly swear that I will help back out all Republicans at the next election.

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#256954 - 05/14/13 10:10 PM Re: Distractions [Re: Ted Remington]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 20687
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Quote:
CNN has obtained an e-mail sent by a top aide to President Barack Obama about White House reaction to the deadly attack last September 11 on the U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, that apparently differs from how sources characterized it to two different media organizations.

The actual e-mail from then-Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes appears to show that whomever leaked it did so in a way that made it appear that the White House was primarily concerned with the State Department's desire to remove references and warnings about specific terrorist groups so as to not bring criticism to the department.
CNN
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#256969 - 05/15/13 01:15 AM Re: Distractions [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11735
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Benghazi is the New Whitewater, the new witchhunt.


YOu gotta run with what you got....
in this case not much

As if anyone would have a right to be surprised that bureaucracies try to protect themselves.... doh.

Is this like some surprising new discovery? Like it has never happened before and will never happen again?
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

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