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#261474 - 08/25/13 02:51 PM Our Congress
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I have been giving thought to what just may be the real problem with congress. I know that politics seems to be it but, perhaps not.

>First, the basic system of our government is that LAWS are passed by politicians and BUREAUCRATS regulate those laws with oversight from the congress that passed the laws.

The simple fact is that our elected have hired managers to deal with the details which is, exactly, how it was setup in the beginning. Did you know, for instance, that most bills actually leave gaps for the bureaucrats to do their thing? There is a term for it but I forget <g> What I believe is that the managers are out of control, have little or no oversight, and do what they damned well please whilst those (the elected) who are supposed to be in charge, are actually only in charge of playing politics and helping themselves get reelected. Government, in other words, has been turned over to the bureaucrats to do whatever they think is best. To one extent or another this is the way its always been but, I think, there has been a lot more oversight in the past. For instance, I have watched, now, two hearings on the TSA (cspan - its probably still there). In both hearings those having the hearings raged at the bureaucrats that were testifying. In the first they actually raged about the TSA failing to do backgrounds on most of their employees (amongst many other offenses), in the second hearing (this one was about dishonesty as well as incompetence in the TSA) that didn't even come up. In both hearings those having the hearings closed after first noting what an incredible mess they had on their hands except, in the second hearing, they were not quite as outraged as the first hearing. I have watched others too. In not one single case that I watched did those in charge do a single damned thing to fix problems that THEY are well aware of. In not one single case was there any motions to do anything either. They left that task to the very bureaucrats that were out of control in the first place.

Here is a current glaring example that has just come to light. It has to do with the tax free law that political organizations are using to hide behind that Republicans have made much about. The fact is that the law, written back int he 1920's clearly states that anybody working under this law could not use it to do politics. The bureaucrats decided that was wrong and said that they could (I think, but am not sure, that happened in the 1970's). I believe that the politicians have abdicated their duty to assure us all that those doing the actual work are doing it right. They have created a bureaucracy that is out of control, cannot be fired, invested in their own survival over everything else, and do what they damned well please. Another example is the 15,000+ regulations inserted into Obamacare. There is no functioning politician that would want them to do that as it might cost them their jobs. Inspite of that it actually happened! Everybody seems to be devoted to the politics of the situation. I would humbly suggest that, perhaps, we might be missing something. Our politicians are responsible for the government and they are doing a TERRIBLE job getting it under control. I would add that I firmly believe this has little to do with politics and a LOT to do with 1)incompetence, 2)laziness (they are shutting down congress almost every other week), 3)not enough time to do their jobs and run for office at the same time, and 4)do not understand, exactly, what their job is.

I can remember when Kennedy actually said that one thing he would do, if elected, is do something about the bureaucracy. After 6 months, I think, he publicly gave up on that one.

One last thought. I have not forgotten the congress of cowards of 911. The house shut it down and ran home in terror. When the senate did not they actually raged at the senate for not shutting it down. The house broke a long standing tradition that they would put the nation first and stay in session during national emergencies. I tend to believe that what the beginning of the real mess we see today. A buncha damned self serving cowards, and I think we are living with that right now. They got away with virtually abandoning the nation and put themselves first. Nothing, as far as I am concerned has changed.

If you stop to think about it most of the outrage, on both sides, seem to have to do with the ongoing offensive behavior of the government itself. I suspect that means the offensive behavior of the BUREAUCRATS! (or, "Those dedicated, hard working, civil servants" <g>)


Edited by jgw (08/25/13 03:55 PM)

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#261475 - 08/25/13 04:00 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: jgw]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11674
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: jgw

If you stop to think about it most of the outrage, on both sides, seem to have to do with the ongoing offensive behavior of the government itself. I suspect that means the offensive behavior of the BUREAUCRATS! (or, "Those dedicated, hard working, civil servants" <g>)


No, actually, I had not noticed that.

I mean, I have noticed frustrations working with any large organization.... Cell phone, cable. tech support, banks, etc. The list is endless. There is practically no large organization that has not greatly frustrated me at some point.

Do CEOs and management take advantage of their positions? Hmm

Do large corporations come up with apparently arcane and inflexible rules? Hmm I don't know, maybe some other people have experience?

Do I ever find corporations and service people over charging for their service, or delivering a substandard product? Hmm I don't know, maybe some other people have experience?

But, I do think that maybe your are on to something important. I think we are all extremely confident that if the congress would become more directly involved in running the day to day operations of our government.... everything would get a whole lot better. We all know THAT, right? It is something that would fill us all with confidence and let us sleep soundly at night? ROTFMOL

But I just cannot decide
would I prefer government services to be run by John Boehner, or Nancy Pelosi? They are both such excellent choices to run the government. Pardon me, but I get all teary eyed just imagining the improvements that they would bring.
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

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#261478 - 08/25/13 04:26 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Let me try again. From watching any number of hearings I know that the elected are well aware of the problem and they clearly state that. However, they do not do anything but express their displeasure. NOTHING gets changed! This, incidentally, I believe, is why the outrages continue, irregardless of the party in power. Its not that the parties are so much the same as the managers.

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#261480 - 08/25/13 04:57 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: jgw]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11674
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: jgw
Let me try again. From watching any number of hearings I know that the elected are well aware of the problem and they clearly state that. However, they do not do anything but express their displeasure.



So let's make you and absolute dictator with near celestial powers to change anything you want in the next 5 minutes

What would you change?
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

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#261485 - 08/25/13 05:48 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: Ardy]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: Ardy

So let's make you and absolute dictator with near celestial powers to change anything you want in the next 5 minutes

What would you change?


Change we can believe in? LOL
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"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#261490 - 08/25/13 06:34 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: Ardy]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 4832
Loc: Highlands, Tx
i got to laugh with you

Quote:
Do large corporations come up with apparently arcane and inflexible rules?

you know the answer is obvious ... it provides a reasonable expectation for employees of a seamless work environment ... obviously when humans are involved there will be elements of the crazy working

in a broader context, every single person in modern America has been confronted by big corporations, which according to conservatives are free of government bureaucratic incompetence ... what a hoot

i suspect there is a mathematical formulation which models the phenomenon you and jgw described and i also suspect the probability is high that the models will predict small critical numbers at which point bureaucracy becomes intolerant through incompetence ... the nature of the beast


Edited by rporter314 (08/25/13 06:39 PM)
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ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#261529 - 08/26/13 11:03 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: jgw]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1224
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
I would do TWO things. I would rescind the Clinton rule that allows federal worker unions to lobby on behalf of their 'clients' and 'donate' to campaigns. The second thing I would do is get rid of the law that says federal employees, stuck in grade, should be dealt with. I would also (3rd thing) get rid of the civil service for all unionized employees.

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#261530 - 08/26/13 11:04 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: jgw]
Bored Member Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 112
Well jgw, I have been a fan of your writings for a long time, even though I post very seldom. And it has been many years since I partied harty at the now defunct New Hong Kong Bar & Grille in downtown PA, or sipped coffee at Aggies Coffee Shop to sober up afterwards but, as I recall from my experience living in the Great Northwest, folks were pretty straight forward with their thinking and their words.

Seems you have a good point to be made but you do not define just exactly who these managers and bureaucrats are so, if you don't mind I'll clarify for the record. They are Wall St. Bankers and Corporate executives and/or their lobbyists who actually write the bills (that our elected officials have precisely no clue what is in them) then with a sizable campaign contribution, congress will push the hell out of it through the system, everybody will get on board with a little grease money and/or tagging their own pork barrel project to the bill and voila! you have a new law.

When I lived in Sequim we never minced words for the sake of decency..... If they can't take the truth...... well, you know.

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#261534 - 08/26/13 11:44 PM Re: Our Congress [Re: Bored Member]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6307
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Bored Member
... If they can't take the truth...... well, you know.

Did you feed them cheese afterward?
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"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
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#261539 - 08/27/13 02:01 AM Re: Our Congress [Re: Bored Member]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11674
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: Bored Member


Seems you have a good point to be made but you do not define just exactly who tjhese managers and bureaucrats are so, if you don't mind I'll clarify for the record. They are Wall St. Bankers and Corporate executives and/or their lobbyists who actually write the bills (that our elected officials have precisely no clue what is in them) then with a sizable campaign contribution, congress will push the hell out of it through the system, everybody will get on board with a little grease money and/or tagging their own pork barrel project to the bill and voila! you have a new law.



IMo bored member and jg have a small disagreement

As I understand it, jg is certain that Washington is run by people who make less than 200k per year. While bored member has reached the far fetched conclusion the town is run by people who make 200 million per year.

We might conclude as jg does that nothing ever changes because those people making 200k endure forever.

Or we might conclude as bored member does that there is not much change because the interests of the people making 200 million remain fairly constant.

The panacea of anti government vs the panacea of hatred of job creators


Edited by Ardy (08/27/13 02:04 AM)
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