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#265120 - 11/11/13 05:00 PM Russia owns Istanbul ?
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12005
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
The following link is to a bbc article about the reverberating effects of Wwi
Generally the a Article is about why the Kurds did not wind up with a nation. But in order to get there, there is much included information setting the context of how decisions were made

The world was still of a colonial mindset and also thought in terms of how the victors should logically share in the spoils of the war

So, the Turks were part of the German alliance
Opposed by the English French Russians and Arabs
So the Ottoman Empire was considered spoils of war to be divided

Iraq went to Britain Syria went to France. And if the czar were still around his share would have included Istanbul. The existence of turkey is a side effect of the Russian revolution.

BBC


Edited by Ardy (11/11/13 05:53 PM)
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#265121 - 11/11/13 05:04 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: Ardy]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12005
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
And by the way, the state of Israel was conceptually born at this time as well via the Balfour declaration which for the first time recognized the concept of a Jewish controlled area.
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#265171 - 11/12/13 05:16 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: Ardy]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6310
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
recognized the concept of a Jewish controlled area

legitimized i suppose one would say since the idea of a Jewish state had been around for some time for both as a religious fulfillment and for the antisemitic removal of Jews from europe

Balfour had one solution ... Hitler had another

so Jews started moving to a land which they had not occupied for 1900 years ... and as soon as they got there someone had the idea that they were entitled by God's decree and land patent to all the previous Biblical land which includes not just Palestine but Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.

and the blowback from colonialist policies just keep coming
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#265172 - 11/12/13 05:50 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: rporter314]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12005
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314

And the blowback from colonialist policies just keep coming


As is always the case, the downside risks are obscure and seem like they should be manageable.... While the upside benefits seem certain and compelling.

".... let's invade Iraq, what could go wrong..."
".... let's tap Agngela Merkel's phone, no one but us will ever know..."
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#265176 - 11/12/13 10:04 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: Ardy]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6310
Loc: Highlands, Tx
LOL

I suspect treating folks with honesty and respect goes a long ways to reducing unintended consequences
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without equality there is no liberty

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