Current Topics
History's 'Houdini': What the Critics Are Saying
by Golem
02:55 PM
Israel appropriates massive tract of West Bank land
by rporter314
01:25 PM
Round Table For Week Of August 31st-September 6th, 2014
by california rick
12:38 PM
Tesla Motors Dealing as States Play Factory Poker
by rporter314
12:31 PM
5 current Ferguson officers apart from Brown shooter figure in lawsuits
by NW Ponderer
11:25 AM
Why aren't atheists allowed in Congress?
by logtroll
11:12 AM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
06:55 PM
National Israeli fire on Gaza town raises war crimes claim
by Ardy
06:52 PM
Rams cut Michael Sam, first openly gay player drafted
by Scoutgal
08:55 AM
My Muslim religion has problems that need fixing
by Ardy
08/30/14 08:27 PM
The 10 Biggest Classic Rock Douchebags
by logtroll
08/30/14 07:44 PM
Round Table for the week of August 24-30, 2014
by logtroll
08/30/14 07:37 PM
How Clayton Kershaw compares to the greatest pitchers in history
by Scoutgal
08/30/14 04:07 PM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2014
by Scoutgal
08/30/14 04:02 PM
Gun Tourism Grows in Popularity in Recent Years
by logtroll
08/30/14 01:44 PM
Forum Stats
6003 Members
55 Forums
14300 Topics
247164 Posts

Max Online: 282 @ 05/29/08 01:08 AM
Google Adsense
Topic Options
#265120 - 11/11/13 12:00 PM Russia owns Istanbul ?
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11617
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
The following link is to a bbc article about the reverberating effects of Wwi
Generally the a Article is about why the Kurds did not wind up with a nation. But in order to get there, there is much included information setting the context of how decisions were made

The world was still of a colonial mindset and also thought in terms of how the victors should logically share in the spoils of the war

So, the Turks were part of the German alliance
Opposed by the English French Russians and Arabs
So the Ottoman Empire was considered spoils of war to be divided

Iraq went to Britain Syria went to France. And if the czar were still around his share would have included Istanbul. The existence of turkey is a side effect of the Russian revolution.

BBC


Edited by Ardy (11/11/13 12:53 PM)
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Top
#265121 - 11/11/13 12:04 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: Ardy]
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11617
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
And by the way, the state of Israel was conceptually born at this time as well via the Balfour declaration which for the first time recognized the concept of a Jewish controlled area.
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Top
#265171 - 11/12/13 12:16 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: Ardy]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 4821
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
recognized the concept of a Jewish controlled area

legitimized i suppose one would say since the idea of a Jewish state had been around for some time for both as a religious fulfillment and for the antisemitic removal of Jews from europe

Balfour had one solution ... Hitler had another

so Jews started moving to a land which they had not occupied for 1900 years ... and as soon as they got there someone had the idea that they were entitled by God's decree and land patent to all the previous Biblical land which includes not just Palestine but Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon.

and the blowback from colonialist policies just keep coming
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#265172 - 11/12/13 12:50 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: rporter314]
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11617
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314

And the blowback from colonialist policies just keep coming


As is always the case, the downside risks are obscure and seem like they should be manageable.... While the upside benefits seem certain and compelling.

".... let's invade Iraq, what could go wrong..."
".... let's tap Agngela Merkel's phone, no one but us will ever know..."
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Top
#265176 - 11/12/13 05:04 PM Re: Russia owns Istanbul ? [Re: Ardy]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 4821
Loc: Highlands, Tx
LOL

I suspect treating folks with honesty and respect goes a long ways to reducing unintended consequences
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top

Who's Online
0 registered (), 24 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
xiawei, Marzman, kyleyoung8, Retread, solafeian
6003 Registered Users
A2