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#266216 - 12/08/13 08:34 PM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: NW Ponderer]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9718
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
So, we're going to quibble over a $1 mil expenditure but let slide a $24 billion waste from unneccesarily closing the government? I'm just thinking about perspective.
r

and indeed you forgot perhaps the greatest crime: marie antoinette's michelle obama's arugula eating habits.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
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#266217 - 12/08/13 08:39 PM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: NW Ponderer]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
So, we're going to quibble over a $1 mil expenditure but let slide a $24 billion waste from unneccesarily closing the government? I'm just thinking about perspective.


You might call it that. I call it using a recent Democrat talking point. A faulty one, at that. If you support the state buying a million dollar building block for ostentatious display in a US embassy and consider that a valid use of taxpayer provided funds, just say so, NW. coffee
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#266229 - 12/08/13 11:53 PM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: issodhos]
Scoutgal Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 27583
Loc: CA USA
Originally Posted By: issodhos
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
So, we're going to quibble over a $1 mil expenditure but let slide a $24 billion waste from unneccesarily closing the government? I'm just thinking about perspective.


You might call it that. I call it using a recent Democrat talking point. A faulty one, at that. If you support the state buying a million dollar building block for ostentatious display in a US embassy and consider that a valid use of taxpayer provided funds, just say so, NW. coffee


But it's not a faulty point, Iss. It shows that the GOP is all about nit-picking, but will happily waste larger anounts to try and get it's way. And both pale in comparison to the amounts(unfunded at that) wasted on two wars started by a Republican administration.

So it's not that NWP approves of the $1 million expenditure, it's that he dislikes the blatant hypocrisy shown by you about this amount and the complete dismissal of those complaints by Democratic opposition. But I am sure that you stir the other pot on more Conservative sites. wink
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#266235 - 12/09/13 01:07 AM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: issodhos]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
I do. Thread finished now?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#266236 - 12/09/13 02:22 AM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: Scoutgal]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: Scoutgal

But it's not a faulty point, Iss. It shows that the GOP is all about nit-picking, but will happily waste larger anounts to try and get it's way. And both pale in comparison to the amounts(unfunded at that) wasted on two wars started by a Republican administration.

So it's not that NWP approves of the $1 million expenditure, it's that he dislikes the blatant hypocrisy shown by you about this amount and the complete dismissal of those complaints by Democratic opposition. But I am sure that you stir the other pot on more Conservative sites. wink


You are incorrect. For your personal insult to have validity, I would have had to have supported what is referred to as the 'government shutdown' and not been critical in the past of the squandering of taxpayer money under Republican administrations and congresses. That is not the case.

The purpose of this post was to show an example of how taxpayer money is squandered by the government. This kind of squandering is done on a daily basis, and is done year after year. For it to continue during the economic difficulties we have been and are going through is wrong. If you and othere wish to support it simply because it is happening under a Democratic Party administration, then I will simply say that I am not surprised.

As to recent BS talking point about the 'shutdown' costing the economy 25 billion bucks, well, that ain't the way economies work. Bastiat would have suggested looking to the unseen. Even a bekighted Keynesian (well, some of them, anyway) knows that there is no such thing as a static state with economies.
Not sure why this fellow got it pretty close to the mark, but that he did:

There Will Be No $24B Economic Loss From the Government Shutdown
Quote:
The news has been full of an estimate by Standard & Poor’s that the U.S. economy suffered a loss of $24 billion due to the government shutdown. Interestingly, the reports contain few if any details of where those losses came from and the Standard & Poor’s website does not seem to have any report backing up the figure either. I have found some of the suggested losses and they are all untrue. In reality, there will be no economic loss to the economy from the government shutdown.

Purported losses include lost wages by federal employees and contractors, the value of lost government services, and lost travel spending. Some of these losses did actually happen, but any losses in one part of the economy will be offset by gains somewhere else.

There you go, not to mock George Bush, but mission accomplished. You and NW have thread redirected to the recent 'government shutdown'. Enjoy. coffee


Edited by issodhos (12/09/13 05:33 PM)
Edit Reason: formatting
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"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#266239 - 12/09/13 02:36 AM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: issodhos]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8912
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Quote:
Some of these losses did actually happen, but any losses in one part of the economy will be offset by gains somewhere else.

Cool! Are you in charge of selectively applying this morsel of ironclad logic? Or are you just hoping that no one will notice your little trick?
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#266250 - 12/09/13 05:40 PM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Quote:
Some of these losses did actually happen, but any losses in one part of the economy will be offset by gains somewhere else.

Cool! Are you in charge of selectively applying this morsel of ironclad logic? Or are you just hoping that no one will notice your little trick?
It's magical economic thinking, log, you're not supposed to understand it.

Apparently in Mr. Dorfman's world, recessions don't happen, economies cannot be stimulated, and the economy is a zero-sum game. Of course, his logic is only about 1mm thick. (I suspect his skull is much thicker.) It is the same logic that is applied to the "checkbook" theory of government finance. In other words, it doesn't work that way in the real world. Now, there are elements of his approach that may be true, but there are significant holes (more sieve-like than steel-trappish) in his analysis, not the least of which is that he doesn't know what the basis of the S&P analysis is. But, he approaches the world from "a generally free market, libertarian perspective," with "a particular focus on government policies that strive to redistribute income or wealth either openly or in indirect ways."
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#266251 - 12/09/13 05:50 PM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: logtroll]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Quote:
Some of these losses did actually happen, but any losses in one part of the economy will be offset by gains somewhere else.

Cool! Are you in charge of selectively applying this morsel of ironclad logic? Or are you just hoping that no one will notice your little trick?


Let me see if I can further simplify it, 'troll. I lose a dollar. You find it. You spend it. Has the general economy suffered a 1 dollar loss?
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#266252 - 12/09/13 05:53 PM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: issodhos]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16372
Originally Posted By: =Issodhos
You and NW have thread redirected to the recent 'government shutdown'.
Not at all, Iss. My point was just "penny wise, pound foolish." Or, just foolish.

It was good to provide the point that you were trying to address:
Quote:
The purpose of this post was to show an example of how taxpayer money is squandered by the government. This kind of squandering is done on a daily basis, and is done year after year. For it to continue during the economic difficulties we have been and are going through is wrong.
Now, there is a counterpoint to this, and that is, defining "squander." It appears that "squander" means "spending which I disapprove of." I would agree that much squandering has gone on, and continues to go on (as in millions spent on re-re-reinquiring about Benghazi, on re-re-re-re-voting to defund Obamacare, engaging in unnecessary and wasteful warfare, etc., ad infinitum). I suppose a simpler inquiry would be: what government spending would you approve? I suspect that would be a very short conversation.


Edited by NW Ponderer (12/09/13 06:59 PM)
Edit Reason: Add elucidating comments
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#266253 - 12/09/13 06:48 PM Re: State Department Buys Million Dollar Granite Sculpture from Irish-Born Artist [Re: NW Ponderer]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: =Issodhos
You and NW have thread redirected to the recent 'government shutdown'.
Not at all, Iss. My point was just "penny wise, pound foolish." Or, just foolish.


In logic, that is known as an ambiguous statement, NW. Funny though. :-)
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"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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