Current Topics
Democratic National Convention - Philadelphia
by rporter314
Campaign 2016
by Ezekiel
04:31 PM
Trump's Trumpet
by Ezekiel
03:58 PM
Oil Lobby Paid Wa Post and Atlantic to Host Climate-Change Deniers at RNC
by Ezekiel
09:40 AM
I Agree with Bernie
by Ezekiel
06:38 AM
The Clinton-Kaine Ticket
by pondering_it_all
12:08 AM
Republican National Convention - Cleveland, OH
by Spag-hetti
07/23/16 11:09 AM
Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces?
by Ezekiel
07/22/16 12:58 PM
A Toast to Those Who are Gone
by Ezekiel
07/22/16 11:46 AM
Murdochs to fire Roger Ailes?
by Ezekiel
07/21/16 07:40 PM
BREAKING: Star Trek XIII to be titled ‘Star Trek Beyond’
by Golem
07/21/16 04:38 PM
It's Official, Hillary Clinton is Running Against Putin
by Ezekiel
07/21/16 04:37 PM
Coup in Turkey
by Jeffery J. Haas
07/21/16 02:37 PM
Marcus Bachmann Discriminated Against by Gays
by Spag-hetti
07/21/16 11:55 AM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Ken Condon
07/21/16 01:03 AM
Forum Stats
6161 Members
56 Forums
15316 Topics
263748 Posts

Max Online: 282 @ 05/29/08 01:08 AM
Google Adsense
Topic Options
#267035 - 12/29/13 09:31 AM Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense?
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 7703
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Was SYG not applicable? (he did claim that TM was endangering his life so he shot him.)

He got off on self-defense, so what use was the SYG law?

His behavior was arguably "not responsible" in that he pursued TM against the advice of the police dispatcher; so neither SYG, nor the self-defense law proved to be stimulus for acting responsibly. "Duty to retreat" does appear to be a stimulus for acting responsibly, in the form of acting to de-escalate rather that escalate a situation. "Standing your ground", if there is an opportunity to retreat, is a form of escalation... is SYG really just an expression of testosterone, substituting a gun for a private piece of male anatomy?

Was George Z "defending his castle" (mobile version, no duty to retreat, not even any duty to not pursue...)?

I find this thing of finding excuses for shooting unarmed people to be very difficult to understand. (That was an opening for Isso to find agreement with my self-assessment of low intelligence. However, I am smart enough to not be packing' and looking for ground to stand on with me trusty shooting' iron.)
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#267036 - 12/29/13 10:04 AM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 38501
Loc: Portland, Oregon

It is true that GZ did not use SYG in his defense. However, the Judge gave the jury instructions to use SYG and that's how GZ got off.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#267052 - 12/29/13 04:25 PM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: logtroll]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Was SYG not applicable? (he did claim that TM was endangering his life so he shot him.)

He got off on self-defense, so what use was the SYG law?


In the case of Zimmerman, SYG was irrelevant because he was pinned to the ground and in no position to flee. Since "stand your ground" provides protection against any duty to retreat when certain conditions are met, and retreat was not possible according to the evidence presented, a standard self-defense strategy was more than adequate. In cases where retreat was possible, but not taken, it would then be useful to the defense -- or, so I would think.
Yours,
Issodhos
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

Top
#267053 - 12/29/13 04:37 PM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: pdx rick]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: california rick

It is true that GZ did not use SYG in his defense. However, the Judge gave the jury instructions to use SYG and that's how GZ got off.


As I understand it, rick, that is a part of the standard instructions given to jurors in self-defense cases in Florida. They are free to determine it's applicability, as well as the applicability of a number of other instructions, drawing their ultimate conclusion based on the evidence presented in the trial. At no point before or during the trial was "Stand Your Ground" used by the defense as a defense or as a basis and support for invoking a demand for immunity. He walked based on plain ol' self-defense law.
Yours,
Issodhos
_________________________
"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

Top
#267062 - 12/29/13 07:27 PM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: issodhos]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 7703
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
So what reason is there for the SYG law? (I'm not going to ask more than ten times...)
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top

Who's Online
0 registered (), 51 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
alehyhyt, AesteSt, Jim McKernon, Constitutionalis, RareBear5419
6161 Registered Users
A2