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#267035 - 12/29/13 09:31 AM Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense?
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6342
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Was SYG not applicable? (he did claim that TM was endangering his life so he shot him.)

He got off on self-defense, so what use was the SYG law?

His behavior was arguably "not responsible" in that he pursued TM against the advice of the police dispatcher; so neither SYG, nor the self-defense law proved to be stimulus for acting responsibly. "Duty to retreat" does appear to be a stimulus for acting responsibly, in the form of acting to de-escalate rather that escalate a situation. "Standing your ground", if there is an opportunity to retreat, is a form of escalation... is SYG really just an expression of testosterone, substituting a gun for a private piece of male anatomy?

Was George Z "defending his castle" (mobile version, no duty to retreat, not even any duty to not pursue...)?

I find this thing of finding excuses for shooting unarmed people to be very difficult to understand. (That was an opening for Isso to find agreement with my self-assessment of low intelligence. However, I am smart enough to not be packing' and looking for ground to stand on with me trusty shooting' iron.)
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#267036 - 12/29/13 10:04 AM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: logtroll]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 36223
Loc: Portland, Oregon

It is true that GZ did not use SYG in his defense. However, the Judge gave the jury instructions to use SYG and that's how GZ got off.
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#267052 - 12/29/13 04:25 PM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: logtroll]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Was SYG not applicable? (he did claim that TM was endangering his life so he shot him.)

He got off on self-defense, so what use was the SYG law?


In the case of Zimmerman, SYG was irrelevant because he was pinned to the ground and in no position to flee. Since "stand your ground" provides protection against any duty to retreat when certain conditions are met, and retreat was not possible according to the evidence presented, a standard self-defense strategy was more than adequate. In cases where retreat was possible, but not taken, it would then be useful to the defense -- or, so I would think.
Yours,
Issodhos
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#267053 - 12/29/13 04:37 PM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: california rick]
issodhos Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 12581
Originally Posted By: california rick

It is true that GZ did not use SYG in his defense. However, the Judge gave the jury instructions to use SYG and that's how GZ got off.


As I understand it, rick, that is a part of the standard instructions given to jurors in self-defense cases in Florida. They are free to determine it's applicability, as well as the applicability of a number of other instructions, drawing their ultimate conclusion based on the evidence presented in the trial. At no point before or during the trial was "Stand Your Ground" used by the defense as a defense or as a basis and support for invoking a demand for immunity. He walked based on plain ol' self-defense law.
Yours,
Issodhos
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"When all has been said that can be said, and all has been done that can be done, there will be poetry";-) -- Issodhos

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#267062 - 12/29/13 07:27 PM Re: Why didn't George Z stick with a SYG defense? [Re: issodhos]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6342
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
So what reason is there for the SYG law? (I'm not going to ask more than ten times...)
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