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#268087 - 02/02/14 07:52 PM Woody Allen
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12005
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
You have probably heard the allegations of child abuse concerning woody Allen

His adopted daughter has written a public letter detailing the abuse and questioning. The golden globe award Allen was given

there is no certainty of exactly what is true. But I am inclined to believe the daughter.

So then the question is whether Allen should be shunned, or whether his artistic accomplishments should stand on their own regardless of the circa ranches of his private life?
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"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#268088 - 02/02/14 09:23 PM Re: Woody Allen [Re: Ardy]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
For me his artistic achievements will stand on their own. There aren't many people in the world who are not defective in some way, and the artistic and famous seem to be especially well-endowed (maybe we just know more about them?).

It's not as though his pedophilia was a career enhancing drug that gave him a competitive advantage.

He could certainly be shunned from here on out, or thrown in prison, or molested in some way that is not to his liking. But to pretend his work didn't happen, intended as punishment, well... that's a bit like the vigilantes taking the law into their own hands.

Let shehe who is without sin begin the retroactive unrelated stone-throwage.
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#268089 - 02/02/14 10:22 PM Re: Woody Allen [Re: logtroll]
Scoutgal Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 27583
Loc: CA USA
As to Woody Allen's artistic talent, it is there. But if he commits criminal acts, that means he should be arrested tried and if convicted, thrown in jail-just like everyone else who is convicted. Just because he has talent, it does not excuse or allow criminal behavior. Child abuse is a crime. If it can be proved, then Woody Allen should suffer the consequences of his actions.
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#268090 - 02/02/14 11:13 PM Re: Woody Allen [Re: Scoutgal]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7565
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
If it can be proved


That's the sad thing in this case: Nothing can be proved, now or back in 1992 when the accusation was first made. Dylan Farrow (or her mother, Mia) actually made this claim many years ago, and prosecutors decided there just was not enough evidence to pursue it. The allegation only was made after Allen's relationship with Soon-Yi was made public, so there was some speculation that Mia conconcted it because Woody couldn't be charged with any crime (other than really bad manners) for the Soon-Yi stuff.

I have no idea if it's true or not, and even if it's not it is entirely possible that Dylan was convinced by her mother that it happened. Kids often have to side with one parent or the other during a divorce, and accept that parent's version of events.

You tell a story enough times, and the memories of the telling are easy to confuse with memories of actual events. And you don't have to be 7 years old for this "memory implantation" to occur: Adult eye-witnesses testifying under oath often are absolutely convinced about things they "observed" that can be proved couldn't have happened. That's one reason why detectives try to get witness statements ASAP after some crime, before they have embellished their story in telling it many times.

Just from watching Allen's movies, I rather doubt he would have any interest in molesting a 7 year-old. He seems much more preoccupied with older teens (like Soon-Yi was at that very time), and I think true pedophiles who are attracted to pre-pubescent girls are not interested in 19 year olds.

OTOH, Paris is nice and I hear Roman Polanski is looking for a roommate. tonbricks

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#268095 - 02/03/14 04:22 AM Re: Woody Allen [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12005
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all

Just from watching Allen's movies, I rather doubt he would have any interest in molesting a 7 year-old. He seems much more preoccupied with older teens (like Soon-Yi was at that very time), and I think true pedophiles who are attracted to pre-pubescent girls are not interested in 19 year olds.


i personally feel convinced by Dylan's letter.

but in case one is curious for corroboration, you could reference this vanity fair article from 20 years ago vanity fair link

even so that leaves the question whether artistic accomplishment is separable from personal moral failures
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#268185 - 02/06/14 12:51 PM Re: Woody Allen [Re: Ardy]
keysersoze Offline
journeyman

Registered: 12/01/11
Posts: 884
He's as innocent as OJ and Polanski.
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#268202 - 02/06/14 06:49 PM Re: Woody Allen [Re: Ardy]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ardy
...even so that leaves the question whether artistic accomplishment is separable from personal moral failures

Doesn't look like anyone else is gonna bite, Ardy. What's your take on it?
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#268205 - 02/06/14 08:30 PM Re: Woody Allen [Re: logtroll]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12005
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: Ardy
...even so that leaves the question whether artistic accomplishment is separable from personal moral failures

Doesn't look like anyone else is gonna bite, Ardy. What's your take on it?


I really don't know

From one perspective, it think it is important to not patronize evil.... like apartheid South Africa.

And I can see that it would be infuriating to be a "victim" and to see your victimizer being lionized by society (if that is what happened in this case.

OTOH none of us have nearly enough information to judge this situation. And even if we did, I think it is problematic to discard everything a person does based upon a moral failing in on part of his life. Is Phillip Seymour Hoffman a lesser actor because he died in such a pathetic way? Is Wagner a lesser artist because the Nazi's idealized him? Is Bill Clinton a worthless piece of crap because of his uncontrolled libido?

FOr me personally, I have not seen a Woody allen movie in ages... and do not much care whether people call him a great artist or not.

So I guess I also have no answer. Except that I think we are far too quick to judge the foibles of others.

Consider a different problem.... racism. On this forum and elsewhere you will see racists unmercifully vilified, as if they were little different that a lynch mob of concentration camp guards. But I have encountered many people who have made shockingly racist comments. And yet these people are often extremely nice people by virtually any other means of assessment.

What does it all mean, Hmm
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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