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#270190 - 04/23/14 03:26 PM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: pdx rick]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12007
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
With all respect loggy
There is another side to the picture

Being able to present an intimidating logical case does inherently make a person right when they dispute with a person less talented at this form of discussion.

I think there are some valid issues hidden among conservative concerns. Unfortunately these concerns tend to be mixed with large quantities of horse shut Which make people like you and me want to treat it all as hs.

Back to mr bundy and Blm

I wonder if tiger could have been a less swat based approach
Suppose Blm only had clerks and lawyers to work with
Was thee an other path

Could they put a lien on his ranch
Or use the irs
Or freeze his bank accounts
Or get a local judge to issue a restraining order
And have local police enforce it

If local Leo needed help
They could call on federal support
And the whole situation would look differently
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#270194 - 04/23/14 07:14 PM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Ardy]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9441
Loc: One of the Mexicos
There you go, trying to steer this into an actual discussion...

I had thought about the BLM's approach, which I was interested in discussing after we softened up the wildly incorrect scenario that they "started" it, and they had no business being there at all.

First of all, removing the cows from the range was, from the BLM's point of view, the most important part of the action, as the cows are continuing to cause resource damage. Collecting back fees and fines was secondary to that. I make that conclusion because of some 30 years of interaction with federal land management agencies, backed up by the fact that it is their stated goal. Mitigating resource damage was their reason for reducing stocking levels back in 1993. Bundy would not comply.

If their primary motivation was getting paid and/or punishing the Bundys, I believe they would have already been pursuing the other options you mentioned for the collection of money owed.

Bringing guns to a cow roundup is normal. Bringing a law enforcement contingent to a controversial cow roundup, where there had been a history of inflammatory talk and threats, and declarations of resistance, is normal. Unfortunately, law enforcement bringing high tech weapons, including tasters and auto- or semi-automatic weapons has become normal, in large part because criminals often have significant firepower. The BLM also does drug interdiction work in remote areas.

It is my opinion that if only the Bundys and a few locals had been present, that the whole thing would have gone off rather quietly. I don't think the BLM expected hundreds of maliciamen to show up ready to start a war, they expected to do a bit of protester management. I don't believe they would have characterized their approach as SWAT based, that's the rather massaged portrayal of things intentionally choreographed by some of the activists (did you see the early video clip where a guy with a camera was trying to get a woman with dirty knees to call 911?) The huge amount of misinformation surrounding the incident is a product of digital cameras, a pretty well-organized propaganda campaign, and the power of the intertubes.

The BLM did back away when it was obvious enough that they wouldn't be able to round up the cows without there being an insane escalation of violence. I suppose the government (I believe I heard that the issue has been given to the Dept of Justice for the next steps) will take deliberate steps to "secure the area" for a future cow roundup by first rounding up a bunch of the maliciamen in separate actions, which will probably involve many other law enforcement agencies.

That may, or not, discourage another wave of anti-gummit misfits from spending too much personal time and money for a misguided "cause" that could likely get them arrested. There'll be a lot of noise next time, but probably much less action.
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You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#270205 - 04/24/14 05:17 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
Mister Bundy, the gentleman rancher at the crux of a potential range war, has views on just about everything, including "NEGROES".

A Defiant Rancher Savors the Audience That Rallied to His Side

Quote:
"And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”


"Yaassuuh!!! We wuz so much bettah off as slabes Massa Bundy!" tinfoilhat




Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (04/24/14 05:22 AM)
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#270206 - 04/24/14 05:29 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#270208 - 04/24/14 05:47 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41804
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Mister Bundy, the gentleman rancher at the crux of a potential range war, has views on just about everything, including "NEGROES".

Of course he does, he's a T-Bagger isn't he?
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Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#270210 - 04/24/14 06:05 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline

It's the Despair Quotient!
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 14298
Loc: Whittier, California
Bundy is now the real life version of Blazing Saddles! ROTFMOL
Once again the snakes are eating their own tails and committing suicide.


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (04/24/14 06:07 AM)
_________________________
The only people pushing the Athenian Straw Man Nonexistent Threat of Slippery Slope Windyfoggery (ASMNSSW) RE DEMOCRACY are people who have a misunderstanding/problem or hatred of democracy. (See AUTHORITARIANS)

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#270213 - 04/24/14 06:23 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41804
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Bundy is now the real life version of Blazing Saddles! ROTFMOL
Once again the snakes are eating their own tails and committing suicide.

The snakes eat their ilk daily on some Wingnut sites. It's hilarious.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#270214 - 04/24/14 12:56 PM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: pdx rick]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9441
Loc: One of the Mexicos
So classic that a guy who has spent his entire life heavily subsidized by the federal government should think he is so superior to a whole class of "welfare" people he knows practically nothing about.

And it's funny how a little bit of notoriety makes a person feel like their opinions matter more.

The instantaneous backing away from this sad character by the Righter politicians also indicates how shallow support was for his "principled" stand. Looks like he may have single-handedly defused the next roundup confrontation.
_________________________
You can’t solve a problem without first understanding what the problem is.

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#270216 - 04/24/14 01:48 PM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Scoutgal Offline
Administrator
Bionic Scribe

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 27583
Loc: CA USA
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas


So the next episode of Republican CYA begins! rolleyes
_________________________
milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.





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#270247 - 04/25/14 12:06 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Scoutgal]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9718
Loc: Ireland
ahahahahahahahaha

Paging Mr Hannity, Paging Mr Hannity
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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