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#270157 - 04/22/14 11:34 PM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Scoutgal]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12007
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: Scoutgal
Local TV Station Sheds Doubt On Bundy's Claims About His Family Ranch

Quote:
Bundy said that his rights predate the formation of the Bureau of Land Management, and he has refused to pay more than $1 million in cattle grazing fees.

"My rights are before the BLM even existed, but my rights are created by beneficial use. Beneficial use means we created the forage and the water from the time the very first pioneers come here," Bundy said.

But court records obtained by KLAS indicated the family's cattle didn't begin grazing the land until 1954. The Bureau of Land Management was created in 1946 (the same year Cliven Bundy was born.)


Note to self
Research why specious arguments are so commonly accepted
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#270158 - 04/22/14 11:38 PM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Ma_Republican]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6777
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
The Federal government is supposed to be a governing body, not a landlord

had you been alive in 1848 you could have brought up the notion, but as the idea of an interior department had been around since 1789, you would have lost the argument.

Quote:
The real question is why are all of these agencies armed to begin with?

specifically in this case Bundy threatened to use force if the government pursued their court mandate .... do you show up to a gun fight with harsh language???

Quote:
I have a problem with the Federal government ...

i purposefully cherry picked the quote as i believe this is what you really meant
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#270162 - 04/23/14 12:36 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Ma_Republican]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Ma_Republican
So, you have no problem with the government arming all of their management departments? How about we arm the OMB? They have, after all, management in their name. Or how about we arm EPA, they have an important job to do when they plant evidence. The real question is why are all of these agencies armed to begin with?

Liar, liar, pants on fire!

Why do you even speculate that this is a fact.

I gave you a link to the BLM Law Enforcement page. Are you saying that the activities described therein are not legitimate law enforcement activities? So the BLM should not have a law enforcement contingent? (Hint: one of the things they do is catch wetbacks, don't you want them to catch wetbacks?) All of the things they do are LAW ENFORCEMENT!! Are you against law enforcement? (Hint: if you are not for law enforcement, you may be a criminal. You may be convicted of a felony if you do something like threaten law enforcement officials with guns in an attempt to prevent them from enforcing the law, then you won't be able to vote, which is the ultimate political act, which you profess to love so much (politics, that is) so you better not mess with law enforcement, or you may become impotent to legitimately act against your government that you hate so very, very much because it enforces the laws).

Are you playing stupid? It's not really a smart move to play stupid. People come down on you harder if you play stupid than if that's what you really are.

The Bundy Bunch are really stupid. And mean. And felons (soon to be convicted for sedition).
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#270166 - 04/23/14 01:04 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: logtroll]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1662
Loc: Middle, USA
Quote:
Logtroll explained:
I gave you a link to the BLM Law Enforcement page. Are you saying that the activities described therein are not legitimate law enforcement activities? So the BLM should not have a law enforcement contingent? (Hint: one of the things they do is catch wetbacks, don't you want them to catch wetbacks?) All of the things they do are LAW ENFORCEMENT!! Are you against law enforcement? (Hint: if you are not for law enforcement, you may be a criminal. You may be convicted of a felony if you do something like threaten law enforcement officials with guns in an attempt to prevent them from enforcing the law, then you won't be able to vote, which is the ultimate political act, which you profess to love so much (politics, that is) so you better not mess with law enforcement, or you may become impotent to legitimately act against your government that you hate so very, very much because it enforces the laws).


Nice explanation/rant. ThumbsUp

If you don't like law enforcement, try getting help from some militia types ... or your neighborhood skinheads. Kind of depends on how really really right you feel.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#270169 - 04/23/14 01:34 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Scoutgal]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: Scoutgal
Local TV Station Sheds Doubt On Bundy's Claims About His Family Ranch

Quote:
Bundy said that his rights predate the formation of the Bureau of Land Management, and he has refused to pay more than $1 million in cattle grazing fees.

"My rights are before the BLM even existed, but my rights are created by beneficial use. Beneficial use means we created the forage and the water from the time the very first pioneers come here," Bundy said.

But court records obtained by KLAS indicated the family's cattle didn't begin grazing the land until 1954. The Bureau of Land Management was created in 1946 (the same year Cliven Bundy was born.)

The whole History of the BLM
Quote:
The BLM's pure roots go back to the Land Ordinance of 1785 and the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. These laws provided for the survey and settlement of the lands that the original 13 colonies ceded to the federal government after the American Revolution. As additional lands were acquired by the United States from Spain, France and other countries, the United States Congress directed that they be explored, surveyed, and made available for settlement. In 1812, Congress established the General Land Office in the Department of the Treasury to oversee the disposition of these federal lands. As the 19th century progressed and the nation's land base expanded further west, Congress encouraged the settlement of the land by enacting a wide variety of laws, including the Homestead Act and the Mining Law of 1872.

These statutes served one of the major policy goals of the young country—settlement of the Western territories. With the exception of the Mining Law of 1872 and the Desert Land Act of 1877 (which was amended), all have since been repealed or superseded by other statutes.

Maybe the KochBros teabaggers can't read?

The bold emphasis is mine, to maybe crack MaR's fantasy that the States are Soopreeme! Even the frikkin' original 13 colonies ceded land to the federal gummit.
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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#270171 - 04/23/14 02:09 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: Ardy]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41548
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Ardy
Note to self
Research why specious arguments are so commonly accepted

Wingnuts accept any bull that Faux News feeds them.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#270178 - 04/23/14 05:22 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 16970
I admit, I dislike arguments of convenience. Why is it inappropriate for the federal government to own property, exactly? How is it that a State government is more qualified to administer public lands? That certainly has not been the case... well, ever. Of course, logic has no application to this situation, since it has to be a "political" decision. If there were a Republican in charge, the "quality" of the decision-making would be entirely different.

Consider for a moment: the BLM offsets the cost of administration of government by leasing public lands, relieving the burden from the taxpayer, and reducing the deficit. That would seem to be a plus for a "conservative." Yet, it isn't when inconvenient for another "conservative" argument - that government is always bad and not to be trusted. Instead, a spurious argumet is made that "civilians with guns" are more trustworthy than trained law enforcement personnel. I can provide significant evidence to the contrary - but I don't need to. We can look at their behavior in this situation. When armed thugs threatened them, they did not rise to the provocation. Ah, but yet a different spurious argument is made: that they created the confrontation.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#270181 - 04/23/14 06:13 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
CHB-OG

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41548
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Ah, but yet a different spurious argument is made: that they created the confrontation.

...and the other more spurious argument is made: The BLM ran like chickens.

I hate when the Wingnuts say that! mad
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#270183 - 04/23/14 06:44 AM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: pdx rick]
Ardy Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 12007
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
When the Blm returns. They should do it the right way. Put women and children in front And force the militia to shoot them

Maybe the women in front of the militia and the women in front of the Blm could have a cat fight to settle things
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#270187 - 04/23/14 02:04 PM Re: Militias ‘mobilizing’ to support embattled Clark County rancher [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 9282
Loc: One of the Mexicos
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I admit, I dislike arguments of convenience.

I wonder if folks who do this are aware of their disingenuousness, or if their mental functions are truly in such a state of befuggalty?

Is the GOP Rule of the Opposite Thang applied strategically, or is it simply a sign of a low mental-horsepower-vehicle attempting to drive up the Hill of Logic?

Or is there something else at work when a ROTter avoids respect for facts and researched argument in a discussion?
_________________________
An entrepreneur sees problems as the seeds of opportunity.

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