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#270308 - 04/26/14 10:15 PM Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke
SJGulitti Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 417
Ostensibly, Cliven Bundy’s cattle grazing controversy could not have come at a more opportune time for conservatives. The perceived momentum heading into November’s elections had begun to lose some of its steam prompting one Republican strategist to say this week “Republicans may have peaked too early.” Senate races in Arkansas, Louisiana and North Carolina where Democrats were supposed to be in peril seemed to be much closer then had been previously imagined. The ongoing failure on the part of Congressional Republicans to move forward on immigration once again took center stage and the now open warfare within the G.O.P. between the establishment and the Tea Party continues apace. More importantly the monotonous and hackneyed droning on about Obamacare has begun to lose some of it’s resonance in the wake of three facts. One is that 8 million people have signed up for health insurance and secondly, recent polling shows, that while many Americans are unhappy with the Affordable Care Act most of the dissatisfied want it repaired not repealed and replaced. Finally, even if a majority of the disgruntled favored repeal, the Republican Party, after eight years in opposition has yet to construct a health care alternative. Enter the Cliven Bundy cattle controversy into which conservative commentators and pundits of all stripes piled onto with almost reckless abandon, seeking to capitalize on the conservative base’s anti-government fervor only to discover, a few days on, two inconvenient facts that would come back to undermine their latest conservative celebrity du jour.

First, in spite of all of the efforts on the part of conservative commentators to force fit Bundy’s transgressions into a “government overreach” template the fact stands that Bundy has been using federal land for his private cattle on the taxpayer’s dime. A perusal of commentary on that reliably anti-government website TownHall.com, among others, reveals the type of jury-rigged logic employed in much of the commentary posted in support of Bundy. Many would argue that while Bundy might be technically at fault for not paying the Federal government grazing fees his transgression was trumped by his “moral” case against government overreach. Then there is the far-fetched folly of an idea, propagated by Bundy himself, that because he personally does not recognize the existence of the Federal government, that that somehow really matters or changes anything in the real world. Some would see the unfolding incident as the beginning of a new anti-government crusade or at the very least, a revival of the last one.

The inherent fault of the aforementioned “logic” became all the more apparent when Tucker Carlson, host of Fox and Friends, Editor in Chief of the conservative Daily Caller and no friend of the Obama administration, pointed out that Bundy’s actions are neither legal or ethical. Quoting Carlson “…the Bundys don’t have a legal case that I can see, to be totally honest about it. And this is public land. This is not land that they own. And if you are going to use public land for profit, you have to pay for it, and they haven’t. And so the bottom line, and I think this is something conservatives ought to remember, if you want a ranch without any impediment at all, you have to buy your own ranch. That is the essence, that is the core principle behind private property which undergirds conservatism. So I have a lot of sympathy for the Bundys. I think they were completely mistreated by the federal government. But I still think it’s important to point out that this land does not belong to them, and that’s not a minor distinction. It’s the essence of private property.” Carlson’s opinion was seconded by his fellow conservative commentators Juan Williams and A.B. Stoddard, both Fox News regulars and bona fide conservative commentators in their own right. Another important point that undermines the anti-government claque supporting Bundy was made by Timothy Egan in “Deadbeat on the Range” where he pointed out that: “Ranching is hard work. Drought and market swings make it a tough go in many years. That’s all the more reason to praise the 18,000 or so ranchers who pay their grazing fees on time and don’t go whining to Fox or summoning a herd of armed thugs when they renege on their contract. You can understand why the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association wants no part of Bundy.”

While conservative commentators wrestled with the flawed logic of trying to justify Bundy’s trampling of cherished conservative principles with their own penchant to vilify the Federal government no matter the particulars of this case, it was Bundy himself who made his new found friends look all the more foolish by revealing his own intemperate views on race. Bundy’s ill concieved remarks are now well known and need not be repeated here. That said, owing to the ongoing problems that the conservative movement has with the minority communities, Bundy’s comments can only do more harm than good. And herein lies the great irony of Cliven Bundy and his relationship to the conservative movement. For one thing not only has he acted in a manner that is contridictory to the conservative principals and beliefs, he has acted as the very type of “moocher” that conservatives have often attributed to those who occupy government funded housing projects or receive publicly funded assistance. I can only wonder what one of the columnists on TownHall.com, Dr. Ben Carson, must now think having written a post in support of Cliven Bundy. For you see Dr. Carson is an African-American, a retired neurosurgeon, and according to Cliven Bundy, he would be better suited to picking cotton than practicing medicine or opining about politics. Oh and just one more point, why out of some 18,000 plus ranchers does Bundy need a de facto federal handout? Don’t conservatives believe in a competitive market place? If so, why should Bundy get a free ride while his competitors pay their grazing fees without engineering an armed protest? If Bundy can’t profitably run a cattle business without a de facto public handout shouldn’t he be allowed to fail as part of the back and forth of an economically competitive ranching sector?

By Wednesday April 23 many if not most of the conservative commentators and pundits who had rallied to Bundy’s side where fleeing from him en masse or trying to convince themselves and the rest of the viewing public that, in spite of all the contradictions and flawed logic surrounding their previous defense of Bundy, that somehow there was something redeeming in his predicament and how it related to the conservative agenda. Needless to say, Cliven Bundy blew his fifteen minutes of fame and he will most certainly take his place in the pantheon of conservatives who have done exactly the same thing. No, he will not occupy a place as prominent as Sarah Palin, Sharron Angle, Todd Akin, Christine O’Donnell or Richard Mourdock but he will be in good company just the same. The sooner that Bundy can slip into irrelevance the better it will be for conservatives. In reality it is the best outcome that can now be expected unless you see political damage control as a worthwhile endeavor. In addition, while for conservatives Bundy has been revealed to be nothing more than a pig in a poke, for Democrats Bundy could be just another one of those gifts that keeps on giving. If the Democrats were smart, they would turn Cliven Bundy into a tar baby, no pun intended that they could keep dragging out as needed to which Republicans will be forced to explain away in hope of placating a body politic that already rates the G.O.P. lower than either the Democrats or Barack Obama.

Steven J. Gulitti

26 April 2014

Sources:

Pushing Back Against the Federal Leviathan; http://townhall.com/columnists/robertkni...iathan-n1827227

BLM – Bundy Confrontation Ignites new “Sagebrush Rebellion; http://townhall.com/columnists/bobbarr/2...ellion-n1828100

When Government Looks More Like Foe Than Friend; http://townhall.com/columnists/drbencars...friend-n1827899

Why Bundy Ranch Is Just the Beginning; http://townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/2014/04/23/why-bundy-ranch-is-just-the-beginning-n1828250

Tucker Carlson – FNC Special Report: Reaction to Bundy land dispute with federal government; http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/special-re...eral-government

Tamara Holder vs. Sean Hannity on Cliven Bundy’s Ranch; http://www.brunchnews.com/real-clear-pol...-s-ranch-975757

The National Journal: Cliven Bundy Just Ruined His Cause; http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/cliven-bundy-just-ruined-his-cause-20140424

No, Sean Hannity, you can’t distance yourself from Cliven Bundy; http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik...m-cliven-bundy/

Timothy Egan – Deadbeat on the Range; http://www.realclearpolitics.com/2014/04/18/deadbeat_on_the_range_330241.html

Of Fox and the Cattle; https://www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/6170847-of-fox-and-the-cattle

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#270309 - 04/27/14 08:59 AM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: SJGulitti]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6307
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: SJGulitti
... I think they were completely mistreated by the federal government. ...

Good rant, but can you explain how you think the Bundys were completely mistreated?
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
Unknown

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#270312 - 04/27/14 10:47 AM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: logtroll]
SJGulitti Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 417
Log my friend you should address your question to Tucker carlson not me as it was he who made that comment, per my quote of him above.

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#270314 - 04/27/14 11:15 AM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: SJGulitti]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6307
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Sorry, I misread your post.

You might try more paragraphs and using the quote box feature, as your information dense posts are even more difficult to read when so densely packed, print-wise. I didn't even notice that you were quoting Carlson at my first read. Second read I had to mechanically search for the quote marks that defined the Carlson quote, and not just words highlighted in quotes.
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
Unknown

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#270315 - 04/27/14 11:40 AM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: SJGulitti]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6307
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: SJGulitti
...While conservative commentators wrestled with the flawed logic of trying to justify Bundy’s trampling of cherished conservative principles ...

It is interesting that the farther righters of the Rightwingnutpartiers have disavowed most of the well-known Faux type boolshiters, and now automatically disparage every word they spout. Not many spokespersons left for that bunch, sepfer Sarah Palin and, of course, their freespeechin' guns.

Yet they still cling to the illusion that they represent the vast ocean of Mainstream Americans. I read one post yesterday where one is predicting a Malicia of 2,000,000 active members joining the Bundy Bunch very soon.
_________________________
"If you would make a person happy, add not to their possessions but take from their desires"
Unknown

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#270316 - 04/27/14 12:36 PM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: SJGulitti]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 36161
Loc: Portland, Oregon

The difference between T-Baggers and normal, sane society is that normal, sane society doesn't circle the wagons or double-down when they are wrong. T-Baggers never admit that they are wrong.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#270326 - 04/28/14 10:18 AM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10508
Loc: Downey, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: SJGulitti
...While conservative commentators wrestled with the flawed logic of trying to justify Bundy’s trampling of cherished conservative principles ...

It is interesting that the farther righters of the Rightwingnutpartiers have disavowed most of the well-known Faux type boolshiters, and now automatically disparage every word they spout. Not many spokespersons left for that bunch, sepfer Sarah Palin and, of course, their freespeechin' guns.

Yet they still cling to the illusion that they represent the vast ocean of Mainstream Americans. I read one post yesterday where one is predicting a Malicia of 2,000,000 active members joining the Bundy Bunch very soon.


That would sure be some miracle as they also plan to have 30 million militia-mannequins in Washington on May 16th to "take are cuntry bak"
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#270327 - 04/28/14 02:35 PM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 4832
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
one is predicting a Malicia of 2,000,000

LOL .... sorry ... ROFLMAO

i always scolded my children about laughing at people but i can;t help it .... there are far too many delusional folks out there ... sorry cant go on
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#270329 - 04/28/14 02:49 PM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: logtroll]
SJGulitti Offline
newbie

Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 417
The one very elemental point that I make to conservatives every time they try to talk their way out of why it is that they are not successful in changing America is that there simply aren't enough conservatives to make it happen. The idea that America is a right of center nation is farcical when you go inside the numbers in terms of self-identification by politiacl party or philosophy.

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#270331 - 04/28/14 07:18 PM Re: Cliven Bundy: Conservative’s Pig in a Poke [Re: SJGulitti]
Golem Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2235
Loc: Orange County, California, USA
I'm a conservative. Speaking for myself, I try to hold my side to the same standards that I hold the other side. I also try to look at things realistically. And I try to avoid the "circling the wagons" trap.

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