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#271159 - 06/04/14 01:32 AM The assassination of SGT Bergdahl
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 12375
I am so disgusted about this situation, I won't say more, now, but the efforts of the rightwing media machine to smear SGT Bergdahl are the newest low.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#271160 - 06/04/14 01:52 AM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 36768
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I am so disgusted about this situation, I won't say more, now, but the efforts of the rightwing media machine to smear SGT Bergdahl are the newest low.

It's disgusting. The Wingnuts I hang out with at Faux want him tried for treason and executed.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#271165 - 06/04/14 11:09 AM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: pdx rick]
Ardy Online   content
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11979
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Originally Posted By: california rick
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I am so disgusted about this situation, I won't say more, now, but the efforts of the rightwing media machine to smear SGT Bergdahl are the newest low.

It's disgusting. The Wingnuts I hang out with at Faux want him tried for treason and executed.


It is a sad day when traitors need to be tried at all. Justice should be sure and swift
_________________________
"It's not a lie if you believe it." -- George Costanza
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves. --Bertrand Russel

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#271167 - 06/04/14 11:25 AM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 12375
There are some fundamental distinctions between the prisoner exchange that occurred that released Bergdahl and his activities as a Soldier. IF he was AWOL at the time he was captured, he can be prosecuted under the UCMJ for that action. That neither negates his status as a Prisoner of War, nor the obligation the nation has toward him as its combatant.

Deliberately obscured in the character assassination machine is that these Taliban captives had to be released at the end of the year. They were not "terrorists" even if their organization engages in terrorist activities. They were enemy combatants at the time of their capture. Since the United States has announced the end of hostilities at the end of this year, it is required, under international law, to release any prisoners of war that it holds as a result of those hostilities.

Distinct from their character as prisoners of war is their potential trial for war crimes. In the 5+ years that they have been in our custody, however, we have not found sufficient evidence to try them for such crimes. In the absence of such a trial, we have no choice but to release them. Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Quote:
ARTICLE 118

Prisoners of war shall be released and repatriated without delay after the cessation of active hostilities.


What did we do with German POWs we held at the end of WWII? Korean and Chinese POWs at the end of the Korean War? Name a war where we have kept POWs after the conflict ended. Go on. I'll wait.

Because of the rhetoric of the Bush administration, and its abuse of international law, these issues have become obscured in the public mind (and deliberately conflated on FOX). If we want Bergdahl and any future American Soldiers to be treated as POWs, we have to follow international law in the treatment of our POWs. We signed a treaty, we abide by international law.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#271177 - 06/04/14 04:35 PM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 36768
Loc: Portland, Oregon


Dear Soldier/Airman/Seaman/Marine:

It has recently come to every American's attention that, should you fall into enemy hands, new circumstances dictate that your country may not want to actually bring you back. The standard has changed from “Leave no comrade behind” to “Leave no suitably telegenic comrade behind.” To help us decide whether you are fit to be rescued, or even searched for, we need to gather certain information to help us determine whether you are worth bothering with by anserwing the following questions:

1) Do you love America enough?
2) Do you believe in The Mission?
3) Do you have any family members who might make you or the United States look bad on TV, particularly to Fox News and its viewers?
4) If comrades die while searching for you, can you guarantee that your life was worth it?
5) If a substantial number of people believe you’re a deserter or a traitor, should we bring you back to try you in a court martial, or just take their word for it and leave you behind?
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



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#271181 - 06/04/14 08:37 PM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: pdx rick]
logtroll Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/25/10
Posts: 6740
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Forgot one -
6) Do you believe President Obama is an illegitimate, Kenyan, radical Muslim, Socialist, Communist, FAST 'N FURIOUS!!!, Fascist, freedom hating, America destroying, IRS!!!!, Constitution raping, law breaking, BENGHAZI!!, gun controlling, bigoted, pacifist, racist, war mongering, pussy mulatto who should be impeached?

(!! indicates uncontrolled outbursts)
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#271184 - 06/04/14 09:13 PM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: NW Ponderer]
Scoutgal Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 26348
Loc: CA USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
There are some fundamental distinctions between the prisoner exchange that occurred that released Bergdahl and his activities as a Soldier. IF he was AWOL at the time he was captured, he can be prosecuted under the UCMJ for that action. That neither negates his status as a Prisoner of War, nor the obligation the nation has toward him as its combatant.

Deliberately obscured in the character assassination machine is that these Taliban captives had to be released at the end of the year. They were not "terrorists" even if their organization engages in terrorist activities. They were enemy combatants at the time of their capture. Since the United States has announced the end of hostilities at the end of this year, it is required, under international law, to release any prisoners of war that it holds as a result of those hostilities.

Distinct from their character as prisoners of war is their potential trial for war crimes. In the 5+ years that they have been in our custody, however, we have not found sufficient evidence to try them for such crimes. In the absence of such a trial, we have no choice but to release them. Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949.
Quote:
ARTICLE 118

Prisoners of war shall be released and repatriated without delay after the cessation of active hostilities.


What did we do with German POWs we held at the end of WWII? Korean and Chinese POWs at the end of the Korean War? Name a war where we have kept POWs after the conflict ended. Go on. I'll wait.

Because of the rhetoric of the Bush administration, and its abuse of international law, these issues have become obscured in the public mind (and deliberately conflated on FOX). If we want Bergdahl and any future American Soldiers to be treated as POWs, we have to follow international law in the treatment of our POWs. We signed a treaty, we abide by international law.


Since the United States has not kept one treaty that it has signed with the Native Americans, and welched on their promise to give Filipinos that helped the US during WWII US citizenship, what makes you think that this country will abide by international law, if it doesn't suit the government's or US corporate interest?
_________________________
milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.





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#271190 - 06/04/14 09:41 PM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 12375
I have no control over history, Scout, but I feel strongly about our current obligations. More than that, however, I find the behavior of FOX on the topic reprehensible. Talk about demeaning our core American values. (I know you didn'y mean to suggest we shouldn't abide by international law just because we didn't in the past.)
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#271197 - 06/04/14 10:44 PM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: NW Ponderer]
Scoutgal Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 01/23/01
Posts: 26348
Loc: CA USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I have no control over history, Scout, but I feel strongly about our current obligations. More than that, however, I find the behavior of FOX on the topic reprehensible. Talk about demeaning our core American values. (I know you didn'y mean to suggest we shouldn't abide by international law just because we didn't in the past.)


I am also disgusted by the behavior of Faux News and the Right on this subject. And I would also like the US to abide by international law. But past behavior is a predictor for future behavior. I was just being cynical.
_________________________
milk and Girl Scout cookies ;-)

Save your breath-You may need it to blow up your date.





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#271199 - 06/04/14 11:07 PM Re: The assassination of SGT Bergdahl [Re: Scoutgal]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/13/07
Posts: 3094
Loc: Eugene, OR
I have listened to Rush (syndicated) and FOX since day one. Rush at the beginning was funny. Or at least had a biting sense of humor. Rush today is a blown mind.

And FOX is nothing more than a hysterical megaphone driving its followers evermore into the abyss. I am all for another point of view, but FOX and the assorted AM radio Xerox copies (anyone remember those?) offer nothing more than spite and hysteria. And yes-they a dangerous. Because their followers have simply ceased to think.
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The past is always tense, the future perfect.

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