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#271161 - 06/04/14 10:47 AM Open carry
Ardy Offline
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Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11524
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA

This posting is partially in response to the recent thread on right wing authoritarianism

The linked article on that thread is very thought provoking. One of the assertions is that rwa are more likely to erode bill of rights protections

But I was not so sure about this since for example these groups strongly advocate gun rights. Including access to the most powerful personal weapons and right to carry these openly in public. And in large club like groups.

Above is a picture of some folks doing an open carry event at a target store. These events are now common

So on one hand there is a rwa push to roll back limits on their gun freedom. So that seems to conflict with the idea that they want to roll back the bill of rights

But what happens if we re contextualize the discussion. What if this club of people carrying assault rifles were dressed to look like Taliban? Suppose a group of Taliban fighters with assault rifles showed up at a republican convention. Or an NRA meeting. I wonder what would be the open carry freedom of Muslims with assault rifles.

---11111
The same with defense of privacy. Due process or free speech.

When Muslim privacy or due process is invaded to protect against terrorism. That us great. But when our privacy is invaded it is a heinous violation of constitutional protections

And free speech is great to protect use of racist slurs. But if you are gay. Just shut up and do not rub our nose in your immoral lifestyle.

Bottom line. It seems like there are big differences between bill of rights protections for us vs protections for them
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#271168 - 06/04/14 11:46 AM Re: Open carry [Re: Ardy]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11738
Ardy, I so completely agree. Now, do you think you could convince any of these idiots advocates of the logic of your argument? I think it says a lot when the NRA describes your activity as weird.

I think that your suggestion, to show up at their events dressed in arab garb, has great merit. Unfortunately, I admit that I would not do so as these "advocates" have already shown aggressive hostility to others exercising their freedoms, and they are armed. If they had the capacity to intellectualize their positions... well, they probably would not be behaving as they are.

The "open carry" movement is stupid. It is not cnsistent with the Second Amendment or any other constitutionally protected activity. It is a threat to public safety and contrary to the so-called basis for their own movement. They are just thugs.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#271176 - 06/04/14 04:28 PM Re: Open carry [Re: Ardy]
california rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 35957
Loc: Bay Area, California

When the NRA suggests that Wingnuts "tone it down", there's a problem.
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#271232 - 06/05/14 10:09 PM Re: Open carry [Re: california rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1041
Loc: Middle, USA
Time to call in Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#271241 - 06/06/14 02:21 AM Re: Open carry [Re: Ardy]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11738
Naturally Jon Stewart just did a segment on the "openly stupid...uh, carry" movement. He pointed out that the NRA supports 'stand your ground'. The combination could result in open shootings.

Then they did a segment explaining the etiquette of open carry... contrasting between white and black patrons. Basically, if you are white it is a "political statement" - if you are black it is a threat to the public.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#271249 - 06/06/14 10:26 AM Re: Open carry [Re: Ardy]
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11524
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Let's put it this way

I am pretty dang sure that the police in east Oakland and south central la. Would not be thrilled about the idea of 20 kids with assault rifles roaming the streets

That is just a guess
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

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#271250 - 06/06/14 10:28 AM Re: Open carry [Re: Ardy]
Ardy Offline
veteran

Registered: 12/22/05
Posts: 11524
Loc: San Jose, Ca USA
Let's put it this way

I am pretty dang sure that the police in east Oakland and south central la. Would not be thrilled about the idea of 20 kids with assault rifles roaming the streets

That is just a guess
_________________________

"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

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#271251 - 06/06/14 10:33 AM Re: Open carry [Re: Ardy]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline
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Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 10485
Loc: Downey, California
Even in the days of The Old West they had more common sense than this.
_________________________
"Our options for change range from basically what we have plus a little more Hayek,
to what we have plus a little more Keynes. Why?"

---Benjamin Bratton

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#271254 - 06/06/14 10:45 AM Re: Open carry [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1041
Loc: Middle, USA
In a way, I am kind of glad that these gun totin' idiots are showing how idiotic our gun laws have become. Keep pushing, you poorly endowed idiots. And cheer them on, NRA. Sing your own death song.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

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#271259 - 06/06/14 11:43 AM Re: Open carry [Re: Spag-hetti]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
veteran

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 11738
Same-same?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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