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#275126 - 11/25/14 04:02 PM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Originally Posted By: pdx rick


12 shots, 153ft away. Unarmed suspect. Of course Wilson felt threatened. coffee
Where did you get your "facts", Rick?

According to the Grand Jury testimony Summary:
Quote:
Wilson, in his grand jury testimony, said Brown charged his police car. "The only way I can describe it, it looks like a demon, that's how angry he looked," Wilson told the panel, according to the transcript.

Other details also appeared to align in Wilson's favor (Emphasis added).
Including:
Quote:
The first two shots were fired when the officer was still sitting in his vehicle, leaving blood inside the car as well as on Wilson's pants.

"Mr. Brown's blood or DNA were found on the outside of the door," the prosecutor said.

That appeared to support Wilson's statement that Brown tried to strip him of his weapon during the altercation that followed the teen's alleged charging. Brown was 6-foot-4 and 292 pounds, and Wilson said he feared for his safety — yet the cop himself is an inch taller and 210 pounds.
Bruises on his face and neck also corroborate Officer Wilson's testimony (attached to article).

12 shots were fired, six hit. The last shot was within feet of Officer Wilson, also corroborating his statement... and that of several witnesses. Witnesses Told Grand Jury That Michael Brown Charged at Darren Wilson, Prosecutor Says.
Quote:
The fact that at least nine members of the 12-member panel could not agree to indict the officer indicates that they accepted the narrative of self-defense put forth by Officer Wilson in his voluntary, four hours of testimony before the grand jury. Mr. McCulloch, in his summary of the months of testimony, said it was supported by the most reliable eyewitness accounts — from African-Americans in the vicinity of the shooting — as well as physical evidence and the consistent results of three autopsies.
Quote:
According to witnesses and blood and other evidence found inside the car, Officer Wilson first fired two shots while he struggled with Mr. Brown through the window of his patrol vehicle, a Chevrolet Tahoe, grazing Mr. Brown’s hand.

Mr. Brown started to run away, with Officer Wilson in chase, then stopped and turned. According to the prosecutor’s summary, the officer fired five shots as Mr. Brown charged him, then another five shots as he made what one witness called a “full charge.”

The below documents are evidence the gra...bert McCulloch.

All I have ever said was, let the evidence come out. It has. It doesn't support your contentions. Be aware, also, that the Grand Jury does not have to be unanimous, and that the standard of proof is low: probable cause. Based upon their review of all of the evidence, even a majority of them did not believe there was sufficient evidence to meet that low burden. This was also an exceptionally experienced Grand Jury - this was the last case they reviewed over several months. In this particular incident, justice was served. Let it be.
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#275127 - 11/25/14 04:11 PM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: NW Ponderer]
Scoutgal Offline
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#275129 - 11/25/14 05:09 PM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
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Wilson: "When I grabbed him, the only way I can describe it is I felt like a five-year-old holding onto Hulk Hogan … That’s just how big he felt and how small I felt just from grasping his arm."

How small and fearful you felt grabbing a strapping young black man? Used to be that cops prided themselves on being tough.
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#275130 - 11/25/14 05:13 PM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
12 shots, 153ft away. Unarmed suspect. Of course Wilson felt threatened. coffee
Where did you get your "facts", Rick?

...from McCollough's press conference last night and is also stated in the Chicago Tribune.

Quote:
Brown's body was 153 feet from Wilson's SUV.
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#275131 - 11/25/14 05:30 PM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Bruises on his face and neck also corroborate Officer Wilson's testimony (attached to article)

ROTFMOL

Here are Officer Wilson's emergency room pics:

,

...a mere rug burn is no reason to execute an unarmed teenager. In RWinglandia, Wilson suffered an "orbital blowout" as idiot Jim Hoft stated.
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#275132 - 11/25/14 05:43 PM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
According to witnesses and blood and other evidence found inside the car, Officer Wilson first fired two shots while he struggled with Mr. Brown through the window of his patrol vehicle, a Chevrolet Tahoe, grazing Mr. Brown’s hand.


Chicago Tribune:

Quote:
- Brown's blood and or DNA were found on the outside of the SUV's driver's door and outside of left rear passenger door. His blood or DNA also were found on the inside of the driver's door.

- Brown's blood or DNA also was found on the upper left thigh of Wilson's pants leg, the front collar of his shirt and on the officer's weapon. Wilson was medically examined after the shooting and had some redness and swelling to his face.


Reuters:

Quote:
A graze wound on Brown's right thumb is believed to be the first wound and was the only one at close range.


Sure a lot of blood according to a medical examiner's stated "grazing." coffee

Where was Mark Furman?
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#275148 - 11/26/14 12:00 AM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8799
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
...All I have ever said was, let the evidence come out. It has. It doesn't support your contentions. Be aware, also, that the Grand Jury does not have to be unanimous, and that the standard of proof is low: probable cause. Based upon their review of all of the evidence, even a majority of them did not believe there was sufficient evidence to meet that low burden. This was also an exceptionally experienced Grand Jury - this was the last case they reviewed over several months. In this particular incident, justice was served. Let it be.

There does seem to be a good deal of criticism of McCulloch's use of the grand jury to essentially try the case behind closed doors, instead of seeking to establish probable cause for a real trial, where both sides are represented in a normal adversarial process. A grand jury is not supposed to serve justice, it is supposed to determine probable cause for a trial.

Think Progress- Ferguson legal experts

One seemingly unbalanced practice was to allow Wilson many hours to make his case to the grand jury, with no one making the counter case. That hardly qualifies as letting all the evidence come out. Without judging Wilson's innocence or guilt, I do believe that the grand jury process was inappropriate.
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#275150 - 11/26/14 03:03 AM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: Phil Hoskins]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Posts: 15967
The grand jury process is the only appropriate process, period.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#275151 - 11/26/14 03:17 AM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8799
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
No argument with that. But many think that the grand jury process was not conducted according to normal protocol. At least that's what I understand from the Think Progress article.
Quote:
But the presentation of all of the evidence to the grand jury struck other legal experts as inappropriate.
“[McCulloch] put the grand jury in the role of being a trier of fact, which is not its role,” Cohn said. “The grand jury was put in the position of basically being a jury, but in a one-sided, closed proceeding. The only people inside the grand jury room are the grand jury and prosecutors.”
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#275154 - 11/26/14 04:53 AM Re: Welcome to the RoundTable for November 2014 [Re: Phil Hoskins]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I haven't read the TP article, but I have some experience with the process. Rarely does a suspect testify, because they don't have to. They are allowed to. But, when the evidence is on their side, it may be prudent to do so. The deviations in the process can be best attributed to two things: the prosecutor wanted to avoid tainting the process, and the grand jury was exceptionally experienced. Grand juries are always secret, because the American justice system is premised on the principle that one is innocent until proven guilty. One should not be tried in public before actually being tried.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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