Current Topics
Voters
by chunkstyle
11:24 PM
Kavanaugh and the FBI
by rporter314
11:22 PM
The Midterms
by Jeffery J. Haas
11:14 PM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2018
by Golem
04:19 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
10/19/18 06:18 PM
The chosen one?
by pondering_it_all
10/19/18 05:04 AM
Roundtable for October 2018
by pondering_it_all
10/19/18 04:58 AM
What Left?
by Greger
10/19/18 03:18 AM
Debt Crises
by jgw
10/18/18 09:39 PM
The Magic of Biochar
by Greger
10/13/18 07:08 PM
The Blindness of Good intentions
by jgw
10/09/18 09:26 PM
Trump’s ‘New’ Can-Mex Trade Deal Has All Kinds Of Improvements? Thanks, Obama
by jgw
10/09/18 05:35 PM
The End of the Independent Judiciary
by pdx rick
10/07/18 02:55 PM
Tiny Hawaiian Gecko Accidentally Calls 'a Bazillion' People from Hospital Phone,
by Greger
10/07/18 01:09 AM
That Bombshell Report on Trump's Taxes May Spark an Investigation by New York
by Jeffery J. Haas
10/05/18 05:03 AM
A time when politics were not all about greed
by jgw
10/04/18 07:28 PM
George Will: Abolish the death penalty
by Greger
10/03/18 12:28 AM
if the Dems take over
by Greger
10/01/18 09:55 PM
Answer (Fredric Brown, 1954)
by jgw
09/28/18 06:24 PM
RoundTable for September 2018
by NW Ponderer
09/28/18 11:24 AM
Forum Stats
6248 Members
58 Forums
16401 Topics
282390 Posts

Max Online: 294 @ 12/06/17 12:57 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
#285054 - 02/19/16 05:14 PM Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking sides
Quote:
Apple Inc.’s fight against a federal court order demanding that it help unlock an iPhone used by one of the shooters in December's San Bernardino terrorist attack elicited a surge of comments from cybersecurity experts and legal analysts. Apple's fellow tech companies, on the other hand, have been very cautious about taking a stand.

Google Chief Executive Sundar Pichai tweeted a supportive response Wednesday afternoon about Apple chief Tim Cook’s stance. Jan Koum, chief executive and co-founder of mobile messaging app WhatsApp, backed Cook in a Facebook post. Facebook itself issued a statement Thursday afternoon that did not mention Apple or Cook by name.

Several other tech companies and their leaders have said nothing, or have talked about encryption and security in more general terms. Yahoo, Microsoft and AOL each signed on to joint statements made by larger tech company associations, but spokespeople for those companies said Thursday that the firms would not comment beyond those statements.
Apple vs Goliath -- LA Times

What do you think? It seems to me that law enforcement must have a way to get access to encrypted data much as it has access to the contents of your home under specific rules.
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

Top
#285055 - 02/19/16 05:41 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Greger Online   content

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 14285
Loc: Florida
Sorry, Phil, but I've got to come out on the side of privacy here. If the FBI hasn't got the resources to unlock the phone then perhaps it's best kept that way.

It's not this particular phone that matters so much as the potential for loss of privacy across the board.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#285057 - 02/19/16 05:45 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Greger]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
As I understand it, the encryption code is 4 numbers. The problem is that after 4 attempts to guess the code the data is destroyed.

What I do not understand is why such data deserves more protection than any other form of data with a warrant and similar legal protections?
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

Top
#285058 - 02/19/16 06:16 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ma_Republican Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 6505
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
As I understand it, the encryption code is 4 numbers. The problem is that after 4 attempts to guess the code the data is destroyed.

What I do not understand is why such data deserves more protection than any other form of data with a warrant and similar legal protections?


The number is 10 times before the data is destroyed, the encryption code is probably more like 20 characters, both numeric and alpha, upper and lower case. Encryption is intellectual property and once it is broken, it is useless. I do not believe that this is a big deal for the FBI. They go out, buy a dozen iPhones, turn on encryption and break the code. The big deal is that Apple won't play with the FBI.

I have gone back and forth on this issue, but I think I have to come down on the side with Apple. The FBI wants Apple, and by proxy everybody else, to provide a back door into their operating systems. This is Big Brother and Darth Vader all wrapped into one entity. Imagine what kind of info that the IRS could get, or the VA, or Homeland Security just by getting updates from the various SW developers? Think about how much more safer we would be from terrorists, and how much more danger we would be in by the people who are supposed top keep us safe and protect our privacy?

Screw em, let them break the encryption on their own. They have the technology, and the people to do the job. I would be very surprised if they haven't already gotten the data off of the phone and make copies of it. That way, when they exceed the 10 retries they can just reload the data and start over.

Tim
_________________________
A proud member of the Vast Right-wing Conspiracy, Massachusetts Chapter

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Thomas Jefferson

Top
#285061 - 02/19/16 06:30 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7934
Loc: North San Diego County
Getting 10 I phones doesn't help. The problem is that a brute-force attempt at decryption could take NSAs best computers 100 years. They are likely to have better computers (like quantum computers) long before a brute-force attack succeeds. So, from a technology viewpoint, the best option is just to wait for those better computers.

In a good encryption system, all the secret information is in the key itself. That way there is no algorithm or software an attacker can obtain that helps in his attack. In this case, they can easily defeat that "10 times and the data is erased" software feature, but that does not help with the basic "100 years to crack issue". It's not like Apple has a clear copy of the password in their corporate records.

Nor should they: Either you have back-doors and your encryption is worthless or you don't and your encryption is real. Anytime a back-door exists, the bad guys will figure out a way to get in. We see this over and over again as hackers steal millions of passwords.

Top
#285062 - 02/19/16 07:38 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
I gotta go with Apple et al on this one. The problem is, as PIA says, once you put in a back door it is available to good guys and bad guys. The problem is not just cracking one phone, it is a compromise to privacy and ONCE AGAIN in the name of National Security. If you allow it with Apple then every other manufacturer would be forced to follow suit. As bad as the privacy issue is now, it would get infinitely worse. The government is looking for a free pass into the lives of everyone, just as they have with the NSA and the emails, phone calls, etc.
Apple just may be right on this question.
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




Top
#285063 - 02/19/16 08:37 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Ezekiel]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
No one seems to want to answer how encryption is different from your front door -- in both cases entry is not permitted without a warrant. So why is this different:?
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

Top
#285064 - 02/19/16 08:46 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Phil Hoskins
No one seems to want to answer how encryption is different from your front door -- in both cases entry is not permitted without a warrant. So why is this different:?


Because a warrant is for A house - period.
If Apple creates a back door it will be like giving a blank warrant that can be used at any time for any house as many times as you want.
Not even close to the same thing.
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




Top
#285065 - 02/19/16 09:01 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: Ezekiel]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 41041
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
...If Apple creates a back door it will be like giving a blank warrant that can be used at any time for any house as many times as you want...

Eggzactly. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#285066 - 02/19/16 10:07 PM Re: Apple vs. the FBI: Facebook, Twitter, Google, John McAfee and more are taking si [Re: pdx rick]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3821
Loc: Eugene, OR
Apple’s response:

_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 53 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
TrentonP, Nosf50, erumonej, Jensen Breck, Albertapkr
6248 Registered Users
A2