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#287343 - 04/29/16 03:25 PM Re: Global warming [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40888
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


This post is a good example of how, and why, wingnuts get information so wrong - ALL of the time. coffee
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#287344 - 04/29/16 03:28 PM Re: Global warming [Re: bigswede]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8799
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Yeah, Chicken Little comes to mind.
As do the Emperor's New Clothes.
The Emperor (IPCC) is really naked, no matter what the phony weavers, the apologetic butlers and footmen say.

YES!! Away with all the vagaries of Science and the Laputans who spout it!

The world of fantasy and satire hews closer to the Truth than unreliable facts!
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#287348 - 04/29/16 06:20 PM Re: Global warming [Re: bigswede]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8799
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#287349 - 04/29/16 06:29 PM Re: Global warming [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40888
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

That is good news. In other Oklahoma news, Oklahoma court: oral sex is not rape if victim is unconscious from drinking.

One step forward, two steps back? Hmm
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#287352 - 04/29/16 06:51 PM Re: Global warming [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40888
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

...from your linky dink, Loggy:

Quote:
...while conservative Republicans' views are often distinctly different than the rest of the American public."


ROTFMOL ya' think?!? Hmm
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#287353 - 04/29/16 07:30 PM Re: Global warming [Re: bigswede]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
I drafted this last night, so I don't know if we've gone beyond this but...
Originally Posted By: bigswede
Remember that AGW is the original Climate Change label. AGW stands for Anthropogenic Global Warming.
And it is the common approach of the denialist community to focus solely on "Global Warming" as if it were a pejorative. And let's be honest, my friend, you are WHOLLY on board with denialism. To assert otherwise is disingenuous., e.g.:

Originally Posted By: bigswede
So far measurements have shown a slow trend of a warming climate.
Define slow? Slow is not the equivalent of "insignificant." Global warming is "a gradual increase in the overall temperature of the earth's atmosphere generally attributed to the greenhouse effect caused by increased levels of carbon dioxide, chlorofluorocarbons, and other pollutants."
Quote:
It is only when scientists calculate the average of temperature changes from every place on Earth over the course of a year to produce a single number, and then look at how that number has changed over time that a very clear, global warming trend emerges. ....
Earth's annual average temperatures from year to year are found to be very stable when nothing is forcing it to change. Today, though, every decade since 1960 has been warmer than the last, and the last three decades each have been the warmest on record. Relative to geologic time, the warming that has occurred—1.5°F (0.85°C) over a span of 100 years—is an unusually large temperature change in a relatively short span of time.
(Emphasis added) Does "global warming" mean it’s warming everywhere? NOAA: Climate.gov So, of course climate change is slow - it is largely a geologic process. But a .1 degree change globally is significant and a 2 degree change can be catastrophic.

Originally Posted By: bigswede
Many scientist say it's equally or even more likely a recovery after the Little Ice Age (LIA).
Many scientists? That is exactly the kind of vague broad-brush claim made in denialist circles. There is no substantiation of it. Also, the "Little Ice Age" was a localized (mostly European) phenomenon (see above), and not a "global event." These kinds of localized disruptions of weather patterns occur during a climate change. It is this kind of narrow thinking that generates more denialist claims, because they do not know what the terms mean.

Originally Posted By: bigswede
The anthropogenic component has not been confirmed. Therefore the claim of AGW is unsubstantiated.
Is COMPLETELY inconsistent with the claim that
Originally Posted By: bigswede
I'm not denying anything.
If it post like a duck, and argues like a duck, and cites like a duck... it's a duck. Although, I suppose, "denying being a denialist" is part of the denialist shtick.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#287354 - 04/29/16 07:39 PM Re: Global warming [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40888
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
If it post like a duck, and argues like a duck, and cites like a duck... it's a duck. Although, I suppose, "denying being a denialist" is part of the denialist shtick.

Boom!!! Oh dang!!!! smile
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#287355 - 04/29/16 08:31 PM Re: Global warming [Re: NW Ponderer]
bigswede Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 323
NWP
It surprises me you have fallen into the cliché thinking of alarmists. Calling me a denier, saying there is a denialist community. If anything is pejorative, that is.
Your interpretation that I focus solely in "Global Warming", when I am actually focusing on the Anthropogenic part of the alarmist claim, is utterly false and frankly dishonest.

A warming of approximately 1°C per century for the last two centuries, I consider a slow warming. This relatively steady pace also shows the Anthropogenic contribution is to small to calculate with accuracy and significance, not to mention validity. It's therefore also to small to consider for political decisions.

The LIA was best noted when it happened in Europe, but there are indications it was felt on other continents.

When I say that; "The anthropogenic component has not been confirmed. Therefore the claim of AGW is unsubstantiated."; it is completely consistent with me claiming to not deny anything.
I am searching for evidence of the Anthropogenic component, factor, human footprint, or what ever you prefer to call it. But so far no such evidence has been presented.
I'm not the one in denial here, it's the alarmists denying that they set a trap that sprung on themselves. The Anthropogenic trap!
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#287356 - 04/29/16 09:16 PM Re: Global warming [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Swede, with respect, there is a "denialist" community, and you are clearly part of it. I did not "assume" that was your position, but you have demonstrated it, repeatedly, throughout this thread. By denialism, I mean: those that deny the existence of, even in your limited explication "Anthropogenic Global Warming" (Although I submit your denial is far broader than that). You have denied that there is an anthropomorphic component to warming, you have denied that there is substantial evidence of warming, you have belittled the effects, you have described anyone who supports the claim as "alarmist" and belittle the qualifications of the climate science community. Those are all techniques of denialism. It is not skepticism, as that would imply an open mind, which you have not displayed anywhere in this discussion. You label yourself a "realist" and anyone who disagrees or disputes your disputations as "alarmist."

I have provided, throughout, citations to documentation; to studies; to government reports; to data compilations, to support every element of my discussion, none of which are given any credence by you, even though the vast majority of scientists of all disciplines and certainly nearly everyone who has studied climate science. Dissenters are given full credence, but majoritarian thinkers are dismissed outright. This is not a discussion, it is not reasoned argument. So, yes, I am frustrated, because contrary to your assertions, you are not applying any logic or rationality to your positions. You simply deny. That is denialism.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#287357 - 04/29/16 09:22 PM Re: Global warming [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15967
Let me go one step further: Is there any element of global warming which you concede is true?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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