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#297955 - 01/07/17 03:06 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: logtroll]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21132
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Who was it that advocated for UBI back in the 1960's?
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Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#297957 - 01/07/17 06:04 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: logtroll]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15251
Oh, oh, Pick me! Pick me!
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#297959 - 01/07/17 02:21 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8522
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
I am reading "Surviving the Future", a book about alternatives to the capitalist economic system. Some discussion is about "slack" and "tautness" in the economy. In capitalism, tautness is the holy grail, where every resource and every minute is used to make more money. Slack is viewed as anathema, to be avoided at all costs, as being "unproductive". In a triple-bottom-line model it is slack that is "productive" for the social and environmental sectors. Somehow, leisure, one form of slack, is promised as a reward of taut capitalism. It's offered up in much the same way as heaven, or 70 virgins, or your own planet is dangled carrot wise by certain religions as a reward for strict obedience to the cult.

Here is an interesting quote by a writer in the Democratic Review in 1853 regarding the day when the industrial revolution would make labor unnecessary; "Men and women will then have no harassing cares or laborious duties to fulfill. Machinery will perform all work - automata will direct them. The only task of the human race will be to make love, study, and be happy."

Apparently, capitalism is supposed to lead to luxurious socialism. Are we almost there, yet?
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"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#297961 - 01/07/17 05:01 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: NW Ponderer]
Ujest Shurly Online   sleepy
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 179
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Oh, oh, Pick me! Pick me!


Spring Butt (think a young Hermine Granger)

LOL ROTFMOL


Edited by Ujest Shurly (01/07/17 05:03 PM)
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Vote 2018

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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#297962 - 01/07/17 06:36 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6693
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
Are we almost there, yet?


I don't know about you, but I am feeling pretty slack since I retired in June.

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#297971 - 01/07/17 10:15 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: logtroll]
jgw Offline
member

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 1614
Loc: Port Angeles, WA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: jgw
...Before any of the above happens, of course, we are going to have to work through the dealing with our incredibly greedy, incompetent, self serving elected class which, I fear, is going to take a LONG time, effort and pain.

Well said. I would add that we have a culture, based on capitalism, that needs to be changed. We won't get the right kind of politicians until that happens.


The basic problem is simple greed, not capitalism. I can remember a time when corporation ceo folk only made 2 or 3 times what those they hired made, now they make 200 to 300 times more. This has been a problem for a very long time. I believe the standard is set by our elected class and that class is elected by US! I am not sure how to change this as I believe that our culture is now based on pure, unadulterated greed, and that never used to be the case and the greedy eventually fell from grace. Now they are not. The Obama administration has made it very clear that if you break the law, and you have the big bucks then they get to pay a fine instead. This is a TERRIBLE plan and when our government catches the malefactor they are fined which makes their activities subject to just another cost of doing business. This is not capitalism but something else entirely. it used to be that the bad guys got to do time - no longer.

I doubt that it would ever happen but, I wonder when the last time was when a voter asked one of their elected whether rich criminals should goto prison. If they get a positive answer then the next thing to do is ask how much time he/she has spent making sure that ALL criminals get to goto jail.

Bank of America was fined when they were caught counterfeiting documents so they could foreclose houses (I think Trump may have nominated the guy in charge of that one to take over treasury). HSBC was caught laundering over 300 BILLION in drug money. Freely admitted it and was fined. (there are a LOT of these!

I think my point is that WE are doing an incredibly bad job of electing our elected class. They are returning the favor by screwing us ALL over, bigtime.

Just a thought...........

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#297972 - 01/07/17 11:12 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: jgw]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21132
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Brave New World?

Basic Income
_________________________
Life is a banquet -- and most poor suckers are starving to death -- Auntie Mame
You are born naked and everything else is drag - RuPaul

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#297973 - 01/07/17 11:55 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: logtroll]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
So greed is inherent in human nature? You should convince the rest of the anthropological world of that. It'll be news to them.
Capitalism breeds greed. So the problem is?
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




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#297974 - 01/08/17 12:33 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: Ezekiel]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8522
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
That is the essentially contention of the author of Surviving the Future - capitalism is a system that promotes the accumulation of money, which easy corrodes to greed.

One way of attributing our current economic woes is the rapidly worsening wealth gap. besides, capitalism does not have columns for entries in the account book for anything but money. Everything else is marginalized, i.e. "slackness".

jgw's slackness from retiring, aka having acquired enough capital to retire, is an escape from participatory capitalism (the American Dream?).

Isn't that interesting - the idea that the American Dream is to escape the capitalist system!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

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#297975 - 01/08/17 01:07 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: jgw]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6693
Loc: North San Diego County
The rich get away with everything: Like Martha Stewart and Congressman Randy Cunningham? Not all of them do...

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