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#297979 - 01/08/17 10:30 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
The rich get away with everything: Like Martha Stewart and Congressman Randy Cunningham? Not all of them do...


The bankers that ripped off tens of thousands of people in the 2008 meltdown did. They actually profited from it.
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#297991 - 01/08/17 11:43 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3802
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
Who was it that advocated for UBI back in the 1960's?


I believe you are thinking of Milton Friedman? In the 1980’s economist Charles Murray became a proponent of his idea. I thought it to be slightly outrageous at the time but in light of today’s global economy it makes more sense that ever:

Quote:
When people learn that I want to replace the welfare state with a universal basic income, or UBI, the response I almost always get goes something like this: “But people will just use it to live off the rest of us!” “People will waste their lives!” Or, as they would have put it in a bygone age, a guaranteed income will foster idleness and vice. I see it differently. I think that a UBI is our only hope to deal with a coming labor market unlike any in human history and that it represents our best hope to revitalize American civil society.


Link
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#297993 - 01/09/17 12:12 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: logtroll]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40878
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Milton Freeman is that shyte Chicago School of Economics, Professor, whose theories were never tested, and whose theories was the inspiration for the CIA-led Coup in Chile in 1972 that installed Pinochet - which then tested Freeman's theories and they were a complete and utter disaster, that Naomi Klein wrote about in her book, The Shock Doctrine.
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#297996 - 01/09/17 07:41 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: pdx rick]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
actually it seems to me it was one of the Kennedy advisors
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#298014 - 01/10/17 11:04 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: pdx rick]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3802
Loc: Eugene, OR
So- Rick- what are you saying? Are you saying since Friedman is unworthy as a human- through his associations and thoughts- and that he might have mentioned this idea years ago- the idea itself becomes unworthy, worthless, and suspect?

I am quite sure the idea of a UBI was not the brainstorm of a single human. If one looks over the years it is likely a result of A positing to B, then read by C, and subsequently discussed by D (and others) then disseminating down the line, that then the idea somewhat took hold.

Along comes Charles Murray.

Is UBI the answer?

Unlikely.

Although with this idea, a possible band aid might be able to be applied to stem the bleeding. And possibly good things could result from it. Any better ideas are welcomed.

By the globe.


Edited by Ken Condon (01/11/17 04:01 AM)
Edit Reason: articles of elusidation
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#298042 - 01/11/17 11:09 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: logtroll]
matthew Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 334
'
Finland Launches Basic Income Experiment

Quote:
Finland has become the first country in Europe to pay its unemployed citizens a basic monthly income, amounting to 560 euros ($782 Canadian), in a unique social experiment which is hoped to cut government red tape, reduce poverty and boost employment....
Those chosen will receive 560 euros every month, with no reporting requirements on how they spend it. The amount will be deducted from any benefits they already receive.

This is the sort of progressive program which I like to see --- scientific, experimental studies to see what actually happens, rather than the endless political dogma rants which are so common in the USA.
.
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#298111 - 01/14/17 05:09 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
From "Surviving the Future" by David Fleming:

Quote:
The key to all this [the unintended consequences of industrial agriculture] is to recognize that the driving force behind industrial agriculture is not (as is usually claimed), the need to feed the world's population of 7 billion or more. Indeed, as a way of providing food, industrial agriculture is inefficient: the use of giant-scale standardisation on single crops is not a way to get the maximum yield from an acre of land, but to get the maximum yield per worker; the machinery and chemicals are intended to depopulate the agricultural landscape. Those workers that do remain are a quaint rearguard in retreat from the robots.
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#298120 - 01/14/17 10:37 PM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: logtroll]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Applying a band aid to a cancer patient? - never has worked.

I believe Milton Friedman is who Rick is referring to. A despicable human and an apologist for laissez faire capitalism. A con man on the same level as Trump.
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




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#298123 - 01/15/17 12:03 AM Re: Universal Basic Income? Guaranteed Job? [Re: Ezekiel]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Applying a band aid to a cancer patient? - never has worked.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
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