Current Topics
Saudi Arabia - yet again
by Ujest Shurly
7 minutes 26 seconds ago
South African hunter WAS killed by a crocodile, DNA tests on human remains found
by logtroll
Today at 12:16 AM
Trump Forum
by logtroll
Today at 12:13 AM
fix the telemarketing thing
by Jeffery J. Haas
Yesterday at 08:44 PM
15 Worst Star Trek Episodes Of All Time
by pondering_it_all
Yesterday at 06:05 PM
Trump and Russia
by rporter314
Yesterday at 03:13 PM
Miscellaneous humor thread
by Golem
05/22/17 04:28 PM
Trump's Great Speech
by pondering_it_all
05/22/17 12:33 AM
American Nations
by Greger
05/21/17 08:14 PM
Next Trump Clusterfork: Tax Reform
by Greger
05/21/17 03:55 AM
just stuff - maps
by jgw
05/20/17 06:22 PM
Seth MacFarlane Is Headed to Space with 'The Orville' on Fox
by Golem
05/20/17 04:28 PM
How is Trump President?!
by Ken Condon
05/20/17 05:41 AM
The Passing Parade: Obituaries: 2017
by pondering_it_all
05/19/17 06:26 PM
Is this the most violent movie year in history?
by rporter314
05/19/17 05:30 PM
Forum Stats
6220 Members
57 Forums
15911 Topics
274743 Posts

Max Online: 282 @ 05/29/08 05:08 AM
Google Adsense
Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#289897 - 07/14/16 10:08 AM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: pdx rick]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pdx rick

Conservatives lay blame on today's racial tensions on BLM and Barack Obama. It's too bad they're not honest enough to voice that racial tensions have always been a part of the American cultural make-up.


I would say, Rick, that recently, a large part of the racial tension is being generated by people like Trump, Palin, Cruz, Huckabee, etc.
So the Republithugs are responsible for a heaping share of the blame.
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




Top
#289898 - 07/14/16 10:09 AM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer


4) I've been present in a riot before (St. Louis). It is nearly as scary as combat, and even more chaotic. An under-equipped police force is vulnerable to being overwhelmed, and I've seen that too (Seattle WTO).


Los Angeles 1992, Rodney King riots, BetaCam in hand.


Chicago, 1968, hospitalized for 3 weeks.
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




Top
#289900 - 07/14/16 02:29 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: Ezekiel]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15180
True story 1: I used to represent the State Patrol and was defending release of disciplinary records for a case. The sole complaint against this Trooper was unfounded, but occurred as follows: A young black woman was involved in an intersection accident on a state highway. She pulled a gun on the other driver during the ensuing argument. The Trooper arrived on the scene about 7 minutes after the collision. The driver tried to tuck her pistol in her waistband as the Trooper arrived and it discharged into her buttocks. While taking her statement, the Trooper noticed she was bleeding and called for an ambulance, he then rendered first aid (and discovered the pistol). She alleged misconduct asserting that the State Patrol deliberately delayed calling an ambulance. Subsequent investigation determined that 3 minutes elapsed between the troopers arrival and ambulance dispatch, that the driver had run a red light (intersection camera), and that she was probably under the influence (hospital drug screen), although she was not charged for that.

The point here is that frivolous claims are often made by citizens against officers, even when they do the right thing.

True story 2: A friend was buying vape supplies at a smoke shop. After buying his stuff, while walking out of the store, a customer told him he'd left his wallet. Chagrined, he picked it up and exited. In the parking lot he discovered it wasn't his wallet, so he put the wallet in an envelope, put 4 stamps on it, and mailed it to the address on the ID.

A week later, while at work, he was called by a detective and questioned about taking the wallet. The detective literally accused him of being a thief and a liar in the conversation. It turns out that the wallet (and other mail) was stolen from the mailbox, but recovered the same day and returned to the owner, who did not report the recovery to the police because he'd gotten everything back. The detective found this out, called my friend back and tried to badger him to "change his story."

My friend, who has a clean record, was charged with stealing $50 from the wallet (an amount which only shows up in the officer's report and in no other statements). The prosecutor refused to drop the charge just to cover the cop's ass, because, I quote, "I don't not have a case" even though 1) the victim never reported any money missing 2) surveillance tape shows an empty wallet, 3) the victim reports he recovered everything and 4) postal records show that the mailbox is a frequent target of mail thieves.

The point is that the "justice" system is rigged against "defendants" even when clear evidence refutes the officer's report, rather than admit a mistake.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#289902 - 07/14/16 03:09 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: matthew]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
True story (1 of many)
In the months following 9/11 I was working on a project for a company in NYC that shall go unamed - suffice it to say that said company was a service provider (in the technical field) for the NYPD.
A colleague and I were working late (it was almost 9 pm) when a man came in and identified himself as a detective with the intelligence unit of the NYPD and asked if we could help him with something.
After explaining what it was we did there he took out a scrap of paper and asked if we recognized a code or perhaps some foreign language - and if so, could we decipher it.
At first blush it looked like gibberish. But, there are several tests and techniques for identifying such things so we asked him to give us some time - 24 hours - to run the tests and try to identify what exactly he had there.
After about 12 hours we came to the conclusion that it was gibberish, with about 90% of certainty. Just so you know, that is pretty high and you don't often get that level of confidence.
When we told him what we had found he became furious with us - yelling basically that he was sure it was some type of code and that we were incompetents.
It turns out (we didn't know this at the time) he had already arrested someone for terror related charges based on this scrap of paper.
Well, we don't like being called idiots so we sent the paper along to the FBI lab to test for physical evidence and to the NSA for any known types of cipher.
FBI came back negative for any connection between the guy he had arrested and the scrap of paper.
NSA came back with the same conclusion we had drawn: gibberish.
Further info that we got from the NYPD informed us that said detective was later brought up for disciplinary action for forging and providing false evidence. The poor guy he arrested was sent to Guantanamo as an enemy combatant and was only released some years later - caught in government red tape, apparently.
Moral: humans can be real a$$holes sometimes.
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




Top
#289904 - 07/14/16 05:50 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: Ezekiel]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6600
Loc: North San Diego County
Look at those misconduct numbers. At worst the misconduct is down around 2% over the whole career of all police. We don't really have much of a misconduct problem as much as a systematic failure to report that misconduct. We need to increase reporting, and one way to do that is to charge officers who fail to report with the same crime as the officer who abused their power.

Always-on body cameras are mandatory, too. I keep hearing about police just turning off their cameras. That defeats the purpose.

Top
#289905 - 07/14/16 06:27 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Look at those misconduct numbers. At worst the misconduct is down around 2% over the whole career of all police. We don't really have much of a misconduct problem as much as a systematic failure to report that misconduct. We need to increase reporting, and one way to do that is to charge officers who fail to report with the same crime as the officer who abused their power.

Always-on body cameras are mandatory, too. I keep hearing about police just turning off their cameras. That defeats the purpose.

And to your point: in the Sterling killing in La. The police alleged that their cameras "fell off". This after arresting the shop owner, who had nothing to do with the story, handcuffing him in the car and then taking apart the surveillance equipment in his store. Fortunately for us, he had recorded it on his cell phone and they didn't notice that, so they gave his cell phone back.
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




Top
#289908 - 07/14/16 07:35 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: matthew]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
And as if we needed yet further proof: rolleyes

Quote:
THE BATON ROUGE Police Department and state law enforcement officials were sued in federal court on Wednesday for violating the First Amendment rights of dozens of protesters detained at demonstrations in the city last weekend.

The suit, which asks for a restraining order to prohibit officers from arresting or intimidating protesters rallying to express their anger at the killing of Alton Sterling, was filed by a coalition of rights groups, including the American Civil Liberties Union and the National Lawyers Guild.


The lawyers note that a litany of violations can be seen in video recorded by protesters and journalists as more than 180 arrests were made over the weekend by heavily armed police officers, including:

a. Excluding lawful protestors from public forum space, including sidewalks, neutral ground, and public property;
b. Engaging with peaceful protestors in a militarized fashion, including full body gear, threatening the use of chemical agents, and keeping live automatic weapons trained on peaceful crowds;
c. Arresting protestors for “obstruction” of a highway in the absence of any impact on traffic or vehicle safety;
d. Giving contradictory and confusing ad hoc orders to protestors, then arresting individuals for noncompliance;
e. Arresting legal observers and members of the press without probable cause;


The Intercept
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




Top
#289909 - 07/14/16 08:51 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: Ezekiel]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3691
Loc: Eugene, OR
Quote:
humans can be real a$$holes sometimes.

On this we are in total agreement. All I was asking of Matthew was to provide some links to his provocative accusations. As per requests by both Phil and earlier by Doug regarding a given topic.

And I am not naive enough to believe that all cops are good cops. Almost always when one group is given power over another you will find a percentage of those in power who will abuse that power. The percentage of that I can only guess at but I know and acknowledge that does happen. The big question that needs to be answered is how do we deescalate the tensions, and sometimes brutalities, between police forces and the citizens they are supposedly there to protect?

And for that I don’t have an answer....Just yet.
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Top
#289910 - 07/14/16 09:15 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: Ken Condon]
Ken Condon Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 06/14/07
Posts: 3691
Loc: Eugene, OR
Several of you have commented on being part of situations where police have overstepped their bounds. I was witness to the following in 1991. I was just pulling into the shopping center parking lot this incident took place at and semi witnessed the fiasco.

Officer Brad Sharpton was a known hothead on the Corvallis PD and although he was legally exonerated in this incident he was a guy who never should have been a cop. And he absolutely did not have to shoot and kill Terry Schmidt. The CPD at the time “imported” burned out officers from the LAPD supposedly to mellow them out. I am not sure if Sharpton came from the LAPD but word was he had been. He was also involved in other over the top incidents while on the Corvallis police force.

The article is on the left side of the copied newspaper page:

Link
_________________________
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

Top
#289911 - 07/14/16 11:34 PM Re: Who will protect Main Street, USA from militarized police forces? [Re: Ken Condon]
matthew Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 231
'
Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
And why do I not believe your recitation?

Originally Posted By: Ken Condon
First of all Matthew I fully disclose my name and where I live. Unlike many on this board who are too afraid to do so. It is easily verifiable by a quick internet search if your might be predisposed.

I stand by any thing and everything I might say here-no matter how misguided it might be.

You have just laid out an outrageous statement that, if true, should be reason for the feds to get involved. If you could be so kind as to provide verifiable links regarding your very serious accusations-- we all would be most appreciative.

Well, Ken, you have all but called me a liar and a coward -- any other insults you want to fling at me while you are at it?

I also stand by what I have written here -- it was from my own personal experience and not from some news report, which should have been obvious to anyone who had actually read what I wrote.

Despite your bullying tactic, I certainly will not provide my real name and address on a public site like this. In a country as corrupt and dangerous as the USA, I think that anyone who would do so is a fool -- my personal opinion, of course.

My story is as accurate as I could make it -- like it or lump it, as you choose.
.


Edited by matthew (07/14/16 11:43 PM)
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of Americans

Top
Page 3 of 7 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 42 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
agentfity, ojixadybi, tjgraylaw, AndyEmisa, lubluodPix
6220 Registered Users
A2