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#297824 - 01/03/17 06:27 AM A suggestion for our way forward
Phil Hoskins Offline
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Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21134
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
I was in a conversation that raised the example of resistance and civil disobedience of the past. I suggested:

Quote:
I, too, have done that. It seems to me we need to emphasize cooperation, examine what we "know." At our core we are a cooperative animal. Yes we have different approaches, and even "truths", but our survival demands we find a different way forward,
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#297858 - 01/04/17 03:58 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: Phil Hoskins]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8729
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
There is the matter of resistance, and "fighting", which I am tempted to judge but on reflection think it would be foolish.

Besides fighting there is also the matter of developing a way forward, as Phil raises in this thread. Frankly, the standard liberal way forward is mired in a status quo system of ideological capitalism that is a dead end. It's dying now and taking us all with it.

We need to be developing alternatives that will become the status quo. The capitalist system will resist mightily, with all the advantages that accompany occupying the walled castle on top of the hill.

The new way forward must be built out beyond the range of the castle, in small clusters of community that seem insignificant the capitalist overlords. We need to establish a new resilience at the local level. We need to consciously change the culture of our lives away from existing as micro-cogs in the gigantic capitalist machine.

Winning a struggle against the machine will be pointless if there is nothing there to replace it. (The GOP is figuring this out right now with respect to the ACA).

I am reading a book by David Fleming, Surviving the Future, that is all about this. Here is a passage on his preferred response to the social, economic, and environmental collapse that we are experiencing. He identifies four possibilities: growth; continuity; descent; collapse.

Quote:
Descent. This is the steep winding-down of the size of the industrial economy. It strips away its burdens and complications, nurses the human ecology back to health, builds local competence and discovers a sense of place. It thinks afresh about how to get out of the aforementioned double-bind. The descent itself is inevitable, as is the breakage that follows, and yet, this is a managed descent, in contrast with descent that forces itself on an economy blindly straining for growth. The shock is as gentle and survivable as foresight can make it.


Edited by logtroll (01/04/17 07:41 PM)
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#297866 - 01/04/17 08:31 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7382
Loc: North San Diego County
I think California is quite likely to replace anything Congress takes away. So at least 1/5 the population of the US is still somewhat secure in spite of their efforts. Ironic that the Republican's States Rights arguments blow back in their faces.

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#297867 - 01/04/17 09:08 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40767
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


The standard liberal way is to get along and be copacetic - basically be spineless.

SEE: Refusal to investigate George W's and Dick Cheney's War Crimes.
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#297880 - 01/04/17 10:06 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: pdx rick]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


The standard liberal way is to get along and be copacetic - basically be spineless.

SEE: Refusal to investigate George W's and Dick Cheney's War Crimes.


A yup !
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"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
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#297882 - 01/04/17 10:17 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: Ezekiel]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40767
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


The standard liberal way is to get along and be copacetic - basically be spineless.

SEE: Refusal to investigate George W's and Dick Cheney's War Crimes.


A yup !

My ex visited for NY weekend. He asked: whatever happened about trading houses with "that guy"? I said it was only for a year, but the girlfriend wasn't down with the idea.

Too bad. I would have really loved to live in NYC for one year.
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#297885 - 01/04/17 11:03 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: pdx rick]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Originally Posted By: Ezekiel
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


The standard liberal way is to get along and be copacetic - basically be spineless.

SEE: Refusal to investigate George W's and Dick Cheney's War Crimes.


A yup !

My ex visited for NY weekend. He asked: whatever happened about trading houses with "that guy"? I said it was only for a year, but the girlfriend wasn't down with the idea.

Too bad. I would have really loved to live in NYC for one year.


I was hot for the swap as well. She just couldn't deal with it. frown
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




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#297902 - 01/05/17 10:30 AM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: Phil Hoskins]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40767
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

My way forward: viva la resistance

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#297903 - 01/05/17 12:06 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: Phil Hoskins]
Ezekiel Offline
old hand

Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 6387
Loc: New York
The only way forward. ThumbsUp
_________________________
"The liberals can understand everything but people who don't understand them."
Lenny Bruce

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."
Dostoevsky




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#297905 - 01/05/17 12:14 PM Re: A suggestion for our way forward [Re: Ezekiel]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8729
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
The only way? What happens after we get forward? Shouldn't there be a plan?

We are watching the "conservatives" now floundering around after they "went forward" successfully using a singular strategy of resistance and fighting.

Looks to be like we "went backward" because they had no positive plan of what to do with the win.

What do you plan to do with the win, if and when it results from all the resistance and fighting?
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"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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