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#298218 - 01/19/17 03:59 AM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
Well thanks for bringing this concept to our attention loggy. Had an interesting evening reading about this concept. I agree that it will take a myriad of practices to reduce the current and ominous level of CO2 level down to a safer level.
The gigafactory has been another place to find inspiration. China announcing a 350 billion dollar investment plan in renewables and halting production on 100 coal fired electric plants was welcome news this past week. The only bright spot for me in 2016 has been the momentum in renewables and now this sequestration technique to learn about.
If only it were possible to get a carbon trade market going to help accelerate this progress.

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#298219 - 01/19/17 08:35 AM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7566
Loc: North San Diego County
Eventually, we need to create some sort of autonomous carbon sequestration mechanism if we want to keep on inhabiting this planet. That might be in the form of plants that respond to high CO2 levels by growing woody tubers that remain in the ground for a long time.

It could be nanotechnology that reproduces for a certain number of generation (ala telomeres) and then pulls CO2 apart to yield free oxygen and diamond crystals. Then all the diamond crystals laying around could be used as abrasives or gravel for concrete, landscaping, etc.

It might actually be big chemical factories, like the WW II German plants that made gasoline from CO2. (But probably impossible to scale up enough.)

It is just a technical problem and it can be solved with the right technology. Everyone cutting their energy use drastically is not a reasonable solution. Too many people would die.

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#298222 - 01/19/17 12:55 PM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Eventually, we need to create some sort of autonomous carbon sequestration mechanism if we want to keep on inhabiting this planet.

One way plants do it with is with their good friend in the biomass manufacturing biz - fungi.

I have seen photos of wheat that was coaxed back into its perennial nature with root systems extending 15" deep into the ground that were thicker than Rapunzel's hair. That is what our grassland prairies were like before the plow.

And I disagree that drastically cutting energy use would be a problem. I have insulated homes where the building energy use was cut to less than half - they not only didn't suffer, they enjoyed a more comfortable habitat and had a lot more money in their pockets. I am of the unscientific opinion that Americans (the world's biggest energy squanderers) could cut our energy use in half and generally be better off. We just have a culture that is wasteful and thoughtless about such things.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#298223 - 01/19/17 02:18 PM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
"Sustainable" consumption vs reduced consumption

Quote:
While it is clear that global trade play a major role as a driver of destruction of biodiversity there is no way “consumers” in the US or other developed economies can be expected to take responsibility for the effect on biodiversity of their consumption. It is a tall order even for the companies trading or the retailers selling the products. Citizens should rather take responsibility by a general reduction in consumption, by favoring local goods exchange and relationships and by opposing policies that further drive international trade.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#298224 - 01/19/17 03:10 PM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
I agree, international consumption is causing a lot of drive in consuming limited resources. A carbon trade market would go a long way to redirecting those free market impulses in a more sustainable direction.
A problem I see is the growing rejectionism of climate science and all the attendant solutions. I have had conversations with a number of educated individuals who will cling to the contrarian view, finding shelter in the notion that 'we simply don't know how much of this is man made'.
I believe a large part of this thinking is a result of efforts by petroleum co's trying to stave off a shift away from petroleum. Carbon trading schemed are so much white noise to the converts of rejectionism.

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#298225 - 01/19/17 03:15 PM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: logtroll]
chunkstyle Offline
journeyman

Registered: 10/02/07
Posts: 815
I take heart that in less than 8 years we have brought down the energy consumption of a 60W bulb to 8.5W with a $1.20 LED bulb. Even the market forces will compel a rejectionist to adopt if it's in their financial interest and doesn't immediately challenge their religion.

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#298227 - 01/19/17 04:07 PM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: chunkstyle]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8785
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: chunkstyle
I agree, international consumption is causing a lot of drive in consuming limited resources. A carbon trade market would go a long way to redirecting those free market impulses in a more sustainable direction.
A problem I see is the growing rejectionism of climate science and all the attendant solutions. I have had conversations with a number of educated individuals who will cling to the contrarian view, finding shelter in the notion that 'we simply don't know how much of this is man made'.
I believe a large part of this thinking is a result of efforts by petroleum co's trying to stave off a shift away from petroleum. Carbon trading schemed are so much white noise to the converts of rejectionism.

I agree. I have learned to lead with the economic advantages of insulation, and other energy conserving options (you will save this much money) and often don't even bring up the social and environmental benefits, unless the customer or audience is wanting to hear it. Some people will reject a product that has a permanent 50% annual ROI if they hear it is "environmentally good". Incandescent light bulb loyalty is a good example.

Some kind of carbon support would vastly accelerate the shift from fossil fuels - they'd be dead in ten years - that's why it won't happen. Instead the planet will be dead in 50 years!

Oh, the logic of capitalism and "free" markets!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you understand what the problem is." Logtroll

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#298231 - 01/19/17 08:38 PM Re: Unconventional approach to energy production [Re: logtroll]
pondering_it_all Offline
veteran

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 7566
Loc: North San Diego County
I'm not talking about insulating our houses and using efficient light bulbs: We are already doing that. That is just idiotic not to do, financially. I'm talking about totally disruptive pie-in-the-sky ideas like going back to horse-driven farming and everything organic. Some of the energy-use news makers propose ridiculous things like that that completely ignore the size of the human population.

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