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#298980 - 02/24/17 08:39 PM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: bigswede]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5982
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
Can it be that the profession is restricting the output of licensed doctors on the market? Keeping supply short, to keep prices up?

Let me try and unpack that.

The medical profession is engaged in a conspiracy to limit the number of doctors so each one can make more money than they can stand. Doctors work an average 60hr/wk and the ave pay is about $180k-$190k/yr. works out to about $60/hr, which is not bad I suppose for a casual money maker.

But the facts portray a different scenario. First I would not go to a doctor whose primary reason to be a doctor was to make money.

But there are a number of reasons (and not in any particular order) primary care physicians are in short supply. Part is perception. Look at rural areas. Some 33% of states have over a 50% shortage of primary care physicians in rural areas which inherently means the ones who are working are overloaded. Population has increased faster than replacement of doctors. Medical schools graduate more specialists than ever before leaving fewer primary care docs. Longer hours with less pay. and more

As you can see, it is not a simple glib comment about money.
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#298981 - 02/24/17 09:00 PM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: NW Ponderer]
bigswede Offline
newbie

Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 251
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Originally Posted By: bigswede
There is no way there will be neither emergency care nor healthcare available without any profit incentive.
In trying to figure out how that makes any sense whatever.
Originally Posted By: bigswede
What happens in tax funded medical aid systems is that the system finds it profitable to do away with staff. That way the few left are able to get more money each.
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Sorry, but that nonsense requires some citation or source. It just doesn't work that way.


It is this generalization of Parkinson's law:
The demand upon a resource tends to expand to match the supply of the resource.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law

Originally Posted By: bigswede
The queue is the hallmark sign of socialism.

Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
As demonstrated earlier, that is simply a falsehood.

I beg to differ. As demonstrated by experience in Cuba, the Soviet union, DDR, communist China, communist Vietnam, it is true.

Originally Posted By: bigswede
the best way would be to allow public systems real negotiating power when buying medicine, surgery or what ever. That way profit would be available only to those who can produce most effectively. Wouldn't that be the American way?
It would be, except when ideologues prevent it from happening (as during the Bush administration). The ACA actually does that ... so, I'm trying to ascertain the point/objection.
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#298983 - 02/24/17 09:08 PM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: logtroll]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 160
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
15% of the US population receives medicare (single payer), 16% medicaid (single payer). VA provides care to 9 million vets (direct and single payer), as does Tricare for active, reserve and retired military and family (single payer), and an additional 2.2 million Native Americans by the Indian Health Service. That's a LOT of socialized medicine.

Yabbut... ain't all the folks on socialized healthcare plans HOLLERING to be on Free Market Insurance?


I'm not! I like my Insurance coverage.
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#298985 - 02/24/17 09:16 PM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: rporter314]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 160
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
First I would not go to a doctor whose primary reason to be a doctor was to make money.



Hate to say this, but accordion to my (now dead) Brother-in-Law (Vice-President of a Hospital in Anne Arundel County MD, Personnel and Budget)all Doctors are in it for the money. Though many also want to do good by the patient, but the money is first.
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Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

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#298990 - 02/24/17 11:09 PM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: Ujest Shurly]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8486
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
My still live BIL went in it for the money, too. He's got some heart about it, but still uses money as the top consideration for deciding where to work.
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#298991 - 02/24/17 11:25 PM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: bigswede]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5982
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Parkinson's Law is independent of political systems

differences between you and others does not imply the others are socialists or communists .... it means they are different
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#298997 - 02/25/17 12:42 AM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6541
Loc: North San Diego County
Want more rural doctors? Subsidize them, so that is a reasonable economic choice. You can do that by making medical school free if they work in a rural practice for 10 years. Send more through medical school than you actually need because some will quit after 10 years to move to a more lucrative area and some will quit early and chose to pay for it themselves.

It just depends on how much you want blue states to subsidize red states.

We already have done this with nurses and teachers in various programs.

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#298999 - 02/25/17 12:44 AM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 353
Loc: Upstate NY
I have often heard Doctors say that one of the main reasons for going into Medicine, was to be able to protect yourself and your family from other Doctors.
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#299003 - 02/25/17 02:25 AM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: Ujest Shurly]
Phil Hoskins Offline
Administrator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 06/07/04
Posts: 21124
Loc: West Hollywood, CA
Originally Posted By: Ujest Shurly
Originally Posted By: rporter314
First I would not go to a doctor whose primary reason to be a doctor was to make money.



Hate to say this, but accordion to my (now dead) Brother-in-Law (Vice-President of a Hospital in Anne Arundel County MD, Personnel and Budget)all Doctors are in it for the money. Though many also want to do good by the patient, but the money is first.
My experience is general practioners are not so much in it for the money and specialists are.
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#299004 - 02/25/17 02:55 AM Re: A big insurer just quit Obamacare [Re: Phil Hoskins]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 353
Loc: Upstate NY
Quote:
My experience is general practioners are not so much in it for the money and specialists are.


Oh Yes Phil, like all them damn specialists working in academic medical centers making a small fraction of what them "practioners" (whatever they are??) are making! grin

Remember the three rules in criminal law, that are also applicable to Medicine (and most law in my experience)?

I. Get the money up front.
II. Remember it is the client that goes to jail, not the attorney.
III. Get the money up front

For Doctors simply substitute II: Remember it is the patient that dies, not the Physician!
Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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