Current Topics
Consequences when Dog catches car
by TatumAH
03:56 AM
Authoritarian to Authoritarian
by pdx rick
02:46 AM
South African hunter WAS killed by a crocodile, DNA tests on human remains found
by pdx rick
02:46 AM
Carried away: how the Carl Vinson's canceled port visit sparked a global crisis
by Ken Condon
09:14 PM
No Reform Without the Forms
by pondering_it_all
08:36 PM
3 word story game
by TatumAH
03:54 PM
What happened to you white people?
by Jeffery J. Haas
03:12 AM
Bill Oreilly shakes hands with Pope Francis in Rome
by pondering_it_all
02:02 AM
The Deeper Scandal of That Brutal United Video
by Ken Condon
01:25 AM
Worst Case Scenario
by TatumAH
04/22/17 06:27 PM
Trump and Russia
by pdx rick
04/22/17 06:07 PM
Round Table for April 2017
by NW Ponderer
04/22/17 05:25 PM
On Earth Day, a necessary defense of science from Trump
by NW Ponderer
04/22/17 05:22 PM
Sanity
by jgw
04/21/17 09:24 PM
Brexit Eve
by pondering_it_all
04/21/17 08:25 PM
Forum Stats
6220 Members
57 Forums
15874 Topics
274297 Posts

Max Online: 282 @ 05/29/08 05:08 AM
Google Adsense
Page 1 of 17 1 2 3 ... 16 17 >
Topic Options
#298754 - 02/15/17 07:32 PM Trump and Russia
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


This Russian-connetion thing is not going well for our forty-fifth President. NSA captured conversations between the Trump people and Russia a full year before the election.






_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#298755 - 02/15/17 07:36 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299246 - 03/05/17 06:51 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


...and the Trump-Russian connections thicken:

New Development on the Michael Cohen 'Peace Plan' Meeting
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299247 - 03/05/17 06:56 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299251 - 03/05/17 03:13 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Often overlooked by media is the underlying basis for even looking at Russian connections and its meaning.

If Mr Trump had taken the standard arms length approach to Russia, I suspect there would not have been much investigation into any connections which for the most part can easily be explained as routine government business. However, when Mr Trump appeared to be in a bromance with Putin it raises questions about the relationship and when all the contacts are considered in that context, we have questions which matter.

Speculating on possible results of connections, we have the most odious possibility Mr Trump would be willing to allow Russian intervention in Eastern Europe without US retaliation. The evidence which supports that possibility is not hysterical as conservatives and Republicans would have people believe, but is based on facts when considered in the broader context of a changed Republican platform and the many ties between Russians and Trump associates.

The bottom line is we do not know the extent of Russianization of the Trump administration.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#299252 - 03/05/17 04:50 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13700
Loc: Florida
This just in...

At least 7 Russian officials have turned up dead since Election Day. Here's what we know.

Quote:
Vitaly Churkin, Russia's ambassador to the United Nations, died suddenly in New York earlier this week, apparently of cardiac arrest.

Churkin, Russia's envoy to the U.N. since 2006, reportedly became ill at his Russian Mission office in Manhattan on Monday and died at New York-Presbyterian Hospital. He was to turn 65 the next day.

The New York City medical examiner said more study is required into the cause and manner of Churkin's death, though federal law enforcement has said it does not believe there was any foul play.

Still, because Russia is no stranger to political murders, the sudden death of a Russian official automatically raises suspicion. So while Churkin may indeed have died of natural causes, some have noted that it follows several other recent deaths of Russian officials, all occurring suddenly or under mysterious circumstances — including a man who is believed to have helped former M16 spy Christopher Steele compile his bombshell dossier on Donald Trump's links to Russia.
source

It's from Feb 27 but it's the first I've heard of it.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#299253 - 03/05/17 04:57 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
If Trump had "seriously thought", an oxymoron for his cognition, about running for public office he would have taken more care to conceal his dirty doings. Clearly he did not understand, or misunderestimated, the tenacity of investigative journalism. All he would have to have done would be to hire a shop to do a first pass opposition research on himself. Of course he is way too paranoid to trust anyone to compile such a dossier.

I think he just wanted the bragging points and attention and it got out of hand. He never figured he would get this much screwtiny, as who go to the expense and trouble to do deep international background on an early looser in a primary of 17 colorful candidates.

Now there is a desperate, and likely futile, attempt to retroactively cover up all of that large scale, low hanging fruit, much of which is almost certainly highly criminal money laundering for the Russian oligarchs.

RE:
Quote:
rporter314: Speculating on possible results of connections, we have the most odious possibility Mr Trump would be willing to allow Russian intervention in Eastern Europe without US retaliation.


I am not too worried about this now as I suspect that similarly to his modus operandi of dealing with other contractors, he will simply stiff them. He is a master bait and switch artist. Now that it is exposed his quid pro quo options are severely limited, and he can now earnestly claim to his Rusky friends: I would love to help you all I can, but my hands are tied. They could still destroy him in a flash, but he is betting/hoping that even weakened, they view him as a still useful asset/idiot. The Russians are obviously worried by this unpredictability, that now seems likely worse than the Hillary demon that they knew and understood. What will it take for them to play their high trump card and anoint Prez Pence? Time will tell!

I doubt that Russian golden sexploitation blackmail would worry him, as Pussy-Grabber in chief snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in that scandal, that has immunized him from paraphilia related damage. Even the incestuous and pedophilia angles are shockingly ignored by the true believers. In fact, these otherwise exclusionary characteristic, have strengthened his appeal to the "mens rights" nut/whack jobs, and inexplicably many women have, with sincere so-called Christian values, turned the other cheek.

Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/05/17 05:00 PM)
Edit Reason: paraphilia speeling and ADDaTat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299264 - 03/05/17 10:42 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
This just in...

At least 7 Russian officials have turned up dead since Election Day. Here's what we know..

5'7" Vlad is a regular killing machine. gobsmacked
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299267 - 03/06/17 12:12 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


So Mark Levin goes on Fox and Friends Sunday and says there is "overwhelming evidence" that BAMZ!!! spied on Trump at Trump Towers:



President* Trump sees the Levin interview and loses his sh!t and goes on a Tweeting frenzy:



Then James Comey Asks Justice Dept. to Reject Trump’s Wiretapping Claim

I can't believe we have a POTUS that acts like some drama queen and flies off the handle when he is slightly provoked. rolleyes
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299268 - 03/06/17 12:39 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
conservatives believe The Great One is a Constitutional scholar ... I listen to him occasionally and he impresses me as an idiot => he argues the Constitution and then proclaims Pres Obama is a secret Muslim (without benefit of any facts)

Of course he also says only conservatives have the intellect to discern facts and make logical arguments ... I have to conclude he goes brain dead occasionally
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#299269 - 03/06/17 01:08 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I have to conclude he goes brain dead occasionally


Occasionally?? There is no resurrection from brain death!
Which reminds me, what did folks around here give up for lent?
I gave up any hope that there was any sanity in the GOP.
It will not likely improve after Easter. I am reading Revelations and preparing for end-times, as best I can without accepting the Gospel!
Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299270 - 03/06/17 01:24 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
Don't forget, Murdoch is NOT a fan of Trump. He made his peace with Trump but he's probably enjoying all of this, at our expense, of course.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299271 - 03/06/17 01:26 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
Preliminary reports say that Trump booted Bannon and Priebus off Air Force One before heading down one more time to Mar-A-Lago.

ABC NEWS LINK

Quote:
As President Trump was in the air aboard Marine One headed for Air Force One on the tarmac at Joint Base Andrews, a last-minute phone call was made from the West Wing to the team on board the president’s plane with a directive to remove Priebus and Bannon from the manifest, sources said. They would not be coming to the Sunshine State.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299273 - 03/06/17 03:21 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Here is a timely update suggesting that we should be prepared for a Hail Mary play tomorrow, in a desperate attempt to distract/derail/deturd the Russian Investigation. You can smell their fear! I am hoping that it is the right time to resurrect that old and beloved thread, based on Bill Maher's memorial to the fallen, yes, Farewell to Douchebags1 I got a little list, and they'll none of them be missed.
Note the list of players:Priebus, Bannon, White House counsel Don McGahn, and Sessions among others. Sessions is particularly notable because he wasn’t scheduled to make the trip but was added to the roster at the last minute, and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly who will likely be in charge of implementing the plan that will be known as: la Noche de Cristal.

Beware of cornered narcissists with power! Nothing is more dangerous!!
Tat

Donald Trump panics over Russia: Jeff Sessions, Priebus, Bannon all huddled at Mar-a-Lago
Quote:



Just hours after Donald Trump tried to create his most absurd distraction from the Russia scandal to date by falsely insisting that President Obama had been spying on him, it turns out Trump’s entire team is now in panic mode. In fact Trump’s entire senior team is huddled at his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida as we speak, as they to figure out what their Russia endgame might be.

The Donald Trump advisers huddled at Mar-a-Lago today include White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, White House chief strategist Stephen Bannon, White House counsel Don McGahn, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions among others. Sessions is particularly notable because he wasn’t scheduled to make the trip but was added to the roster at the last minute. But at this late stage in the Russia scandal, what options do the Trump team even have left? None of them are good.

One option is for Jeff Sessions to resign, in a last ditch attempt at staving off the Russia scandal. Dana Boente, seemingly now a Trump loyalist despite having been originally appointed by Obama, would then presumably become acting Attorney General, giving him control over the Trump-Russia investigation. But even sacrificing Sessions seems unlikely to stave off the heat for long. Sacrificing Michael Flynn last month did little to stop the bleeding.

Another option is for Donald Trump to launch a controversial major new initiative on Monday, in the hope of creating a distraction from Russia. That may explain why Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly is also at Mar-a-Lago right now, as any expansion of Trump’s anti-immigrant bender would go through DHS. But even such a stunt might only take the heat off Russia for a day or two.

As it is, Donald Trump is already so cornered that he’s now falsely accusing President Obama of wiretapping him on a “Nixon/Watergate” level. That’s an absurd and desperate last stab at trying to survive a scandal which Trump seems to be figuring out he can’t survive.


Edited by TatumAH (03/06/17 03:27 AM)
Edit Reason: edit Spanish
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299278 - 03/06/17 04:44 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Originally Posted By: pdx rick
So Mark Levin goes on Fox and Friends Sunday and says there is "overwhelming evidence" that BAMZ!!! spied on Trump at Trump Towers:


laugh

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299279 - 03/06/17 05:03 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:
Donald Trump is already so cornered that he’s now falsely accusing President Obama of wiretapping him on a “Nixon/Watergate” level. That’s an absurd and desperate last stab at trying to survive a scandal which Trump seems to be figuring out he can’t survive.

Good!

Click to reveal..
Fvck that mother fvcker!


mad
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299287 - 03/06/17 08:49 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299288 - 03/06/17 09:36 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

So this gal named 'Becca wrote this little diddy on her blog:

Quote:
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, well-placed Russians started stealing many billions of dollars worth of Russia’s assets, from its natural resources to its hard cash. Looking for places to park their money, a whole lot of them decided on condos in Trump Tower, buying like 10 each for made up amounts of money, because who can determine what real estate is “really” worth?

His personal attorney, Michael Cohen, owns an ethanol company in the Ukraine.

He partnered for years with a convicted felon (a dude who stabbed another dude in the face with the broken stem of a margarita glass!) who was mobbed up DEEP in both Russia and Little Italy — and then, once Russian investments had saved him from bankruptcy (again), said he barely knew him.

And his entire cabinet, with the possible exception of Ben Carson, has bizarre ties to Russian banks (new Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, for instance, was until two days ago (FR MAR 3rd 2017) the vice-chair of the Bank of Cyprus, which launders Russian money) and Russian oil companies. Jeff Sessions was hosting dinner for and having white papers written for him by a fellow named Richard Burt, who was lobbying for Gazprom and sits on the board of … Alfa Bank.

Even Betsy DeVos, that nice dumb lady ready to dismantle public education in the US, has weird ties to Alpha Bank (though that one seems thin!) — AND the rogue elements in the FBI who were leaking to her brother, Erik Prince (yes, of Blackwater), that Anthony Weiner was going to be arrested before the election, right before Anthony Weiner’s computer got turned over to the FBI.


That's some really good dirt, 'Becca!! cool
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299327 - 03/07/17 05:14 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Golem Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 3455
Loc: Orange County, California, USA



Top
#299329 - 03/07/17 05:41 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Golem]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Speaking about precious bodily fluids, this I think is the origin of that phrase used in this context!
Tat




And here is the original so-called "Money Shot" rolleyes
Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/07/17 05:49 PM)
Edit Reason: ADDing Money Shot
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299331 - 03/07/17 07:07 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California

FORBES:Trump's Wiretap Tweets Raise Risk of Impeachment

This is a defining moment, perhaps THE defining moment.
No, I don't mean Trump's idiotic tweets, I mean the idea, the notion, that this nation seems to be prepared to IGNORE the salient points put forth by Noah Feldman, to wit:

Quote:
"In a rule of law society, government allegations of criminal activity must be followed by proof and prosecution. If not, the government is ruling by innuendo.
Shadowy dictatorships can do that because there is no need for proof. Democracies can’t."


What Noah Feldman says demands another question:
Is the United States of America still a nation of laws or have we now become a nation of men instead.

The points made here raise, perhaps for the final time, whether America is a nation of laws or a nation of men.
If America has now proven to be the latter, then there is nothing left worth saving.

And so far, I do not SEE ONE DAMN THING that supports the argument that we are still a nation of laws.
So don't take the easy way out and just accuse me of being Debbie Downer, or buying into hopelessness.
At the very worst, I am operating on a surplus of caution, preparing for the worst while still hoping for the best.
And for me, that concept of "best" merely consists of a revised definition of what America really is.


(I would define Pennsylvania as being red at this time, not blue.)



I COULD choose to just cut out Canada and call Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, California, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota and Illinois "America" and call the rest "Trumplandia" like it shows on my map.

Or I could include Canada in the hopes that Canada might be interested in acquiring some 130 to 140 million new hardworking taxpayers and a helluva lot of natural resources and high tech capabilities.

Either of those are extremely hopeful positions, the former being much more "apple pie American", the latter being a pragmatic and more economically responsible approach to future prosperity.

But the one thing I do KNOW in my heart and soul, is that it's a fact that Trumplandia WILL NEVER EVER make peace with the above parts of the country. They haven't in the 160 years since the Civil War. It's never going to happen.
I love all my dear friends who live down there but I see them as wonderful people who live in a foreign country.
I respect their decision to live there.
I tried my best to BE one of those people for thirteen years and it wasn't enough to measure up to the values that are held dear by a majority of people down there. I was still a Yankee as far as most people were concerned.
Thus, I was still, even after thirteen years, a foreigner.
I've just come to the conclusion that maybe those people were right.

I am no longer interested in trying to save some idiots in Kentucky who are determined to re-segregate schools,
(KY House Bill 151) or save health care for people who voted for the man who is determined to take it away from them, or fight to save a river two thousand miles from my home which had just cleaned up it's oil spills just in time for a law to be passed that allows the same companies to spill even more oil into it all over again, or try to stop a war that apparently GOD TOLD some wealthy men they had every right to start, or hold back gerrymandering which is bound to become enshrined in a state constitution should two more Republican legislators win their seats in the next three weeks, or fight to save overtime in a state that had already taken it from me ten years ago anyway.
We can get rid of Trump. We could get rid of FORTY Trumps.
Oh gee, forty down and forty million left to go?

That is the country they WANT.
I'm saving my humanity for protecting my family, my friends and my loved ones.

It's not that I suddenly hate my country.
I loved America. That country doesn't exist anymore except for a few small pockets with a giant cesspool in the middle.
It's just gone, plain and simple.

Maybe a new America will rise from the ashes, but probably not in my lifetime. Maybe, with a little luck, in my kids lifetimes.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299334 - 03/07/17 07:17 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
call the rest "Trumplandia"


It already has a well-established name: Dumbf**kistan

These maps have been around for years.

Top
#299335 - 03/07/17 07:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

I could live with this new map. I have more in common with the folks in blue on this map, than I do with the red middle.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299336 - 03/07/17 07:48 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
call the rest "Trumplandia"


It already has a well-established name: Dumbf**kistan

These maps have been around for years.


Yeah, and sometimes they get revised a wee bit.
And this time, it is starting to look like this map is in earnest.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299360 - 03/08/17 10:10 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



...and we should be a wall along our eastern and southern borders keeping those nasty red-state deplorables out.

smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299363 - 03/08/17 03:03 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Vote data 2016
Quote:
Projections from the United States Elections Project show that there were 231,556,622 Americans eligible to vote, but 138,884,643 voted. That means that 40 percent didn’t vote, while 60 percent did. The voter turnout will likely increase as the popular vote continues to be counted.

Voting Eligible Population Ballots: 138,884,643 (60 percent)
Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote: 92,671,979 (40 percent
Voter Eligible Population Total: 231,556,622

It might be fun to divide the U.S. up into red states and blue states based on which went for whom (the map is somewhat inaccurate, btw - I know that NM went blue), but remember that in all of them there are many voters of both hues.

When I was a yoot up in Idaho, it was a SOLIDLY blue state based on large numbers of blue collar workers (timber, mining, farming). I vaguely remember the reddening of the mountain bluebird state as outside money from energy corporations (mainly Texas based) poured in to back Republican candidates, buying their votes on national big energy issues - I also remember an influx of wealthy 1st world Californians seeking seclusion and refuge in 3rd world Idaho. (One could be middle-class in CA, but rich in ID on the same money). With all the money came waves of gooey propaganda that gradually converted the blue collar workers from hating the oligarchs to hating liberals and environmentalists who were trying to protect what was left of the now heavily logged, mined, industrially farmed, and pigshit polluted landscape. The propagandists spun that effort to protect the environment into an assault on jobs. Voila! Idaho became a red state. The jobs went away anyhow, because of mechanization, depletion, and economics; but the New World View, created by corporate spin, continues to dominate in many peoples' minds.

You all know how Trump is crazy, right? He's delusional, narcissistic, self-absorbed, all too ready to believe rumors and innuendo - these are also the qualities that make people vulnerable to unethical salesmen. We all suffer from these frailties, to varying degrees. It's my opinion that the right wing suffers from them more, both in politicians who take advantage of voters' gullibility, and the gullibility of voters. But on the flip side, this human condition also makes it extremely difficult for top quality politicians (there are a few, and many more who would like to be) to advance truly good ideas (note the pragmatic resistance to Bernie Sanders displayed here at RR during the primaries).

Back to the voter numbers and the map... Trump was elected with quite a small number of votes. Some big fat guesses are that more than half of his votes came from gullible folks (see the Idaho story above) who suckered more for his sales pitch than for Clinton's. Some portion of his votes were from people who have a shallow ideological notion that they would prosper more with a Trump administration (in various way; money, racial dominance, religious dominance, power, etc.).

The potential vote number for the "liberal" way were huge, but the sales pitch neither turned out the apathetic, nor stimulated the dutiful. The undecideds who didn't vote (40% of all eligible voters) and half of Trump's voters (25% of eligible votes) equals 52% of the eligible vote that could have gone Left that didn't, if the Left only had a pitch that hooked people. Add to that the 27% that she did get (79%) and you can see that the nation is not that red!

Why is it so hard, then? Partly, it is because the Left is generally not comfortable with the snake-oil "alternative facts", propaganda, fear-mongering, and hyperbole that the Trumpests are so good at. This is not a character flaw, but it is a competitive disadvantage when the average human condition is one of mental laziness and gullibility.

The solution? Frankly, I don't know. It is not a natural thing for ethical people to toss ethics aside in order to "win", no matter how pragmatic the reason. But, as the Logtroll is fond of saying, "You can't solve a problem until you understand what the problem is..."
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#299365 - 03/08/17 03:28 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am a little disappointed as I was hoping you would say you have a solution looking for a problem.

I know it is not politically correct to mention such things but something stands out to me. Whether there is any real basis for this observation, I don't know, and I don't know if it makes any difference.

It struck me that a number of conservatives are 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of immigrants. What do the interlopers know about America and our democratic traditions? Maybe Americans have forgotten what it means to be American. Does the Tocquevillian notion of American exceptionalism even apply in a modern world?

Education is the key. "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." (paraphrase of Pres Jefferson). We have fallen into two broad camps of the educated and the ignorant, of fear and hopeful optimism. The specter of fascism has reared its head only because fear and ignorance are tolerated, endorsed and elevated to a virtue.

I do not care what ones conclusions are, but they must be immersed in logical, objective thought based on facts. We have entered a critical inflection zone in which a continuation down this path will guarantee the dissolution of democracy in America. Will we have real patriots willing to fight against this tyranny or will Americans quietly acquiesce to the wishes of a dictator?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#299367 - 03/08/17 04:15 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Education is the key. ...
Will we have real patriots willing to fight against this tyranny or will Americans quietly acquiesce to the wishes of a dictator?

I have these questions:

What does this education look like, and how is it accomplished?

What does the fighting look like?

I am all for good general education, and better educated people statistically seem to be more rational thinkers. But how do we get representatives who will work for better general education? There needs to be a successful sales pitch (another form of education) developed for this that will get the positive attention of the zombie voters.

I am ambivalent about the "fighting" angle. My assessment is the the Rightie activists are better fighters, because they are unethical. It appears that having vastly greater numbers of protesters is an effective optic, but the violent factions need to be suppressed. The most effective turnout strategy is to vote, as the title fight is the election.

One essential item needed for a top sales pitch is to have it delivered by a top salesman. Hillary was not a top salesman, though I observed that she was getting better at it. But learning to be a top salesman is no substitute for charisma. Especially in today's pervasive visual media world.

For some reason, conservatives don't seem to need as much charisma. Neither Bushes had much - Gore and Kerry were total duds. I would not have said that Trump has much, but I think he has plenty with some kinds of people - it's "negative" charisma. Carter was low on it, Reagan very high, Bill Clinton very high, and Obama very high (but sporadic). I suggest that charisma be the top characteristic of the next liberal candidate.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#299368 - 03/08/17 04:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Vote data 2016
Quote:
Projections from the United States Elections Project show that there were 231,556,622 Americans eligible to vote, but 138,884,643 voted. That means that 40 percent didn’t vote, while 60 percent did. The voter turnout will likely increase as the popular vote continues to be counted.

Voting Eligible Population Ballots: 138,884,643 (60 percent)
Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote: 92,671,979 (40 percent
Voter Eligible Population Total: 231,556,622

It might be fun to divide the U.S. up into red states and blue states based on which went for whom (the map is somewhat inaccurate, btw - I know that NM went blue), but remember that in all of them there are many voters of both hues.


That said, it's easy to figure out what the majority is in a lot of them. New Mexico might be starting to turn purple but the GOP still runs most of the city and county government, and there is still enough of a Right Wing majority to keep them in there.

In the end, this is still a football game, whether we want it to be or not, so in the end, either the Blue Team wins or the Red Team wins. From a football perspective, the map is still somewhat accurate despite all the growing trends.
One thing is clear though. Civil war of some kind is an inevitability because you can get rid of a THOUSAND Trumps but you will still be stuck with all those people who would rather stick needles in their eye than not vote Republican, and the Republicans know this.
They know this because their chief skill lies in targeted messaging and proper investment in focused messaging tools.
They have spent literally billions and when someone spends billions, it's a good bet that at least SOME results are expected.
The result that the GOP expects is quite simply "the dismantling of the administrative state."
I can only think of maybe five Republicans who are willing to voice objections over a statement like that, thus their silence on Bannon's signature line of agitprop equals consent.
The phrase is a highly polished way of saying something much more despicable: the dismantling of liberal democracy in favor of corporate authoritarian theocracy along white supremacist lines and built on a foundation of purist libertarian anarcho-capitalist economics.
They also have spent billions on dismantling education, so that the kind of talk Bannon uses isn't subjected to critical thinking.
That is an INSURANCE policy, and a very long lasting one at that.
It's generational in scope.

I am not a betting man but I will place a bet on a breakup of this country that vaguely resembles the breakup of the USSR some time in the next ten to twenty years, and some sort of resulting internal war type reaction.

And I'd say it's a safe bet that the breakup is probably going to happen along lines vaguely similar to that map, give or take a couple of states here or there.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299371 - 03/08/17 05:32 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
NM is still pretty blue. The dems in the state are plagued with the same problem recently of gubernatorial candidates with low charisma running for office. Our single R Congressman comes from a part of the state that is essentially Texas oil country. The state lege is all blue by pretty solid margins.

Registered voters: 46% D; 31% R

NM political demographics
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#299376 - 03/08/17 06:48 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Us blue-staters took a vote - we don't want New Mexico. Bye Felicias. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299378 - 03/08/17 07:32 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
I don't know about that, Rick.
But the problem is, no way is a land bridge going to be built between NM and the three West Coast states, so New Mexico will still be a slightly blue island in the middle of a red war zone anyway.

Maybe New Mexico and Colorado could try pairing their fortunes together.


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (03/08/17 07:33 PM)
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299399 - 03/09/17 10:30 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.

Top
#299403 - 03/09/17 02:44 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.

Spot on, mate! And his partner is even more spectacular.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#299406 - 03/09/17 04:19 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
What does this education look like, and how is it accomplished?

first let it be noted that based on sociological studies many people are fixed in youth as being either conservative or liberal. On top of that there is a group who possess an irrational fear of government in particular and change in general. Can not address the irrational

I also believe for the most part people can learn the basics of clear logical thought based on facts. This is critical for education. It is a long term project as one must learn what facts are and how to process them.

Quote:
What does the fighting look like?
I look around the world and see varying degrees of violence related to changes in government. America was founded in a revolution. Turkey experienced an attempted coup. Hungary revolted from Russian rule. Any number of countries are in civil war.

In the west we have a long tradition of orderly non-violent transfer of power. It makes sense. Suppose a president assumes some degree of authoritarian power (unitary executive) which borders on the collapse of democracy. Would Americans be sheep and allow the water boarding to begin? Would we allow government to deport Muslims?

I know these are extreme examples but the current occupant of the WH has surrounded himself with people who are purveyors of bigotry and a revolutionary approach to deconstruct government. The one redeeming feature of dictatorship is the ease with which everything can be done without the encumbrances of government interference.

I just had to ask the question as apparently repubicans/conservatives are on board for anything.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#299408 - 03/09/17 05:51 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.


Heh heh heh...Republicans would start slitting their wrists if he decided to run. ROTFMOL
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299410 - 03/09/17 06:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.

Oprah Winfrey is thinking about running too. We'd def get the black and women's vote. Hmm

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
[Heh heh heh...Republicans would start slitting their wrists if he decided to run. ROTFMOL

They'd really be slitting their wrists if Oprah ran. laugh
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299421 - 03/10/17 02:10 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Oprah would be cool, but George has that White and Male thing going for him.

Plus far more celebrity than Trump and women LOVE him. They like and admire Oprah but very few of them have Oprah sex fantasies.

I'm just thinking that if people are dumb enough to vote for celebrities, might as well give them one who is sane and ethical. Of course, Trump is not the first: Think Ronnie and even Eisenhower.

Top
#299476 - 03/11/17 11:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Turns out that Michael Flynn was a foreign agent while working for the Trump campaign, Mike Pence had to know this while he heading the transition team.

Trump was supposedly FOR SHOCKED that his former National Security Adviser Michael "Good Guy" Flynn was a foreign agent - at least that's what the White House said.

AP reports that the Trump transition team was indeed told before the inauguration — sometime between November 8 and January 20 — that Flynn would probably have to register as a traitor foreign agent if he wanted to be national security adviser. That comes from a “White House official and a person with direct knowledge of the discussions." Per the AP:

Quote:
A White House official said Flynn’s personal lawyer contacted Trump transition attorneys before the inauguration about the possible filing as he was being considered for appointment as Trump’s national security adviser. The official said the transition team was not made aware of the filing’s details and Flynn’s related business dealings, and advised Flynn’s lawyer that it was a personal matter they would need to handle. The official was not authorized to discuss private conversations and spoke on condition of anonymity.


***Pffft*** Trump didn't know?!? I call bullsh!t. gobsmacked

Trump's White House can't even figure out how to lie about Flynn being a foreign agent. Sad. coffee

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299516 - 03/12/17 09:52 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
One thing to note: Flynn was a Turkish agent, not Russian. Turkey is in NATO, so technically not an enemy. So "traitor" may be a little far-fetched.

Top
#299518 - 03/13/17 01:51 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
matthew Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 228
Originally Posted By: rporter314
In the west we have a long tradition of orderly non-violent transfer of power. It makes sense. Suppose a president assumes some degree of authoritarian power (unitary executive) which borders on the collapse of democracy. Would Americans be sheep and allow the water boarding to begin? Would we allow government to deport Muslims?

Certainly! They would stampede like sheep into dictatorship and martial law (or its equivalent).

All that is needed is for the Deep State to engineer a Reichstag Fire, or a 9/11 or other incident. Laws and Constitution would be trampled into dust by the mindless herd.

We've already seen it happen with the so-called "Patriot Act."
.
_________________________
Once, weapons were manufactured to fight wars; today, wars are manufactured to sell weapons

No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of Americans

Top
#299669 - 03/17/17 03:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Dr Strangelove Updated

_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299765 - 03/19/17 04:55 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

There is a Wordpress.com website that lists, in esquisite detail with supporting links, 76 connections of Donald J Trump to Russia Oligarchy or Putin himself. It's really quite good.

Trump Watchdog.com

Here are a few examples, minus links. If you want to read the details of the links, go the link provided above.

Quote:
Trump's son in Law is Jared Kushner, the former owner of the Observer. The Observer received the DNC hacks from Guccifer 2.0 who is rumored to be a Russian agent.

Guccifer 2.0 and Roger Stone were apparently in contact up to 16 times during the 2016 campaign.

Jared Kushner’s parents are friends with Netanyahu. Netanyahu has forged an alliance with Putin.

His Chief Strategist is Steve Bannon. Bannon is the CEO of Breitbart, with the Mercer family having majority ownership. The Mercers, along with Bannon are heavily involved in Cambridge Analytica a data gathering firm. Cambridge Analytica’s parent company is SCL Group, which lists Dmitry Firtash as a board member. Breitbart and Bannon have extensive ties to the far right movement in Europe which is also funded by Putin.

His second campaign manager is Paul Manafort. He had to resign in August due to having questionable Russian ties like Dmitry Firtash and the former Ukrainian President. Manafort lives in Trump tower, along with Kellyanne Conway and her husband.

Mike McSherry, former Delegate strategist for the Trump campaign also lobbied for the same Ukrainian presidential candidate as Paul Manafort.

Rick Gates, Manaforts top aid also lobbied for Pro-Putin Ukrainian candidate.

Per Politico, Manafort met with Konstantin Kilimnikmultiple times during the campaign. The first time appears to be in April, maybe when Trump gave that speech? Kilimnik is thought to be part of Russian intelligence.

They worked Oleg Deripaska on investment funds in Ukraine. Firtash worked with Russian Mob Semion Moglivech boss to help Gazprom oversee Natural Gas distribution to Ukraine.

Trump advisor J.D. Gordon is claiming that he was the advisor who had the Ukraine language softened at the Republican National Convention, at the request of Donald Trump.

Kellyanne Conway’s husband has business dealings with the Russian government and deleted tweets about it once Conway was chosen. (Conway, Bannon, and the Mercers are part of the “Council on National Policy” a secretive far right think tank group.)

George Conway represented a firm that bribed the Russian government.

Trump sold his condo to Dmitry Rybolovev, whose private plane keeps showing up where Trump is. Rybolovev is a Russian billionaire with ties to Putin.

There is a Pro-Russian Think tank called the Center for the National Interest (CNI). CNI Board Member Henry Kissinger, former US Diplomat and current Putin confidante, has gotten close to Trump.

Kissinger suggested both Tillerson and KT McFarland to Trump.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299772 - 03/19/17 07:51 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Stop the presses:

Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia Collusion
The Intercept

Quote:
Key Democratic officials are clearly worried about the expectations that have been purposely stoked and are now trying to tamp them down. Many of them have tried to signal that the beliefs the base has been led to adopt have no basis in reason or evidence.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299773 - 03/19/17 07:53 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



...and then there is this as well:

Russian bank tells DOJ mysterious Trump computer connections may have been hacker hoax

Quote:
A Russian bank has reported to U.S. authorities that mysterious communications resumed recently between one of its computers and an email server tied to President Trump’s business empire, and it has developed evidence the new activity may be the work of a hacker trying to create a political hoax, Circa has learned.

Alfa Bank is asking the U.S. Justice Department for help solving the mystery and pledged its full cooperation.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299774 - 03/19/17 07:53 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



Bummer. cry
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299776 - 03/19/17 08:59 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
I'm not one who believes there would be a smoking gun. Remember, these are Russian professionals. Where evidence will connect Trump's minions and Russia are the amateurs, like Mike Flynn, Jared Kushner, or Donald Trump, Jr., who are not sophisticated enough to cover their tracks. Trump, of course, has the ability to stifle any serious investigation by not providing documents, serving up distractions and the support of moral-less sycophants in his administration and Congress.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#299789 - 03/20/17 02:53 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


I'm frustrated NW_P, I see a repeat of the Reagan/W years in our country's future. It sucks. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299792 - 03/20/17 04:11 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


I'm frustrated NW_P, I see a repeat of the Reagan/W years in our country's future. It sucks. Hmm


Maybe you are still blocking on the Bush years! Reagan, who would now be a pinko librul, only invaded Grenada. Bush and Cheney brought the world to catasstrophy that just keeps on giving.

Consider how you think the world would be now, if Gore had been president. Now try to conceive the long term damage inevitable after only a few years of Trump! I cant and dont want to even consider it! Butt, here we are!
I blame Karl Rove and FuxGnus!

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299795 - 03/20/17 05:05 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
...Bush and Cheney brought the world to catasstrophy that just keeps on giving...

Well Cheney did. I never believed that George W was the affable dimwit that many said he was. I always thought it was a con, and that he really was dark, sinister, and soulless man.

Turns out that George W really IS an affable dimwit and it's Cheney (...and Libby) that re-wrote the Intel to get us into a unnecessary war of inconvenience, I learned after viewing the Frontline link above.

Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Consider how you think the world would be now, if Gore had been president.

I actually have, many times. Which is why I don't believe there is a God - no way would a supposed superior and intelligent being allow the Republicans to ever control our government and our lives.

Pretty sure that our world would be a much better and safer place today, had Gore been President instead of W Bush.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299796 - 03/20/17 05:14 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

I don't see Michelle Obama hugging Dick Cheney. Just sayin' Hmm

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299840 - 03/21/17 08:08 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Interesting development:

Quote:
FBI’s Russian-influence probe includes a look at far-right news sites

Operatives for Russia appear to have strategically timed the computercommands, known as "bots," to blitz social media with links to the pro-Trump stories at times when the billionaire businessman was on the defensive in his race against Democrat Hillary Clinton, these sources said.

The bots' end products were largely millions of Twitter and Facebook posts carrying links to stories on conservative internet sites such as Breitbart News and InfoWars, as well as on the Kremlin-backed RTNews and Sputnik News, the sources said. Some of the stories were false or mixed fact and fiction, said the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the bot attacks are part of an FBI-led investigation into a multifaceted Russian operation to influence last year's elections.

- McClatchy News
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299841 - 03/21/17 12:36 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
"I'm not gonna sit here and say, 'I'm not a Russian stooge,' because it's a (expletive) lie."

Noting he had appeared on RT "probably 100 times or more," he said sarcastically, "There's my Russian connection." (Alex Jones)

---Guess what, dumbass: If you're on RT all the time, you ARE a Russian stooge.
RT is the mouthpiece of The Kremlin.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#299853 - 03/21/17 08:12 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Well no, simply BEING on RT a lot may just mean you are in the news. They do want people to watch after all.

But if RT loves you, THEN you are at least a "fellow traveler". Trump may not have been in the direct employ of the Kremlin, but they certainly were headed in the same direction for a very long time and a lot of Russian money ended up in Trump's accounts because so many Russians bought real estate in Trump buildings. In all past decades since the 40's this is exactly the kind of thing the FBI would watch very closely.

I still suspect they have some video of Trump doing nasty stuff, because they try that with everybody of any importance who visits Russia. Maybe it's impact would not be significant since Trump has already bragged about his sexual misadventures with women and teens.

Top
#299860 - 03/22/17 03:03 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
I became increasingly depressed, today, as it became increasingly obvious that Putin won our election. Recent reportage has showed conclusively that the Russian election disruption campaign was orchestrated to deliver, and successfully delivered, Trump the White House in order to disrupt our Democratic institutions, and weaken our position in the world.

No mistake, we are already at war - we just didn't know it. Trump was not legitimately elected, the Republican party colluded in giving that power to Putin, and it will take a MASSIVE effort of political will to right the ship. I doubt we're capable of mustering it.

I'm now curling up in the fetal position with my copy of a Russian-English dictionary to be able to communicate with our new overlords.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#299862 - 03/22/17 04:29 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
I know how you feel! Putin and his crew were mainly motivated by his hatred of Hillary Clinton, and intended to weaken her almost certain Presidency. This hatred was enthusiastically magnified, with exquisite timing, so that many American voters, already uneasy with her, were convinced that anything would be preferable. I saw otherwise sane humans expressing florid hatred for her, and was puzzled by it, but now it is clear brainwashing.

Putin and the boys are no doubt orgasmic, with elation that can only be compared to what Bin Laden felt as he saw on TV, expecting some annoying minor damage to Twin Towers, and seeing total collapse of both.

He may have also realized at that point: 1. Ooops I may have gone too far!
and 2. I am a dead man walking!

Putin has no similar second thoughts, and I doubt if he has anything to fear. This is what is so troubling, along with our realization that the constitution has nothing to remedy an illegitimate win. There is no do-over amendment, but there should be. Otherwise, the lesson learned by the GOP is that there is no downside to traitorous action, and will be bound to repeat it.

I have been considering the amendment and ratification process, and am also reaching for SSRIs. I predict there will never be another ratified amendment or at least not one acceptable to Democrats. Two thirds of House and Senate, and two thirds of state legislatures. Unless, of course in our worst dreams the GOP could repeal the Twenty-Second Amendment.

Cheers
Tat mad
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299863 - 03/22/17 04:53 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I became increasingly depressed, today, as it became increasingly obvious that Putin won our election. Recent reportage has showed conclusively that the Russian election disruption campaign was orchestrated to deliver, and successfully delivered, Trump the White House in order to disrupt our Democratic institutions, and weaken our position in the world.

CONservatives on other sites yammer that there is no evidence that votes were changed.

Because CONservatives so fail at nuance, I explain to them an election can be "hacked" by releasing emails for one side in order to paint that side in a bad light. - which is EXACTLY what happened.


No one ever claimed that votes were altered. Perception was altered.


hack
v. hacked, hack·ing, hacks
a. To alter (a computer program): hacked her text editor to read HTML.
b. To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization.


_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299879 - 03/22/17 07:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Exactly what Comey said under oath.

Quote:
In an influence campaign that the U.S. intelligence community in January said was ordered by Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, hackers working for Russian spy agencies penetrated the computers of the Democratic National Committee in 2015 and 2016, as well as the email accounts of Democratic officials. The material was relayed to WikiLeaks, the intelligence community reported, and the anti-secrecy group launched a series of damaging email releases that began just before the Democratic National Convention last summer and continued through the fall. The Russians’ goal was not only to undermine the legitimacy of the election process but also to harm Clinton’s campaign and boost Trump’s chances of winning, the intelligence community concluded.

“They’ll be back in 2020. They may be back in 2018,” Comey said. “One of the lessons they may draw from this is that they were successful, introducing chaos and discord” into the electoral process.


FBI Director Comey confirms probe of possible coordination between Kremlin and Trump campaign

This is not opinion or fake news. This is testimony under oath before Congress by the director of the FBI.

Top
#299881 - 03/22/17 10:25 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
я только немного говорю по-русски

I may be able to stumble around a little, temporizing as I try to learn Mandarin ... I don;t know who he will sell out to first

You are correct, in that the effort to set this right will require a level of political will not seen since 1860 and it is made even more difficult with the deep political divide.

The seemingly prescient dystopian novels from the 50's and 60's may have come true.

Hold Fast
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#299882 - 03/22/17 10:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Я только немного говорю по-русски??
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299883 - 03/22/17 10:47 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
You need to ask Phil for a decoder ring...
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#299884 - 03/22/17 10:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
My orphan Annie decoder ring asks: Do you speak Tiger?
Tat
Tiger Translate


Edited by TatumAH (03/22/17 11:02 PM)
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299885 - 03/23/17 12:59 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Well wasn't today fun kids?

Nunes running interference - possibly leaking classified information, Schiff "more than circumstantial", Manaforts 2005 help Russia Manifesto, and CNNs potential coordination between trump campaign and hackers.

Also brietbart under investigation for Russian ties.



Edited by Schlack (03/23/17 01:00 AM)
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#299886 - 03/23/17 01:02 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Ohh also Wall street journal editorial board hitting hard against trump for his, well speaking trumpian.

Is it my birthday or something?
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#299887 - 03/23/17 02:24 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
No Birthday, but maybe a delayed St.Patty's day gift! Sorry, but we are out of gin.
Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#299920 - 03/23/17 11:38 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
It was only Monday (3 days ago) that Director Comey exploded Trump's wire tap lie....
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#299925 - 03/24/17 01:40 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I really want to see the paranoid psychotic, Roger Stone, testifying about the "Deep State" and their plans to kill him.

Or what about the goofy Carter Page as he begins talking to himself.

Or Gen Flynn, the great American hero, consummate paranoid Islamophobe, testifying about the "Deep State" and why they got everything wrong about the 1.3B Muslims who are out to get everyone.

Or Manafort. Just a businessman innocently connected to Russian power circles.

Taken as a whole, I see a good movie in 2 years ... The Real Manchurians
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#299969 - 03/25/17 09:08 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Oh my!! Trump's bff at The Enquirer, Michael Pecker, just threw Michael Flynn under the bus:



Wonder what that is all about? Is Flynn gonna turn states evidence against the Orange Clown™...erm, President Trump - and Trump caught wind and this is his pre-emptive strike?!? Inquiring minds want to know! laugh
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299970 - 03/25/17 09:14 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
The Enquirer is such a load of crap these days. Last week their cover story was about Obama's trial for wiretapping. Don't their readers ever wonder why nothing "reported" ever turns out to be true? I guess they take there modus operendi from Trump.

And Trump didn't catch Flynn, he hired him!

Top
#299971 - 03/25/17 09:15 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
...And Trump didn't catch Flynn, he hired him!

Details, details, to the Trump faithful. coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#299972 - 03/25/17 03:29 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 159
Loc: Michigan, USA
The beginnings of another Joe McCarthy episode. How many day till impeachment?

The current administration has all the earmarks of a failed Presidency and not even a hundred days yet LOL
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

Top
#300077 - 03/28/17 12:15 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Ujest Shurly]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Report: judge-granted FISA warrant defined Donald Trump as a Russian agent of influence
Report: judge-granted FISA warrant defined Donald Trump as a Russian agent of influence

Now that Congressman Devin Nunes has announced on live television this week that someone in the White House is under surveillance, and now that Boris Epshteyn has abruptly resigned from the White House in the fallout from it, Mensch is confirming that Epshteyn was one of the four people named in the warrant. But it’s one of the other three names that sets off the biggest alarms.

In addition to Boris Epshteyn, the other three people in the Trump campaign who were named in the FISA warrant were Carter Page, Paul Manafort, and Donald Trump himself. For these four men to have been named in the FISA warrant granted by the judge, they would need to have been considered Russian agents, or Russian agents of influence.


Quote:
Four and a half months ago, former British Parliament member and current political journalist Louise Mensch reported that she had an inside source confirming a FISA eavesdropping warrant which covered the Donald Trump’s campaign ties to Russia. It was met with skepticism by some at the time, but events have since unfolded to vindicate her original reporting and sourcing. Now Mensch is finally able to reveal the four Trump campaign people covered in the warrant – and Donald Trump himself is one of them.

As Mensch reported at the time, a judge issued the warrant against two Russian banks for alleged money laundering, not against any individual people – but four people from the Trump campaign were named within that warrant (source: Heat Street). Now that Congressman Devin Nunes has announced on live television this week that someone in the White House is under surveillance, and now that Boris Epshteyn has abruptly resigned from the White House in the fallout from it, Mensch is confirming that Epshteyn was one of the four people named in the warrant. But it’s one of the other three names that sets off the biggest alarms.

In addition to Boris Epshteyn, the other three people in the Trump campaign who were named in the FISA warrant were Carter Page, Paul Manafort, and Donald Trump himself. For these four men to have been named in the FISA warrant granted by the judge, they would need to have been considered Russian agents, or Russian agents of influence.

In other words, back in October, a federal judge concluded that the FBI had sufficient evidence that Donald Trump was a (witting or unwitting) “agent of influence” of the Russian government with regard to Russian money laundering.
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300111 - 03/28/17 06:16 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Spag-hetti Offline
member

Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 1534
Loc: Middle, USA
America and Russia have one thing in common -- a lot of people in the streets protesting. I suppose Trump is watching the goings on in Russia, looking for tips on how a real leader handles protesters.
_________________________
Just a Missouri school teacher ... stubborn as a mule and addicted to logic.

Top
#300120 - 03/28/17 10:12 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Nunes 3 stooges attempt at stonewalling continues. I wont be suprised in the slightest if he shows up on TV with the remains of a custard pie on his face.

WaPo playing a blinder:

WaPo: WH tries to muzzle Sally Yates
WH: We would love sally to testify
WaPO: erm heres the letters you sent trying to stop her

Boom.

House meetings cancelled, Yates apparently to testify in Senate Ctte.

1st republican comes out demanding Nunes recuse himself... Jared linked to Shady Russian Banks. Things are getting hotter and faster! I got blueballed for 6 years with Bush (Phrasing). Please dont let it happen again.

This on top of the wet fish slap in the face of trumpcare last week.

As the bottom feeders in 4 chan would say: TOP KEK.


Edited by Schlack (03/28/17 10:37 PM)
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300121 - 03/28/17 10:14 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Also:

_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300124 - 03/28/17 11:22 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
My initial impression was that the Russian thing was overblown. I no longer think so. The desperation with which the Trump administration is trying to prevent the investigation indicates SOMETHING is going on, and it doesn't look good.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300127 - 03/29/17 12:38 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
... and it doesn't look good.

Or does it? coffee
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#300175 - 03/29/17 11:42 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
20 witnesses to testify in front of the Senate intel Ctte. 5 tomorrow publicly.

I'm 50/50 on whether the stonewalling will continue in the Senate.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300179 - 03/30/17 02:26 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3435
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
If the stonewalling don't continue, the Boss will know who needs to be shown the door. And that right quick.
_________________________
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues - AB Breivik

Top
#300190 - 03/30/17 05:03 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Irked]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300191 - 03/30/17 05:04 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Irked]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Here’s what we’ve learned from the Senate hearing on Russia so far -WaPo.

The Senate Intelligence Committee wants to avoid the partisanship we've seen in the House intelligence committee.

Russia has a history of meddling in other countries' affairs.

Some Russian interference techniques are easier to spot than others.

This isn’t just about the U.S. and Russia.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300201 - 03/30/17 09:35 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
This may be the final nail for Nunes: White House aides shared intelligence files with Nunes. At least three or four news outlets have now reported this, including this link from FOX.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300202 - 03/30/17 10:14 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
sooo .... going back to Spicer's question, why would the WH release the reports to Rep Nunes so Nunes could report them to the WH?

Is it the Keystone Kops or a highly sophiscated [sic] intelligence apparat?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300205 - 03/30/17 10:35 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13700
Loc: Florida
Keystone Cops.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#300206 - 03/30/17 10:40 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Originally Posted By: rporter314
sooo .... going back to Spicer's question, why would the WH release the reports to Rep Nunes so Nunes could report them to the WH?

Is it the Keystone Kops or a highly sophiscated [sic] intelligence apparat?


It seems to be a physical manifestation of the Gish Gallop
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300207 - 03/30/17 10:44 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Part 2 of the hearing a lot more technical detail on the how. Not as explosive as part 1.

If only Ma_Russian were here to provide some much needed discussion.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300208 - 03/30/17 10:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300212 - 03/31/17 12:05 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
so .... would one say Hannity's Litany of Lies is a Gish Gallop or is alliteration a little too much
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300213 - 03/31/17 12:15 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I have not read the article and will probably wait a while to check the developer solution.

Has Gen Flynn's attorney advised Flynn he may have committed crimes? Does he have something to offer? Maybe the story of Gulen's rendition was true? Are even more people implicated? Turkey is a non-Russian actor. Did Rep Nunes see some incidental collection of conversations with Turkish folks which implicate the WH?

I was going to write a political thriller but my fiction was too tame.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300223 - 03/31/17 12:43 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Rumour has it that the FBI has refused the offer!
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300224 - 03/31/17 01:03 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Would not that mean the FBI has everything Gen Flynn has to offer?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300225 - 03/31/17 03:50 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Is it time for Nunes to be firmly planted into the Douchebadg slot, or do we need a poll with a 2/3 majority. With things moving so fast I forgot to confirm the Ryan care bill here after opening the douchebag file on 3/17.

Many jobs and positions that require special skills have various certification needed as prerequisites, though there are often grandfather clauses allowing proven job experiences to take the place of actual certifications. This WH crew and many Representative failed to take :Coverup 101! Nunez never learned this on the job, as the GOP did nothing during the Obama years, so cover up skills were never finely honed, or became atrophic through disuse.

Repeating Benghazi or Emails makes cerebral neuron shrink like Jerky.

Tat

Quote:

#299657 - 03/17/17 02:01 AM Re: A Farewell to Douchebags 2006

I am warming up this thread so that the RyanCare bill will feel comfy when it arrives soon. Susan Collins just denounced the bill publicly, 10 teaparty types, think it's to liberal, and Corker told the house that they could kiss their assets goodbye, if the send it to the Senate. Not to mention, but I will that Chris Matthews just coined a new name for spicer. He called him the new Baghdad Bob!

Greger was right, that this is getting amusing/entertaining!
Tat

#299930 - 03/24/17 09:52 AM Re: A Farewell to Douchebags 2006
I'm making a reservation here for Davin Nunes who has doomed his own chairmanship of the Oxymoronic so-called House of Reprehensibles "INTELLIGENCE" committee. He blundered so badly and publicly that many are asking how did this (need a term to describe this), (moron will have to serve as a working handle till consensus is achieved), end up as chairman of a previously important committee?
#299657 - 03/17/17 02:01 AM Re: A Farewell to Douchebags 2006

I am warming up this thread so that the RyanCare bill will feel comfy when it arrives soon. Susan Collins just denounced the bill publicly, 10 teaparty types, think it's to liberal, and Corker told the house that they could kiss their assets goodbye, if the send it to the Senate. Not to mention, but I will that Chris Matthews just coined a new name for spicer. He called him the new Baghdad Bob!

Greger was right, that this is getting amusing/entertaining!
Tat

#299930 - 03/24/17 09:52 AM Re: A Farewell to Douchebags 2006
I'm making a reservation here for Davin Nunes who has doomed his own chairmanship of the Oxymoronic so-called House of Reprehensibles "INTELLIGENCE" committee. He blundered so badly and publicly that many are asking how did this (need a term to describe this), (moron will have to serve as a working handle till consensus is achieved), end up as chairman of a previously important committee?
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300226 - 03/31/17 03:55 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Here's the thing about Flynn's offer and demand: he's the biggest fish so far. Remember Oliver North? He got transactional immunity, lied anyway, and his convictions were eventually thrown out even though that testimony was not used against him. The FBI doesn't want to go through that again.

Trump's morning tweet, however, may be a signal to his toady Nunes to make the offer even though no one else would. He could be doing what George HW Bush did with Cap Weinberger - he pardoned him so that he could never testify against Bush for his role in Iran-contra. Notorious Presidential Pardons - TIME. Prosecutors were livid.

We don't need Flynn's testimony. We're more likely to be convicting him. This is getting deep and ugly, fast.

_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300227 - 03/31/17 04:11 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I have not read the article and will probably wait a while to check the developer solution.

I was going to write a political thriller but my fiction was too tame.


Developer solution is useless, if fixative solution is used first. No silver emulsion, no image, latent or otherwise.

Darkroom skills like dodging and burning have become political terms. I was ready to release my get rich darkroom invention, the darkroom light clapper, when digital killed the darkroom market forever.

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300240 - 03/31/17 10:03 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Do we have any facts to "fix"????

So far we have Gen Flynn had connections to Russians of unknown legality and he wants immunity of some kind. We can speculate using some of the new degrees of separation flow charts connecting a wide variety of Trump associates with Russians of varying kinds and we can add an intriguing story about illegal rendition.

NWP:: of course the Contra story is always on my mind. Why would anyone believe Gen Flynn would not lie or has already made a deal with Mr Trump. This is a kin to reporters who continue to say surveillance could not have been done because someone had to have a warrant .... unless of course it was illegal surveillance which they never mention.

This machine has so many moving parts Rube Goldberg would be proud
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300243 - 03/31/17 11:50 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
I don't see why this is such a big deal. If they have probable cause they get a warrant. If they have a warrant then they investigate. This is what the FBI and other law enforcement agencies are supposed to do! It is not partisan and it's not even political. If Donald Trump was doing something illegal they are supposed to catch him, even if he's running for President.

Some of his "accusations" just make him seem more guilty. Not to mention the botched Nunes fiasco. It's sort like watching The Three Stooges trying to cover up a pie-theft.


Edited by pondering_it_all (03/31/17 11:55 PM)

Top
#300250 - 04/01/17 01:52 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
What is in the public domain so far:

Senate Intel Ctte detailed the Russian interference in the US election. Watch the hearing if you haven't. its illuminating about the methodology. A fake news infrastructure was built up. That infrastructure was merged with hack and release of info. A concerted info warfare attack was made favouring one candidate....Trump.

FBI Director Comey confirmed that there is an ongoing investigation into the trump campaigns links to Russian operatives. Flynn, Manafort, Page and Stone are the key figures so far ( not yet named formally).

Trumps campaign/administration has been favourable towards the russian government, going so far as to tone down the GOP platform in August. This would appearto be a quid pro quo. It could just be an expression of foreign policy softening, another "reset"

Those are the known facts. At the moment we are reading the behaviour of the trump administration in that context. The kind interpretation is that a bunch of amateurs is attempting to minimise any political damage from the optics of wrong doing (where no wrong doing took place) giving the appearance of guilt.

The kind interpretation is that The Donald is an aloof administrator who is focused on results rather than details, persuaded by strong personalities competing within his team rather than reasoned deliberation. Style and appearance over substance.

Even if I were that kind, this is the president of the united states under discussion. Even if that kind interpretation were true the buck stops with him. There are no training wheels for a presidency.


On a slightly different note, i actually felt sorry for the man today. see for yourself
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300252 - 04/01/17 03:41 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13700
Loc: Florida
Quote:
i actually felt sorry for the man today.

Not me...they had to make sh!t up about Obama. This guy manages to create gaffs and screwups for every news cycle.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#300254 - 04/01/17 03:58 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Greger]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13700
Loc: Florida
Quote:
The kind interpretation is that The Donald is an aloof administrator

The kind interpretation would be that he is an administrator at all.

Tillerson...now there's your aloof administrator.
_________________________
"Be yourself; everyone else is already taken."— Oscar Wilde

Top
#300257 - 04/01/17 04:24 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Actually, I'm not all that unhappy about Ivanka and her husband taking on so much. Donald can just go play golf and hang out in Florida, and our first woman President will be Ivanka. She's got to be more competent than her dad. At least she's not hitting the senility deadline.

Oops, forgot about President Nancy Reagan after the shooting. It's great to have family you can depend on when it just starts to get away from you.

Top
#300266 - 04/01/17 03:14 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Admittedly, I have mixed feelings about Ivanka and Jared. They are widely seen as moderating influences on Donald. The problem, of course, is motivation. Although I tend to defend the patriotic impulses of government officials, I see little evidence of that in Trump world.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300268 - 04/01/17 03:40 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Not to mention that they do not appear to have much in the way of relevant qualifications, experience or skills.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#300276 - 04/01/17 05:51 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Well, I have said that any jerk off the street could do a better job than Donald Trump. Ivanka meets that qualification. She also graduated cum laude with a bachelor's degree in economics in 2004 from Wharton. So she has the capability to learn the job. Maybe the temperament?

Certainly things that Donald does not have. Probably better qualified than some US Presidents.

Top
#300278 - 04/01/17 06:21 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Good God, is the bar really that low?!
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300281 - 04/01/17 07:51 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Obviously, it is lower than that. Maybe in negative territory.
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#300294 - 04/02/17 01:54 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12437
Loc: Whittier, California
It's a misnomer to refer to what the Russians did as "hacking" because they actually did very little computer hacking compared to their MAIN efforts.
Their main efforts were not directed at computers, they were directed at the American people in the form of psyops and psychological warfare.
Computers did not get hacked so much as the ability of the American people to think critically and act upon reliable and accurate information.
The Russian Act of War was an INFORMATION WAR.
And the man sitting in the Oval Office right now was part of a plan AGREED UPON by our own Republican Party in concert WITH the Russians.
This is the problem, not a few errant cyber-attacks on some servers.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

Top
#300296 - 04/02/17 03:15 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Gen Michael Hayden was on Real Time Bill Maher last night, and he made an excellent point. The Russian Intel crew know American culture better than most Americans. They knew the hot button wedge issues, lying Hillary, anti-Obamacare ignoranuses, downwardly mobile working class white, etc, and played their disinformation perfuctly. But it wouldn't have worked without those inherent weaknesses of the low info voters. It is hard to protect ourselves from the effects of the truly ignorant, and proud of it, voters. We collectively deserve it, as somehow we let Rove, Rush et al immunize the population against intellectual arguments. "Yur not goin to fool me with one of them intellectual arguments, I know better than to listen to logic! La la la la la la I cant hear you!!!

Tat


Edited by TatumAH (04/02/17 03:22 AM)
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300302 - 04/02/17 06:37 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Gen Michael Hayden was on Real Time Bill Maher last night, and he made an excellent point. The Russian Intel crew know American culture better than most Americans. They knew the hot button wedge issues, lying Hillary, anti-Obamacare ignoranuses, downwardly mobile working class white, etc, and played their disinformation perfuctly. But it wouldn't have worked without those inherent weaknesses of the low info voters. It is hard to protect ourselves from the effects of the truly ignorant, and proud of it, voters. We collectively deserve it, as somehow we let Rove, Rush et al immunize the population against intellectual arguments. "Yur not goin to fool me with one of them intellectual arguments, I know better than to listen to logic! La la la la la la I cant hear you!!!

Tat

Which is exactly why I advocated for political purity in this thread. Why should we constantly be banging our head against the wall because of them? Hmm

There would be plenty of disagreements amongst ourselves - without them putting their ignorant opinions in too. gobsmacked
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300303 - 04/02/17 06:40 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Inside every good scam is a tiny bit of truth. Actual hacks did supply some of those bits. So they could leak Podesta's emails when they were anti-Bernie and the Bernie Bros lapped it up. Not "some established Democrats prefer the establishment Democrat instead of the Socialist" but rather "THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED", so some Bernie Bros stayed home on election day.

Hillary was accused of killing Vince Foster though that was pure right-wing fantasy. So they posted thousands of stories about "Killer Hillary". Hillary and Bill had a charitable foundation, so they posted stories about Hillary's quid-pro-quos, with zero evidence that ever happened. On and on.

The funny thing is I could see it happening on Slate's and other comment sections. I called out the posters as Russian agents often, to no avail. Turns out, I was right. You can fix ignorance, but you can't fix stupidity. Trump voters are probably the very people getting phished and phone scammed by con-men posing as IRS agents.

Top
#300308 - 04/02/17 07:57 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

This Trump-Russia thing is about money-landering and the 2016 election was simply a foothold to get the investigations going. I think that intelligence community knew about the money-laundering and found out in a not-so-Kosher way and is using the 2016 election as a ruse to connect Trump to Russian money laundering from those who ripped Russia off in the 90s.

They'll say: We started off looking at election-collusion, but look at what we found, instead, (and/or) we found this (money-laundering) in the investigation also too.

Everything I'm reading now-a-days is about Russian Oligarchs and Mobsters buying condos in various Trump Towers across the globe for WAY OVER asking price and Trump pocketing money for his efforts in helping hide the Russian assets.

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300309 - 04/02/17 09:00 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Oh yeah...this is BIG. Trump WILL BE going to jail. Google Felix Sater and Felix Satter.


I was also correct in hypothesizing how the Intel Community came to knowledge in a not-so-Kosher way: This is a Whitey Bulger-type fvck up that the FBI did, big time. Interestingly enough, both Whitey Bulgar and this one with Felix Sater / Satter come about the same time periods in American history too - at least in the Felix Sater / Satter case it starts in 1983 with Trump Tower - whereas White Bulgar started in the '70s.

How the Intel community allowed Donald J Trump to be sworn in as president is beyond me.

There is without a doubt that EVERYTHING that is happening legislatively and even in confirmations needs to be placed on hold.

Our country is in a real mess right now.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300310 - 04/02/17 09:02 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
Admittedly, I have mixed feelings about Ivanka and Jared. They are widely seen as moderating influences on Donald. The problem, of course, is motivation. Although I tend to defend the patriotic impulses of government officials, I see little evidence of that in Trump world.

Trump is following the footsteps of other dictators: Installing family members and creating a bubble at the expense of putting government employees in place who know that they are doing.
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300311 - 04/02/17 10:49 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
and every Trump supporter will say ... so what
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300317 - 04/02/17 03:33 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: rporter314
and every Trump supporter will say ... so what


Which is exactly what the recent polls are showing. 90% of Trump voters are still supportive of him, in spite of hard evidence of all the goings on. These people are immunized from the truth and data, as is shown by their belief that their coal mining jobs will be back, and the hope of Trump saving their coal pensions from the big bad coal companies. Irrational hope has to be dashed, trashed, and immolated before thay will realize they have been played. Irrational hope is all they have left, except for opiates, that are even more effective on psychic pain than physical pain. Both will be difficult to escape from.

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300318 - 04/02/17 03:42 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Irrational hope is all they have left, except for opiates, that are even more effective on psychic pain than physical pain. Both will be difficult to escape from.
Tat

Sleepers... wake!!
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#300319 - 04/02/17 03:44 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8478
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
_________________________
"You can't fix a problem until you know what the problem is." Logtroll

Top
#300325 - 04/02/17 06:58 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
There are some very heavy sleepers out there, contataed to just go baroque waiting for enlightenment.

Bach at the, better than, OK Chorale, the cornet and horn parts are straining the upper range of modern instruments. Many switch to antique piccolo cornets and short horns, though at that time valve horns were a thing of the future. Fortunately, I just got a new horn that has a key that takes it up to eleven, and can Handel the higher range.

Con-Tataed
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300326 - 04/02/17 07:09 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

From early February 2017:


Quote:
He will die in jail

Oh be still my heart! laugh
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300327 - 04/02/17 07:25 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
These people are immunized from the truth and data, as is shown by their belief that their coal mining jobs will be back, and the hope of Trump saving their coal pensions from the big bad coal companies.


And that Nigerian prince is going to transfer the millions into their bank account any day now...

Top
#300330 - 04/02/17 07:39 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


I wonder if the fact that Donald J Trump knows the Feds are coming for him and that he will "die in jail" - is the reason why he wants to destroy America as we know it - because he's having a temper tantrum of what is future will be like and he wants to "get even" with the Country which "did this to him." Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300334 - 04/02/17 08:01 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Rick .... how exactly will he be convicted of anything?

No agency in the IC can prefer charges, only the DoJ can .... ever notice who the USAG is? All he has to do is say, nothing to see, move along. Who can do anything about that? the UN???? The SuperBad ultra right?

o maybe you are thinking the House will prefer charges? Does the behavior of Rep Nunes ring a bell? and suppose they do, do you really believe the Senate would convict?

From a political perspective there is nothing anyone can do about Mr Trump except vote the bum out next election. From a legal perspective I am about 50-50 anyone would do anything if he shot someone in Times Square.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300335 - 04/02/17 08:20 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Can President Pardon Himself? Possibly Yes!

Quote:

Could President Donald Trump Pardon Himself For Crimes?

Quote:
But if any of those cases, or any new and as yet undiscovered case results in criminal charges against Trump, he now appears to be in the best legal position he’s ever been in, thanks to his narrow victory over Hillary Clinton in Tuesday’s presidential election.

Here’s why Trump, if has violated federal laws in his past, can now say with certainty that he got away it them — if he so chooses
.


As he begins his transition to the White House, United States President-Elect Donald Trump faces an obstacle no incoming president has ever faced before — a minefield of lawsuits, including one scheduled to go to court on November 28 — an in which the president-elect may be forced to testify.

That would be one the three lawsuits Trump faces over fraud allegations stemming from his ownership of Trump University, which claimed to teach students Trump’s own “secrets” of real-estate investing, in exchange for a tuition fee of up to $35,000.

But Trump also faces more than 70 other lawsuits and has been sued by or has sued others in more than 4,000 cases through his career — including a lawsuit by a woman alleging that Trump violently bound and raped her when she was 13 years old, in 1994. The rape lawsuit was dropped just days before the presidential election, however.

Trump has so far avoided facing criminal charges. But many of the legal actions Trump faces or has faced appear to involve alleged criminal activity, in addition to the now-defunct rape lawsuit, ranging from violating immigration laws to failing to pay workers to breaking tax laws.

But if any of those cases, or any new and as yet undiscovered case results in criminal charges against Trump, he now appears to be in the best legal position he’s ever been in, thanks to his narrow victory over Hillary Clinton in Tuesday’s presidential election.

Here’s why Trump, if has violated federal laws in his past, can now say with certainty that he got away it them — if he so chooses
.
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300338 - 04/02/17 09:53 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Originally Posted By: rporter314
Rick .... how exactly will he be convicted of anything?


Money-laundering. The "Russian Collusion Election" thing is just get the public behind, and used to, Trump being investigated and when they turn up "something" on him.

Google Felix Sater/Satter - this thing is real and deep and Trump WILL BE GOING TO PRISON. I guarantee it. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300339 - 04/02/17 10:00 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Rape charges the are least of Trump's problems. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300341 - 04/02/17 11:03 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
He could pardon himself from criminal charges but if he did he would surely face impeachment. The founding fathers knew High Officials in the government could abuse their power to pardon themselves so they created impeachment as an alternate route to justice.

Interestingly, he can't pardon himself from civil charges, so he can still be deposed, compelled to testify, lose, and face large fines and jury awards. EG. His $25 million settlement with Trump University fraud victims.

Top
#300342 - 04/02/17 11:30 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
All he has to do is either wait for a conviction vote after impeachment, and pardon himself for everything even crimes yet to be discovered. Then just to make sure, he lines up Pence to redoo the pardons, just in case.

The pardon power is why I figure few of his crew will squeal on him, in exchange for immunity. They already have preemptive immunity, likely as part of their original employment contracts. If you rat on him, you can kiss your pardon good bye. On the other hand, how much do you trust him, who regularly stiffs contractors. Scooter Libby learned this the hard way, though it would have been done if Cheney had his way. Trump would not be embarrassed by ethically corrupt pardons.

I figure, along with Michael Steele, that T-rump will resign before the end of his term, but only after all the best lawyers have worked over his retirement/autopardon package.

His problem is that he may have screwed up and mistakenly retained some attorney, with long nascent ethics, that left open a backdoor that vacates his auto-pardon act on a technicality.

Strange times bring on strange discussions!

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300344 - 04/03/17 12:26 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I think you guys are assuming a normal rational universe for Mr Trump. In case you have not noticed, he may actually be above the law. How is that for a concept.

While it has only been 10 years since Republicans/conservatives have controlled all of government, the difference is they have moved further to the right. They have an agenda and believe God has ordained them to change America before it slides off into the 9th circle of hell. One has to recognize when zealots have single vision and you are in their way.

Mr Trump fulfills a prophesy, there will be a savior from liberal dementia and a return to a land blessed by God. Now, does anyone believe Republicans/conservatives would compromise the opportunity to complete their mission? His supporters are virtually 100% behind him, and you really believe loyalist USAG Sessions will throw him under the bus????

Now it could be he resigns if his narcissism can not handle the tsunami of criticism ... the other .... well, stop making sense
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300345 - 04/03/17 01:49 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Pardoning oneself does mean above the law, doesnt it?

I suspect that you are no longer the 3.14159, either irrational or transcendental, and have been invaded, colonized, and finally completely immortalized by transubstantiation by the almighty,(though Lutheran) omniscient, and omnipresent IRKED!

Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow Bow
Your Humble Servant
Tat


Edited by TatumAH (04/03/17 01:51 AM)
Edit Reason: Too many bows
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300346 - 04/03/17 02:26 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Welp, I have high hopes. smile

_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300355 - 04/03/17 12:01 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Well, calm down on the enthusiasm there. Still at 80-90% approval amongst Republicans. Do not expect any real change there until you see Fox news turning on him bigly. They are pushing the Obama spying counter narrative at the moment.

No impeachment until and unless that changes.



Edited by Schlack (04/03/17 12:01 PM)
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300371 - 04/04/17 04:54 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
You are confusing Republicans in The House with House Members. Republicans have 237 and Democrats have 193 members out of 430 current members. we need 216 votes to impeach him. Figure 193 Democrats vote to impeach and that leaves just 23 Republican votes needed.

Just less than 10% of the Republicans. If Trump is already under 90% approval among Republicans, he is in trouble. This a unique occurrence because every Democrat would vote to impeach, and Trump lost the popular vote so badly. Republicans also have Pence, a perfectly normal conservative Republican to step in.

Top
#300377 - 04/04/17 10:33 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
2/3 majority in senate to convict? 23 house repubs are bit going to jump ship at this time. My reference to fox is that when they recognise that it is time to shift rhetoric to maontoan viewership, that gives the GOP cover to also do so.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300378 - 04/04/17 11:10 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
the process is too complicated.

someone has to investigate to see if crimes have been committed. a committee has to request a committee hearing. it has to get out of committee. etc etc

does anyone believe Spkr Ryan will allow charges to be filed??
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300392 - 04/04/17 07:28 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
It doesn't happen right away. There has to be some major screw-up first, but this administration has done nothing but screw-ups. I have confidence in their ability to do that thing that turns enough people sick, so the Republican leadership decides to let him go.

Trump has committed far worse stuff than Nixon, and they dumped Nixon. Maybe they are waiting for their Supreme Court guy to get in, and then they'll do it before Trump can screw-up anything too important.

Top
#300449 - 04/06/17 02:47 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300457 - 04/06/17 03:57 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Did you see the a-holes replacing him? The water carrying will continue. Roll on 2018.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300461 - 04/06/17 05:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Rep Nunes was replaced with Rep Conaway, who is incapable of leading a parade down a one-way street in a small Texas community.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300462 - 04/06/17 06:39 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Rep Nunes was replaced with Rep Conaway, who is incapable of leading a parade down a one-way street in a small Texas community.

ROTFMOL , smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300486 - 04/07/17 01:29 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Well, he could be too ineffective to impede the investigation. At least he probably knows he shouldn't run over to the White House to tell on the other kids.

Regarding Nunes: Sometimes your highest purpose in life is to serve as a bad example for others.

Top
#300492 - 04/07/17 03:25 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I thought this the other day .... could the ultimate distraction be Mr Trump going to war????

Who would investigate a war president? etc etc
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300503 - 04/07/17 05:46 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
It will be very interesting to see how Russia reacts. Assad is a Russian client and ally. I guess they tried to make sure there were no Russian planes where they sent those cruise missiles.

I think it would have been much more effective to just send one cruise missile to take out Assad.

1.5 million dollars * 59 cruise missiles = 88.5 million dollars

Is the plan to spend Russia into submission, ala Reagan?

Top
#300505 - 04/07/17 08:14 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Interesting:

In 2013 when a Sarin gas attack left over 1400 dead outside of Damascus, most Republicans did not approve of President Obama striking Syrian military forces, so he didn't.

In 2017 when a Sarin gas attack left at least 70 people dead, President Trump sends in 59 cruise missiles and Republicans say: "God Bless America."

If it was up to me, use of chemical weapons would get your head of state's location nuked immediately. If they missed, they would keep on doing that until he or she was dead. Use of banned weapons makes the entire regime war criminals subject to execution.

Top
#300506 - 04/07/17 09:36 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Regarding Nunes: Sometimes your highest purpose in life is to serve as a bad example for others.

Yeah...no kidding! rolleyes , coffee
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300507 - 04/07/17 09:37 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I thought this the other day .... could the ultimate distraction be Mr Trump going to war????


People are saying™ the very same thing. Hmm
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300508 - 04/07/17 09:40 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
In 2013 when a Sarin gas attack left over 1400 dead outside of Damascus, most Republicans did not approve of President Obama striking Syrian military forces, so he didn't.

In 2017 when a Sarin gas attack left at least 70 people dead, President Trump sends in 59 cruise missiles and Republicans say: "God Bless America."


Bow
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300510 - 04/07/17 12:52 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Can someone please explain the moral difference between killing with chemical weapons and "conventional weapons*"?


Not sure I really understand it. Are there nice ways of killing?

*including depleted uranium shells and white phosphorous.
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300512 - 04/07/17 01:58 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Originally Posted By: Schlack
Can someone please explain the moral difference between killing with chemical weapons and "conventional weapons*"?


Not sure I really understand it. Are there nice ways of killing?

*including depleted uranium shells and white phosphorous.
This would take a very long time thoroughly. The short answer is, yes there is a moral difference, the most significant being the sheer illegality of chemical weapons (which CAN include white phosphorus). And, yes, there are "nicer" ways of killing. We have a number of treaties that cover these issues, the lead one being the "Geneva Conventions".
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300518 - 04/07/17 03:31 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 159
Loc: Michigan, USA
Believe it or not conventional weapons are not considered indiscriminate while Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons by their very nature are indiscriminate. An indiscriminate weapon not only takes out the target(s) but also kills, wounds, maims the general population and the flora and fauna around the target(s).

Moral difference? I do not think there is one. But it is more a matter of degrees, or the lessor of the evils. It is the choice of the user on which weapon to use and that choice is what makes the act and the chooser evil.


edited: This is a response to Schlack, not pdx rick.


Edited by Ujest Shurly (04/07/17 09:43 PM)
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

Top
#300527 - 04/07/17 08:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Shooting at an enemy soldier who is shooting at you, certainly has different moral dimensions than dropping sarin gas on a village full of civilians. Somebody ends up dead, but you have to consider what they were doing when you killed them.

We (collectively) define what is and is not a war crime, but poison gas is one of the oldest banned weapons. I hope we have progressed a little over the last 100 years.

BTW: I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes and terrorist acts in that they were attacks primarily on civilian populations in order to induce terror. Pearl Harbor, on the other hand was primarily an attack on military targets.

Top
#300528 - 04/07/17 09:23 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 159
Loc: Michigan, USA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
BTW: I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki were war crimes and terrorist acts in that they were attacks primarily on civilian populations in order to induce terror. Pearl Harbor, on the other hand was primarily an attack on military targets.


Beg to differ, both Hiroshima and Nagasaki were valid military targets. Now it is arguable that conventional bombing or fire bombing could have been used to the same effect over days as opposed to one bomb. Regardless, nukes are indiscriminate. If only we as a species could "forget" how they are made...

Hiroshima - "As a military target, Hiroshima was a major army base that housed the headquarters of the Japanese 5th Division and the 2nd Army Headquarters. It was also an important port in southern Japan and a communications center."

Nagasaki - "The city of Nagasaki was one of the most important sea ports in southern Japan. Although it was not among the list of potential targets selected by Oppenheimer's committee, it was added later due to its significance as a major war production center for warships, munitions, and other equipment."


Atomic Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
_________________________
Vote 2018

Life is like a PB&J sandwich
The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

Now, get off my grass!

Top
#300531 - 04/08/17 12:03 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
True, there were important military and manufacturing targets in both. We killed about a quarter of a million people. I'm not saying it wasn't right to end the war in days instead of months. But part of the reason for using the gadgets was to bluff the Japanese into believing we would just keep destroying one city after another until Japan was dead. If they would surrender, the country and people could survive.

It was terrorism by any definition because our intention was to terrorize them.

And it worked. They surrendered, we occupied very benevolently, and their country was saved. And we supplied military security for the next 70 years, so they barely had to spend a cent on it.
_________________________
“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

John Steinbeck

Top
#300631 - 04/12/17 12:34 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300634 - 04/12/17 03:02 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300648 - 04/12/17 07:53 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6528
Loc: North San Diego County
Comey was appointed to his job in 2013 and confirmed by the Senate. His term is 10 years. It would look like Nixon all over again if Trump fired him in the middle of an investigation into Trump's team. Firing people who were investigating him would have led directly to impeachment if Nixon had not resigned.

From Comey's point of view, being fired by Trump would be the best way to repair his reputation! In a few years, he could run for the Senate, or something similar.

Top
#300661 - 04/13/17 03:04 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Irked Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 3435
Loc: Somewhere out in left field
The Senate: with some nice robes, gilded laurel wreaths and empty talk - just right up the Boss' alley.
_________________________
How eager they are to be slaves - Tiberius Caesar

Coulda tripped out easy, but I've changed my ways - Donovan

I consider myself to be a laid back type and quite tolerant on most issues - AB Breivik

Top
#300807 - 04/20/17 12:37 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Irked]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9698
Loc: Ireland
Key Official in Trump-Russia Investigation Will Step Down

Quote:
Mary B. McCord, who has been helping oversee the Justice Department’s probe into Russian interference in the presidential election, is stepping down from her post as the acting head of the department’s national security division and leaving the federal government in the coming weeks, a source familiar with McCord’s role told The Intercept. The source, who asked not to be identified as McCord’s departure has not been formally announced, said that McCord plans to work in academia after leaving government.

It was not immediately clear who will take over for McCord. “I can confirm that Mary is leaving DOJ next month,” said Marc Raimondi, a spokesperson for the Justice Department, by email. “I cannot provide any additional material at this time.”


Report: WH Directed Intel Agencies To Find Cover For Trump's Wiretap Claims

Erik Prince acted as Trump envoy in Russian meetings: report

Page's visits to moscow warranted FBI investigation

Add to that rumours of state investigations (Trump only has power of fed pardons), and Guiliani and flynn flirting with the FBI for immunity.

When does dripping become a flood.

Also:

Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz Will Not Seek Re-Election
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


Top
#300808 - 04/20/17 02:38 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Chaffetz wants to be gone to avoid the stain of the collapse. Expect more exits.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300809 - 04/20/17 04:32 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
TatumAH Offline
newbie

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 336
Loc: Upstate NY
Chavez more time with family

Quote:
"I've been away from my family for more than 1,500 nights," Chaffetz added. "You have to reevaluate your life when you're sleeping on a cot in your office and you just turned 50."

"I want to re-introduce myself to my family," said Chaffetz, who is about to become an empty-nester after his kids move out.


So after all that time away from family and the stress-free raising of teenagers, is it safe to return, now that the nest is emptying? Could be a real motive explaining the timing.

He has found it less fun to investigate his own party instead of the enemy Democrats. He used to be a field-goal and extra point kicker in college, so I bet he also could handle a punt.

Still, there sure is a lot of Russian money and rumors from unnamed sources about Kompromat. It would be safer to be outside of the kill radius when the Russian bomb explodes.

Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

Top
#300811 - 04/20/17 07:10 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
stain of collapse ... hmmmm

Rep Chaffetz was a one trick pony ... harass and demonize Sec Clinton while demonstrating he did not have a clue about IT ... maybe failure was too much for him or maybe he thought he succeeded when Mr Trump won the election and it was time to retire

I don't put too much into people quitting or retiring from government service unless we see 400 quit at one time (I am being hyperbolic) or don;t attach meaning where there is no meaning

i dunno
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300813 - 04/20/17 10:34 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Chaffetz wants to run for Utah Governor in 2020. He needs time away to organize for that, and for the electorate to forget what he has NOT been doing in Congress.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300815 - 04/20/17 11:41 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5966
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am not sure any state is deserving of these folks.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

Top
#300846 - 04/22/17 04:41 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 15118
Russia tried to use Trump advisers to infiltrate campaign. Well, duh, CNN!
Quote:
The FBI gathered intelligence last summer that suggests Russian operatives tried to use Trump advisers, including Carter Page, to infiltrate the Trump campaign, according to US officials.

The new information adds to the emerging picture of how the Russians tried to influence the 2016 election, not only through email hacks and propaganda but also by trying to infiltrate the Trump orbit. The intelligence led to an investigation into the coordination of Trump's campaign associates and the Russians.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

Top
#300850 - 04/22/17 06:04 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Sally Yates to testify on TU May 2nd 2017. Sally Yates is the one that first notified the Bannon Administration...erm, Trump Administration that Paul Manafort was a foreign agent.

Sally was to testify at the last hearing which Devin Nunes conveniently cancelled because Sally was going to testify at that meeting. Now that Devin Nunes is out of the way, Sally Yates is free to tell us what she knows.

US House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
#300851 - 04/22/17 06:07 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 40075
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
...and for the electorate to forget what he has NOT been doing in Congress.

That's the most important goal for Chaffetz to accomplish. smile
_________________________
Contrarian, extraordinaire



Top
Page 1 of 17 1 2 3 ... 16 17 >

Who's Online
0 registered (), 48 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
agentfity, ojixadybi, tjgraylaw, AndyEmisa, lubluodPix
6220 Registered Users
A2