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#298754 - 02/15/17 07:32 PM Trump and Russia
pdx rick Offline
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This Russian-connetion thing is not going well for our forty-fifth President. NSA captured conversations between the Trump people and Russia a full year before the election.






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#298755 - 02/15/17 07:36 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

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#299246 - 03/05/17 06:51 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA


...and the Trump-Russian connections thicken:

New Development on the Michael Cohen 'Peace Plan' Meeting
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#299247 - 03/05/17 06:56 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Loc: Puget Sound, WA

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#299251 - 03/05/17 03:13 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Often overlooked by media is the underlying basis for even looking at Russian connections and its meaning.

If Mr Trump had taken the standard arms length approach to Russia, I suspect there would not have been much investigation into any connections which for the most part can easily be explained as routine government business. However, when Mr Trump appeared to be in a bromance with Putin it raises questions about the relationship and when all the contacts are considered in that context, we have questions which matter.

Speculating on possible results of connections, we have the most odious possibility Mr Trump would be willing to allow Russian intervention in Eastern Europe without US retaliation. The evidence which supports that possibility is not hysterical as conservatives and Republicans would have people believe, but is based on facts when considered in the broader context of a changed Republican platform and the many ties between Russians and Trump associates.

The bottom line is we do not know the extent of Russianization of the Trump administration.
_________________________
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#299252 - 03/05/17 04:50 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
Greger Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/06
Posts: 13645
Loc: Florida
This just in...

At least 7 Russian officials have turned up dead since Election Day. Here's what we know.

Quote:
Vitaly Churkin, Russia's ambassador to the United Nations, died suddenly in New York earlier this week, apparently of cardiac arrest.

Churkin, Russia's envoy to the U.N. since 2006, reportedly became ill at his Russian Mission office in Manhattan on Monday and died at New York-Presbyterian Hospital. He was to turn 65 the next day.

The New York City medical examiner said more study is required into the cause and manner of Churkin's death, though federal law enforcement has said it does not believe there was any foul play.

Still, because Russia is no stranger to political murders, the sudden death of a Russian official automatically raises suspicion. So while Churkin may indeed have died of natural causes, some have noted that it follows several other recent deaths of Russian officials, all occurring suddenly or under mysterious circumstances — including a man who is believed to have helped former M16 spy Christopher Steele compile his bombshell dossier on Donald Trump's links to Russia.
source

It's from Feb 27 but it's the first I've heard of it.
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#299253 - 03/05/17 04:57 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
If Trump had "seriously thought", an oxymoron for his cognition, about running for public office he would have taken more care to conceal his dirty doings. Clearly he did not understand, or misunderestimated, the tenacity of investigative journalism. All he would have to have done would be to hire a shop to do a first pass opposition research on himself. Of course he is way too paranoid to trust anyone to compile such a dossier.

I think he just wanted the bragging points and attention and it got out of hand. He never figured he would get this much screwtiny, as who go to the expense and trouble to do deep international background on an early looser in a primary of 17 colorful candidates.

Now there is a desperate, and likely futile, attempt to retroactively cover up all of that large scale, low hanging fruit, much of which is almost certainly highly criminal money laundering for the Russian oligarchs.

RE:
Quote:
rporter314: Speculating on possible results of connections, we have the most odious possibility Mr Trump would be willing to allow Russian intervention in Eastern Europe without US retaliation.


I am not too worried about this now as I suspect that similarly to his modus operandi of dealing with other contractors, he will simply stiff them. He is a master bait and switch artist. Now that it is exposed his quid pro quo options are severely limited, and he can now earnestly claim to his Rusky friends: I would love to help you all I can, but my hands are tied. They could still destroy him in a flash, but he is betting/hoping that even weakened, they view him as a still useful asset/idiot. The Russians are obviously worried by this unpredictability, that now seems likely worse than the Hillary demon that they knew and understood. What will it take for them to play their high trump card and anoint Prez Pence? Time will tell!

I doubt that Russian golden sexploitation blackmail would worry him, as Pussy-Grabber in chief snatched victory from the jaws of defeat in that scandal, that has immunized him from paraphilia related damage. Even the incestuous and pedophilia angles are shockingly ignored by the true believers. In fact, these otherwise exclusionary characteristic, have strengthened his appeal to the "mens rights" nut/whack jobs, and inexplicably many women have, with sincere so-called Christian values, turned the other cheek.

Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/05/17 05:00 PM)
Edit Reason: paraphilia speeling and ADDaTat
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#299264 - 03/05/17 10:42 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Greger]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: Greger
This just in...

At least 7 Russian officials have turned up dead since Election Day. Here's what we know..

5'7" Vlad is a regular killing machine. gobsmacked
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#299267 - 03/06/17 12:12 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


So Mark Levin goes on Fox and Friends Sunday and says there is "overwhelming evidence" that BAMZ!!! spied on Trump at Trump Towers:



President* Trump sees the Levin interview and loses his sh!t and goes on a Tweeting frenzy:



Then James Comey Asks Justice Dept. to Reject Trump’s Wiretapping Claim

I can't believe we have a POTUS that acts like some drama queen and flies off the handle when he is slightly provoked. rolleyes
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#299268 - 03/06/17 12:39 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
conservatives believe The Great One is a Constitutional scholar ... I listen to him occasionally and he impresses me as an idiot => he argues the Constitution and then proclaims Pres Obama is a secret Muslim (without benefit of any facts)

Of course he also says only conservatives have the intellect to discern facts and make logical arguments ... I have to conclude he goes brain dead occasionally
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ignorance is the enemy
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#299269 - 03/06/17 01:08 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: rporter314
I have to conclude he goes brain dead occasionally


Occasionally?? There is no resurrection from brain death!
Which reminds me, what did folks around here give up for lent?
I gave up any hope that there was any sanity in the GOP.
It will not likely improve after Easter. I am reading Revelations and preparing for end-times, as best I can without accepting the Gospel!
Tat
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There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#299270 - 03/06/17 01:24 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12413
Loc: Whittier, California
Don't forget, Murdoch is NOT a fan of Trump. He made his peace with Trump but he's probably enjoying all of this, at our expense, of course.
_________________________
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Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
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#299271 - 03/06/17 01:26 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12413
Loc: Whittier, California
Preliminary reports say that Trump booted Bannon and Priebus off Air Force One before heading down one more time to Mar-A-Lago.

ABC NEWS LINK

Quote:
As President Trump was in the air aboard Marine One headed for Air Force One on the tarmac at Joint Base Andrews, a last-minute phone call was made from the West Wing to the team on board the president’s plane with a directive to remove Priebus and Bannon from the manifest, sources said. They would not be coming to the Sunshine State.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

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#299273 - 03/06/17 03:21 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
Here is a timely update suggesting that we should be prepared for a Hail Mary play tomorrow, in a desperate attempt to distract/derail/deturd the Russian Investigation. You can smell their fear! I am hoping that it is the right time to resurrect that old and beloved thread, based on Bill Maher's memorial to the fallen, yes, Farewell to Douchebags1 I got a little list, and they'll none of them be missed.
Note the list of players:Priebus, Bannon, White House counsel Don McGahn, and Sessions among others. Sessions is particularly notable because he wasn’t scheduled to make the trip but was added to the roster at the last minute, and Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly who will likely be in charge of implementing the plan that will be known as: la Noche de Cristal.

Beware of cornered narcissists with power! Nothing is more dangerous!!
Tat

Donald Trump panics over Russia: Jeff Sessions, Priebus, Bannon all huddled at Mar-a-Lago
Quote:



Just hours after Donald Trump tried to create his most absurd distraction from the Russia scandal to date by falsely insisting that President Obama had been spying on him, it turns out Trump’s entire team is now in panic mode. In fact Trump’s entire senior team is huddled at his Mar-a-Lago home in Florida as we speak, as they to figure out what their Russia endgame might be.

The Donald Trump advisers huddled at Mar-a-Lago today include White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus, White House chief strategist Stephen Bannon, White House counsel Don McGahn, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions among others. Sessions is particularly notable because he wasn’t scheduled to make the trip but was added to the roster at the last minute. But at this late stage in the Russia scandal, what options do the Trump team even have left? None of them are good.

One option is for Jeff Sessions to resign, in a last ditch attempt at staving off the Russia scandal. Dana Boente, seemingly now a Trump loyalist despite having been originally appointed by Obama, would then presumably become acting Attorney General, giving him control over the Trump-Russia investigation. But even sacrificing Sessions seems unlikely to stave off the heat for long. Sacrificing Michael Flynn last month did little to stop the bleeding.

Another option is for Donald Trump to launch a controversial major new initiative on Monday, in the hope of creating a distraction from Russia. That may explain why Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly is also at Mar-a-Lago right now, as any expansion of Trump’s anti-immigrant bender would go through DHS. But even such a stunt might only take the heat off Russia for a day or two.

As it is, Donald Trump is already so cornered that he’s now falsely accusing President Obama of wiretapping him on a “Nixon/Watergate” level. That’s an absurd and desperate last stab at trying to survive a scandal which Trump seems to be figuring out he can’t survive.


Edited by TatumAH (03/06/17 03:27 AM)
Edit Reason: edit Spanish
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#299278 - 03/06/17 04:44 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA


Originally Posted By: pdx rick
So Mark Levin goes on Fox and Friends Sunday and says there is "overwhelming evidence" that BAMZ!!! spied on Trump at Trump Towers:


laugh

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#299279 - 03/06/17 05:03 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Quote:
Donald Trump is already so cornered that he’s now falsely accusing President Obama of wiretapping him on a “Nixon/Watergate” level. That’s an absurd and desperate last stab at trying to survive a scandal which Trump seems to be figuring out he can’t survive.

Good!

Click to reveal..
Fvck that mother fvcker!


mad
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#299287 - 03/06/17 08:49 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
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#299288 - 03/06/17 09:36 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

So this gal named 'Becca wrote this little diddy on her blog:

Quote:
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, well-placed Russians started stealing many billions of dollars worth of Russia’s assets, from its natural resources to its hard cash. Looking for places to park their money, a whole lot of them decided on condos in Trump Tower, buying like 10 each for made up amounts of money, because who can determine what real estate is “really” worth?

His personal attorney, Michael Cohen, owns an ethanol company in the Ukraine.

He partnered for years with a convicted felon (a dude who stabbed another dude in the face with the broken stem of a margarita glass!) who was mobbed up DEEP in both Russia and Little Italy — and then, once Russian investments had saved him from bankruptcy (again), said he barely knew him.

And his entire cabinet, with the possible exception of Ben Carson, has bizarre ties to Russian banks (new Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, for instance, was until two days ago (FR MAR 3rd 2017) the vice-chair of the Bank of Cyprus, which launders Russian money) and Russian oil companies. Jeff Sessions was hosting dinner for and having white papers written for him by a fellow named Richard Burt, who was lobbying for Gazprom and sits on the board of … Alfa Bank.

Even Betsy DeVos, that nice dumb lady ready to dismantle public education in the US, has weird ties to Alpha Bank (though that one seems thin!) — AND the rogue elements in the FBI who were leaking to her brother, Erik Prince (yes, of Blackwater), that Anthony Weiner was going to be arrested before the election, right before Anthony Weiner’s computer got turned over to the FBI.


That's some really good dirt, 'Becca!! cool
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#299327 - 03/07/17 05:14 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Golem Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 3418
Loc: Orange County, California, USA



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#299329 - 03/07/17 05:41 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Golem]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
Speaking about precious bodily fluids, this I think is the origin of that phrase used in this context!
Tat




And here is the original so-called "Money Shot" rolleyes
Tat


Edited by TatumAH (03/07/17 05:49 PM)
Edit Reason: ADDing Money Shot
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There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#299331 - 03/07/17 07:07 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12413
Loc: Whittier, California

FORBES:Trump's Wiretap Tweets Raise Risk of Impeachment

This is a defining moment, perhaps THE defining moment.
No, I don't mean Trump's idiotic tweets, I mean the idea, the notion, that this nation seems to be prepared to IGNORE the salient points put forth by Noah Feldman, to wit:

Quote:
"In a rule of law society, government allegations of criminal activity must be followed by proof and prosecution. If not, the government is ruling by innuendo.
Shadowy dictatorships can do that because there is no need for proof. Democracies can’t."


What Noah Feldman says demands another question:
Is the United States of America still a nation of laws or have we now become a nation of men instead.

The points made here raise, perhaps for the final time, whether America is a nation of laws or a nation of men.
If America has now proven to be the latter, then there is nothing left worth saving.

And so far, I do not SEE ONE DAMN THING that supports the argument that we are still a nation of laws.
So don't take the easy way out and just accuse me of being Debbie Downer, or buying into hopelessness.
At the very worst, I am operating on a surplus of caution, preparing for the worst while still hoping for the best.
And for me, that concept of "best" merely consists of a revised definition of what America really is.


(I would define Pennsylvania as being red at this time, not blue.)



I COULD choose to just cut out Canada and call Maine, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, California, Oregon, Washington, Minnesota and Illinois "America" and call the rest "Trumplandia" like it shows on my map.

Or I could include Canada in the hopes that Canada might be interested in acquiring some 130 to 140 million new hardworking taxpayers and a helluva lot of natural resources and high tech capabilities.

Either of those are extremely hopeful positions, the former being much more "apple pie American", the latter being a pragmatic and more economically responsible approach to future prosperity.

But the one thing I do KNOW in my heart and soul, is that it's a fact that Trumplandia WILL NEVER EVER make peace with the above parts of the country. They haven't in the 160 years since the Civil War. It's never going to happen.
I love all my dear friends who live down there but I see them as wonderful people who live in a foreign country.
I respect their decision to live there.
I tried my best to BE one of those people for thirteen years and it wasn't enough to measure up to the values that are held dear by a majority of people down there. I was still a Yankee as far as most people were concerned.
Thus, I was still, even after thirteen years, a foreigner.
I've just come to the conclusion that maybe those people were right.

I am no longer interested in trying to save some idiots in Kentucky who are determined to re-segregate schools,
(KY House Bill 151) or save health care for people who voted for the man who is determined to take it away from them, or fight to save a river two thousand miles from my home which had just cleaned up it's oil spills just in time for a law to be passed that allows the same companies to spill even more oil into it all over again, or try to stop a war that apparently GOD TOLD some wealthy men they had every right to start, or hold back gerrymandering which is bound to become enshrined in a state constitution should two more Republican legislators win their seats in the next three weeks, or fight to save overtime in a state that had already taken it from me ten years ago anyway.
We can get rid of Trump. We could get rid of FORTY Trumps.
Oh gee, forty down and forty million left to go?

That is the country they WANT.
I'm saving my humanity for protecting my family, my friends and my loved ones.

It's not that I suddenly hate my country.
I loved America. That country doesn't exist anymore except for a few small pockets with a giant cesspool in the middle.
It's just gone, plain and simple.

Maybe a new America will rise from the ashes, but probably not in my lifetime. Maybe, with a little luck, in my kids lifetimes.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

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#299334 - 03/07/17 07:17 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
Quote:
call the rest "Trumplandia"


It already has a well-established name: Dumbf**kistan

These maps have been around for years.

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#299335 - 03/07/17 07:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

I could live with this new map. I have more in common with the folks in blue on this map, than I do with the red middle.
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#299336 - 03/07/17 07:48 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12413
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
call the rest "Trumplandia"


It already has a well-established name: Dumbf**kistan

These maps have been around for years.


Yeah, and sometimes they get revised a wee bit.
And this time, it is starting to look like this map is in earnest.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

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#299360 - 03/08/17 10:10 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA



...and we should be a wall along our eastern and southern borders keeping those nasty red-state deplorables out.

smile
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#299363 - 03/08/17 03:03 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8424
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Vote data 2016
Quote:
Projections from the United States Elections Project show that there were 231,556,622 Americans eligible to vote, but 138,884,643 voted. That means that 40 percent didn’t vote, while 60 percent did. The voter turnout will likely increase as the popular vote continues to be counted.

Voting Eligible Population Ballots: 138,884,643 (60 percent)
Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote: 92,671,979 (40 percent
Voter Eligible Population Total: 231,556,622

It might be fun to divide the U.S. up into red states and blue states based on which went for whom (the map is somewhat inaccurate, btw - I know that NM went blue), but remember that in all of them there are many voters of both hues.

When I was a yoot up in Idaho, it was a SOLIDLY blue state based on large numbers of blue collar workers (timber, mining, farming). I vaguely remember the reddening of the mountain bluebird state as outside money from energy corporations (mainly Texas based) poured in to back Republican candidates, buying their votes on national big energy issues - I also remember an influx of wealthy 1st world Californians seeking seclusion and refuge in 3rd world Idaho. (One could be middle-class in CA, but rich in ID on the same money). With all the money came waves of gooey propaganda that gradually converted the blue collar workers from hating the oligarchs to hating liberals and environmentalists who were trying to protect what was left of the now heavily logged, mined, industrially farmed, and pigshit polluted landscape. The propagandists spun that effort to protect the environment into an assault on jobs. Voila! Idaho became a red state. The jobs went away anyhow, because of mechanization, depletion, and economics; but the New World View, created by corporate spin, continues to dominate in many peoples' minds.

You all know how Trump is crazy, right? He's delusional, narcissistic, self-absorbed, all too ready to believe rumors and innuendo - these are also the qualities that make people vulnerable to unethical salesmen. We all suffer from these frailties, to varying degrees. It's my opinion that the right wing suffers from them more, both in politicians who take advantage of voters' gullibility, and the gullibility of voters. But on the flip side, this human condition also makes it extremely difficult for top quality politicians (there are a few, and many more who would like to be) to advance truly good ideas (note the pragmatic resistance to Bernie Sanders displayed here at RR during the primaries).

Back to the voter numbers and the map... Trump was elected with quite a small number of votes. Some big fat guesses are that more than half of his votes came from gullible folks (see the Idaho story above) who suckered more for his sales pitch than for Clinton's. Some portion of his votes were from people who have a shallow ideological notion that they would prosper more with a Trump administration (in various way; money, racial dominance, religious dominance, power, etc.).

The potential vote number for the "liberal" way were huge, but the sales pitch neither turned out the apathetic, nor stimulated the dutiful. The undecideds who didn't vote (40% of all eligible voters) and half of Trump's voters (25% of eligible votes) equals 52% of the eligible vote that could have gone Left that didn't, if the Left only had a pitch that hooked people. Add to that the 27% that she did get (79%) and you can see that the nation is not that red!

Why is it so hard, then? Partly, it is because the Left is generally not comfortable with the snake-oil "alternative facts", propaganda, fear-mongering, and hyperbole that the Trumpests are so good at. This is not a character flaw, but it is a competitive disadvantage when the average human condition is one of mental laziness and gullibility.

The solution? Frankly, I don't know. It is not a natural thing for ethical people to toss ethics aside in order to "win", no matter how pragmatic the reason. But, as the Logtroll is fond of saying, "You can't solve a problem until you understand what the problem is..."
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#299365 - 03/08/17 03:28 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I am a little disappointed as I was hoping you would say you have a solution looking for a problem.

I know it is not politically correct to mention such things but something stands out to me. Whether there is any real basis for this observation, I don't know, and I don't know if it makes any difference.

It struck me that a number of conservatives are 2nd or 3rd generation descendants of immigrants. What do the interlopers know about America and our democratic traditions? Maybe Americans have forgotten what it means to be American. Does the Tocquevillian notion of American exceptionalism even apply in a modern world?

Education is the key. "An educated citizenry is a vital requisite for our survival as a free people." (paraphrase of Pres Jefferson). We have fallen into two broad camps of the educated and the ignorant, of fear and hopeful optimism. The specter of fascism has reared its head only because fear and ignorance are tolerated, endorsed and elevated to a virtue.

I do not care what ones conclusions are, but they must be immersed in logical, objective thought based on facts. We have entered a critical inflection zone in which a continuation down this path will guarantee the dissolution of democracy in America. Will we have real patriots willing to fight against this tyranny or will Americans quietly acquiesce to the wishes of a dictator?
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
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#299367 - 03/08/17 04:15 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8424
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: rporter314
Education is the key. ...
Will we have real patriots willing to fight against this tyranny or will Americans quietly acquiesce to the wishes of a dictator?

I have these questions:

What does this education look like, and how is it accomplished?

What does the fighting look like?

I am all for good general education, and better educated people statistically seem to be more rational thinkers. But how do we get representatives who will work for better general education? There needs to be a successful sales pitch (another form of education) developed for this that will get the positive attention of the zombie voters.

I am ambivalent about the "fighting" angle. My assessment is the the Rightie activists are better fighters, because they are unethical. It appears that having vastly greater numbers of protesters is an effective optic, but the violent factions need to be suppressed. The most effective turnout strategy is to vote, as the title fight is the election.

One essential item needed for a top sales pitch is to have it delivered by a top salesman. Hillary was not a top salesman, though I observed that she was getting better at it. But learning to be a top salesman is no substitute for charisma. Especially in today's pervasive visual media world.

For some reason, conservatives don't seem to need as much charisma. Neither Bushes had much - Gore and Kerry were total duds. I would not have said that Trump has much, but I think he has plenty with some kinds of people - it's "negative" charisma. Carter was low on it, Reagan very high, Bill Clinton very high, and Obama very high (but sporadic). I suggest that charisma be the top characteristic of the next liberal candidate.
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#299368 - 03/08/17 04:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12413
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: logtroll
Vote data 2016
Quote:
Projections from the United States Elections Project show that there were 231,556,622 Americans eligible to vote, but 138,884,643 voted. That means that 40 percent didn’t vote, while 60 percent did. The voter turnout will likely increase as the popular vote continues to be counted.

Voting Eligible Population Ballots: 138,884,643 (60 percent)
Voter Eligible Population That Didn’t Vote: 92,671,979 (40 percent
Voter Eligible Population Total: 231,556,622

It might be fun to divide the U.S. up into red states and blue states based on which went for whom (the map is somewhat inaccurate, btw - I know that NM went blue), but remember that in all of them there are many voters of both hues.


That said, it's easy to figure out what the majority is in a lot of them. New Mexico might be starting to turn purple but the GOP still runs most of the city and county government, and there is still enough of a Right Wing majority to keep them in there.

In the end, this is still a football game, whether we want it to be or not, so in the end, either the Blue Team wins or the Red Team wins. From a football perspective, the map is still somewhat accurate despite all the growing trends.
One thing is clear though. Civil war of some kind is an inevitability because you can get rid of a THOUSAND Trumps but you will still be stuck with all those people who would rather stick needles in their eye than not vote Republican, and the Republicans know this.
They know this because their chief skill lies in targeted messaging and proper investment in focused messaging tools.
They have spent literally billions and when someone spends billions, it's a good bet that at least SOME results are expected.
The result that the GOP expects is quite simply "the dismantling of the administrative state."
I can only think of maybe five Republicans who are willing to voice objections over a statement like that, thus their silence on Bannon's signature line of agitprop equals consent.
The phrase is a highly polished way of saying something much more despicable: the dismantling of liberal democracy in favor of corporate authoritarian theocracy along white supremacist lines and built on a foundation of purist libertarian anarcho-capitalist economics.
They also have spent billions on dismantling education, so that the kind of talk Bannon uses isn't subjected to critical thinking.
That is an INSURANCE policy, and a very long lasting one at that.
It's generational in scope.

I am not a betting man but I will place a bet on a breakup of this country that vaguely resembles the breakup of the USSR some time in the next ten to twenty years, and some sort of resulting internal war type reaction.

And I'd say it's a safe bet that the breakup is probably going to happen along lines vaguely similar to that map, give or take a couple of states here or there.
_________________________
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Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
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#299371 - 03/08/17 05:32 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Jeffery J. Haas]
logtroll Offline
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Registered: 04/26/10
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Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
NM is still pretty blue. The dems in the state are plagued with the same problem recently of gubernatorial candidates with low charisma running for office. Our single R Congressman comes from a part of the state that is essentially Texas oil country. The state lege is all blue by pretty solid margins.

Registered voters: 46% D; 31% R

NM political demographics
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#299376 - 03/08/17 06:48 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Us blue-staters took a vote - we don't want New Mexico. Bye Felicias. smile
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#299378 - 03/08/17 07:32 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


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Registered: 08/03/04
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Loc: Whittier, California
I don't know about that, Rick.
But the problem is, no way is a land bridge going to be built between NM and the three West Coast states, so New Mexico will still be a slightly blue island in the middle of a red war zone anyway.

Maybe New Mexico and Colorado could try pairing their fortunes together.


Edited by Jeffery J. Haas (03/08/17 07:33 PM)
_________________________
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Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

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#299399 - 03/09/17 10:30 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.

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#299403 - 03/09/17 02:44 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8424
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.

Spot on, mate! And his partner is even more spectacular.
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#299406 - 03/09/17 04:19 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
Quote:
What does this education look like, and how is it accomplished?

first let it be noted that based on sociological studies many people are fixed in youth as being either conservative or liberal. On top of that there is a group who possess an irrational fear of government in particular and change in general. Can not address the irrational

I also believe for the most part people can learn the basics of clear logical thought based on facts. This is critical for education. It is a long term project as one must learn what facts are and how to process them.

Quote:
What does the fighting look like?
I look around the world and see varying degrees of violence related to changes in government. America was founded in a revolution. Turkey experienced an attempted coup. Hungary revolted from Russian rule. Any number of countries are in civil war.

In the west we have a long tradition of orderly non-violent transfer of power. It makes sense. Suppose a president assumes some degree of authoritarian power (unitary executive) which borders on the collapse of democracy. Would Americans be sheep and allow the water boarding to begin? Would we allow government to deport Muslims?

I know these are extreme examples but the current occupant of the WH has surrounded himself with people who are purveyors of bigotry and a revolutionary approach to deconstruct government. The one redeeming feature of dictatorship is the ease with which everything can be done without the encumbrances of government interference.

I just had to ask the question as apparently repubicans/conservatives are on board for anything.
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299408 - 03/09/17 05:51 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12413
Loc: Whittier, California
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.


Heh heh heh...Republicans would start slitting their wrists if he decided to run. ROTFMOL
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

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#299410 - 03/09/17 06:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Want charisma, celebrity, glamour?

Run George Clooney. Yes, he's a progressive Democrat. And VERY popular.

Oprah Winfrey is thinking about running too. We'd def get the black and women's vote. Hmm

Originally Posted By: Jeffery J. Haas
[Heh heh heh...Republicans would start slitting their wrists if he decided to run. ROTFMOL

They'd really be slitting their wrists if Oprah ran. laugh
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#299421 - 03/10/17 02:10 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
Oprah would be cool, but George has that White and Male thing going for him.

Plus far more celebrity than Trump and women LOVE him. They like and admire Oprah but very few of them have Oprah sex fantasies.

I'm just thinking that if people are dumb enough to vote for celebrities, might as well give them one who is sane and ethical. Of course, Trump is not the first: Think Ronnie and even Eisenhower.

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#299476 - 03/11/17 11:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Turns out that Michael Flynn was a foreign agent while working for the Trump campaign, Mike Pence had to know this while he heading the transition team.

Trump was supposedly FOR SHOCKED that his former National Security Adviser Michael "Good Guy" Flynn was a foreign agent - at least that's what the White House said.

AP reports that the Trump transition team was indeed told before the inauguration — sometime between November 8 and January 20 — that Flynn would probably have to register as a traitor foreign agent if he wanted to be national security adviser. That comes from a “White House official and a person with direct knowledge of the discussions." Per the AP:

Quote:
A White House official said Flynn’s personal lawyer contacted Trump transition attorneys before the inauguration about the possible filing as he was being considered for appointment as Trump’s national security adviser. The official said the transition team was not made aware of the filing’s details and Flynn’s related business dealings, and advised Flynn’s lawyer that it was a personal matter they would need to handle. The official was not authorized to discuss private conversations and spoke on condition of anonymity.


***Pffft*** Trump didn't know?!? I call bullsh!t. gobsmacked

Trump's White House can't even figure out how to lie about Flynn being a foreign agent. Sad. coffee

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#299516 - 03/12/17 09:52 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
One thing to note: Flynn was a Turkish agent, not Russian. Turkey is in NATO, so technically not an enemy. So "traitor" may be a little far-fetched.

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#299518 - 03/13/17 01:51 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
matthew Offline
stranger

Registered: 03/24/16
Posts: 226
Originally Posted By: rporter314
In the west we have a long tradition of orderly non-violent transfer of power. It makes sense. Suppose a president assumes some degree of authoritarian power (unitary executive) which borders on the collapse of democracy. Would Americans be sheep and allow the water boarding to begin? Would we allow government to deport Muslims?

Certainly! They would stampede like sheep into dictatorship and martial law (or its equivalent).

All that is needed is for the Deep State to engineer a Reichstag Fire, or a 9/11 or other incident. Laws and Constitution would be trampled into dust by the mindless herd.

We've already seen it happen with the so-called "Patriot Act."
.
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#299669 - 03/17/17 03:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
Dr Strangelove Updated

_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299765 - 03/19/17 04:55 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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There is a Wordpress.com website that lists, in esquisite detail with supporting links, 76 connections of Donald J Trump to Russia Oligarchy or Putin himself. It's really quite good.

Trump Watchdog.com

Here are a few examples, minus links. If you want to read the details of the links, go the link provided above.

Quote:
Trump's son in Law is Jared Kushner, the former owner of the Observer. The Observer received the DNC hacks from Guccifer 2.0 who is rumored to be a Russian agent.

Guccifer 2.0 and Roger Stone were apparently in contact up to 16 times during the 2016 campaign.

Jared Kushner’s parents are friends with Netanyahu. Netanyahu has forged an alliance with Putin.

His Chief Strategist is Steve Bannon. Bannon is the CEO of Breitbart, with the Mercer family having majority ownership. The Mercers, along with Bannon are heavily involved in Cambridge Analytica a data gathering firm. Cambridge Analytica’s parent company is SCL Group, which lists Dmitry Firtash as a board member. Breitbart and Bannon have extensive ties to the far right movement in Europe which is also funded by Putin.

His second campaign manager is Paul Manafort. He had to resign in August due to having questionable Russian ties like Dmitry Firtash and the former Ukrainian President. Manafort lives in Trump tower, along with Kellyanne Conway and her husband.

Mike McSherry, former Delegate strategist for the Trump campaign also lobbied for the same Ukrainian presidential candidate as Paul Manafort.

Rick Gates, Manaforts top aid also lobbied for Pro-Putin Ukrainian candidate.

Per Politico, Manafort met with Konstantin Kilimnikmultiple times during the campaign. The first time appears to be in April, maybe when Trump gave that speech? Kilimnik is thought to be part of Russian intelligence.

They worked Oleg Deripaska on investment funds in Ukraine. Firtash worked with Russian Mob Semion Moglivech boss to help Gazprom oversee Natural Gas distribution to Ukraine.

Trump advisor J.D. Gordon is claiming that he was the advisor who had the Ukraine language softened at the Republican National Convention, at the request of Donald Trump.

Kellyanne Conway’s husband has business dealings with the Russian government and deleted tweets about it once Conway was chosen. (Conway, Bannon, and the Mercers are part of the “Council on National Policy” a secretive far right think tank group.)

George Conway represented a firm that bribed the Russian government.

Trump sold his condo to Dmitry Rybolovev, whose private plane keeps showing up where Trump is. Rybolovev is a Russian billionaire with ties to Putin.

There is a Pro-Russian Think tank called the Center for the National Interest (CNI). CNI Board Member Henry Kissinger, former US Diplomat and current Putin confidante, has gotten close to Trump.

Kissinger suggested both Tillerson and KT McFarland to Trump.
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#299772 - 03/19/17 07:51 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Stop the presses:

Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia Collusion
The Intercept

Quote:
Key Democratic officials are clearly worried about the expectations that have been purposely stoked and are now trying to tamp them down. Many of them have tried to signal that the beliefs the base has been led to adopt have no basis in reason or evidence.
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#299773 - 03/19/17 07:53 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
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...and then there is this as well:

Russian bank tells DOJ mysterious Trump computer connections may have been hacker hoax

Quote:
A Russian bank has reported to U.S. authorities that mysterious communications resumed recently between one of its computers and an email server tied to President Trump’s business empire, and it has developed evidence the new activity may be the work of a hacker trying to create a political hoax, Circa has learned.

Alfa Bank is asking the U.S. Justice Department for help solving the mystery and pledged its full cooperation.
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#299774 - 03/19/17 07:53 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Bummer. cry
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#299776 - 03/19/17 08:59 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
I'm not one who believes there would be a smoking gun. Remember, these are Russian professionals. Where evidence will connect Trump's minions and Russia are the amateurs, like Mike Flynn, Jared Kushner, or Donald Trump, Jr., who are not sophisticated enough to cover their tracks. Trump, of course, has the ability to stifle any serious investigation by not providing documents, serving up distractions and the support of moral-less sycophants in his administration and Congress.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299789 - 03/20/17 02:53 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
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Registered: 05/09/05
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I'm frustrated NW_P, I see a repeat of the Reagan/W years in our country's future. It sucks. Hmm
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#299792 - 03/20/17 04:11 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
Originally Posted By: pdx rick


I'm frustrated NW_P, I see a repeat of the Reagan/W years in our country's future. It sucks. Hmm


Maybe you are still blocking on the Bush years! Reagan, who would now be a pinko librul, only invaded Grenada. Bush and Cheney brought the world to catasstrophy that just keeps on giving.

Consider how you think the world would be now, if Gore had been president. Now try to conceive the long term damage inevitable after only a few years of Trump! I cant and dont want to even consider it! Butt, here we are!
I blame Karl Rove and FuxGnus!

Tat
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Except that it's lonesome work
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#299795 - 03/20/17 05:05 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
pdx rick Offline
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Originally Posted By: TatumAH
...Bush and Cheney brought the world to catasstrophy that just keeps on giving...

Well Cheney did. I never believed that George W was the affable dimwit that many said he was. I always thought it was a con, and that he really was dark, sinister, and soulless man.

Turns out that George W really IS an affable dimwit and it's Cheney (...and Libby) that re-wrote the Intel to get us into a unnecessary war of inconvenience, I learned after viewing the Frontline link above.

Originally Posted By: TatumAH
Consider how you think the world would be now, if Gore had been president.

I actually have, many times. Which is why I don't believe there is a God - no way would a supposed superior and intelligent being allow the Republicans to ever control our government and our lives.

Pretty sure that our world would be a much better and safer place today, had Gore been President instead of W Bush.
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#299796 - 03/20/17 05:14 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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I don't see Michelle Obama hugging Dick Cheney. Just sayin' Hmm

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#299840 - 03/21/17 08:08 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
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Interesting development:

Quote:
FBI’s Russian-influence probe includes a look at far-right news sites

Operatives for Russia appear to have strategically timed the computercommands, known as "bots," to blitz social media with links to the pro-Trump stories at times when the billionaire businessman was on the defensive in his race against Democrat Hillary Clinton, these sources said.

The bots' end products were largely millions of Twitter and Facebook posts carrying links to stories on conservative internet sites such as Breitbart News and InfoWars, as well as on the Kremlin-backed RTNews and Sputnik News, the sources said. Some of the stories were false or mixed fact and fiction, said the sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the bot attacks are part of an FBI-led investigation into a multifaceted Russian operation to influence last year's elections.

- McClatchy News
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#299841 - 03/21/17 12:36 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Jeffery J. Haas Offline


Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/03/04
Posts: 12413
Loc: Whittier, California
"I'm not gonna sit here and say, 'I'm not a Russian stooge,' because it's a (expletive) lie."

Noting he had appeared on RT "probably 100 times or more," he said sarcastically, "There's my Russian connection." (Alex Jones)

---Guess what, dumbass: If you're on RT all the time, you ARE a Russian stooge.
RT is the mouthpiece of The Kremlin.
_________________________
"Liberty is so important to "libertarians" that they think actually getting to exercise liberty should be a privilege that is overwhelmingly rationed in favor of the rich.
Recognizing this ought to tell us what we are dealing with."
---Piers Stephens

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#299853 - 03/21/17 08:12 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
Well no, simply BEING on RT a lot may just mean you are in the news. They do want people to watch after all.

But if RT loves you, THEN you are at least a "fellow traveler". Trump may not have been in the direct employ of the Kremlin, but they certainly were headed in the same direction for a very long time and a lot of Russian money ended up in Trump's accounts because so many Russians bought real estate in Trump buildings. In all past decades since the 40's this is exactly the kind of thing the FBI would watch very closely.

I still suspect they have some video of Trump doing nasty stuff, because they try that with everybody of any importance who visits Russia. Maybe it's impact would not be significant since Trump has already bragged about his sexual misadventures with women and teens.

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#299860 - 03/22/17 03:03 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
NW Ponderer Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
I became increasingly depressed, today, as it became increasingly obvious that Putin won our election. Recent reportage has showed conclusively that the Russian election disruption campaign was orchestrated to deliver, and successfully delivered, Trump the White House in order to disrupt our Democratic institutions, and weaken our position in the world.

No mistake, we are already at war - we just didn't know it. Trump was not legitimately elected, the Republican party colluded in giving that power to Putin, and it will take a MASSIVE effort of political will to right the ship. I doubt we're capable of mustering it.

I'm now curling up in the fetal position with my copy of a Russian-English dictionary to be able to communicate with our new overlords.
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299862 - 03/22/17 04:29 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
I know how you feel! Putin and his crew were mainly motivated by his hatred of Hillary Clinton, and intended to weaken her almost certain Presidency. This hatred was enthusiastically magnified, with exquisite timing, so that many American voters, already uneasy with her, were convinced that anything would be preferable. I saw otherwise sane humans expressing florid hatred for her, and was puzzled by it, but now it is clear brainwashing.

Putin and the boys are no doubt orgasmic, with elation that can only be compared to what Bin Laden felt as he saw on TV, expecting some annoying minor damage to Twin Towers, and seeing total collapse of both.

He may have also realized at that point: 1. Ooops I may have gone too far!
and 2. I am a dead man walking!

Putin has no similar second thoughts, and I doubt if he has anything to fear. This is what is so troubling, along with our realization that the constitution has nothing to remedy an illegitimate win. There is no do-over amendment, but there should be. Otherwise, the lesson learned by the GOP is that there is no downside to traitorous action, and will be bound to repeat it.

I have been considering the amendment and ratification process, and am also reaching for SSRIs. I predict there will never be another ratified amendment or at least not one acceptable to Democrats. Two thirds of House and Senate, and two thirds of state legislatures. Unless, of course in our worst dreams the GOP could repeal the Twenty-Second Amendment.

Cheers
Tat mad
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299863 - 03/22/17 04:53 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: NW Ponderer
I became increasingly depressed, today, as it became increasingly obvious that Putin won our election. Recent reportage has showed conclusively that the Russian election disruption campaign was orchestrated to deliver, and successfully delivered, Trump the White House in order to disrupt our Democratic institutions, and weaken our position in the world.

CONservatives on other sites yammer that there is no evidence that votes were changed.

Because CONservatives so fail at nuance, I explain to them an election can be "hacked" by releasing emails for one side in order to paint that side in a bad light. - which is EXACTLY what happened.


No one ever claimed that votes were altered. Perception was altered.


hack
v. hacked, hack·ing, hacks
a. To alter (a computer program): hacked her text editor to read HTML.
b. To gain access to (a computer file or network) illegally or without authorization.


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#299879 - 03/22/17 07:27 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
Exactly what Comey said under oath.

Quote:
In an influence campaign that the U.S. intelligence community in January said was ordered by Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, hackers working for Russian spy agencies penetrated the computers of the Democratic National Committee in 2015 and 2016, as well as the email accounts of Democratic officials. The material was relayed to WikiLeaks, the intelligence community reported, and the anti-secrecy group launched a series of damaging email releases that began just before the Democratic National Convention last summer and continued through the fall. The Russians’ goal was not only to undermine the legitimacy of the election process but also to harm Clinton’s campaign and boost Trump’s chances of winning, the intelligence community concluded.

“They’ll be back in 2020. They may be back in 2018,” Comey said. “One of the lessons they may draw from this is that they were successful, introducing chaos and discord” into the electoral process.


FBI Director Comey confirms probe of possible coordination between Kremlin and Trump campaign

This is not opinion or fake news. This is testimony under oath before Congress by the director of the FBI.

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#299881 - 03/22/17 10:25 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: NW Ponderer]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
я только немного говорю по-русски

I may be able to stumble around a little, temporizing as I try to learn Mandarin ... I don;t know who he will sell out to first

You are correct, in that the effort to set this right will require a level of political will not seen since 1860 and it is made even more difficult with the deep political divide.

The seemingly prescient dystopian novels from the 50's and 60's may have come true.

Hold Fast
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#299882 - 03/22/17 10:45 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: rporter314]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
Я только немного говорю по-русски??
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There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
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#299883 - 03/22/17 10:47 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
logtroll Offline
veteran

Registered: 04/26/10
Posts: 8424
Loc: New Mexico (not old Mexico)
You need to ask Phil for a decoder ring...
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#299884 - 03/22/17 10:49 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: logtroll]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
My orphan Annie decoder ring asks: Do you speak Tiger?
Tat
Tiger Translate


Edited by TatumAH (03/22/17 11:02 PM)
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#299885 - 03/23/17 12:59 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: TatumAH]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9667
Loc: Ireland
Well wasn't today fun kids?

Nunes running interference - possibly leaking classified information, Schiff "more than circumstantial", Manaforts 2005 help Russia Manifesto, and CNNs potential coordination between trump campaign and hackers.

Also brietbart under investigation for Russian ties.



Edited by Schlack (03/23/17 01:00 AM)
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#299886 - 03/23/17 01:02 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
Schlack Offline
veteran

Registered: 07/22/04
Posts: 9667
Loc: Ireland
Ohh also Wall street journal editorial board hitting hard against trump for his, well speaking trumpian.

Is it my birthday or something?
_________________________
"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words."
(Philip K.Dick)


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#299887 - 03/23/17 02:24 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: Schlack]
TatumAH Online   content
stranger

Registered: 02/18/11
Posts: 188
Loc: Upstate NY
No Birthday, but maybe a delayed St.Patty's day gift! Sorry, but we are out of gin.
Tat
_________________________
There's nothing wrong with thinking
Except that it's lonesome work
sevil regit

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#299920 - 03/23/17 11:38 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Offline
Moderator
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 14997
It was only Monday (3 days ago) that Director Comey exploded Trump's wire tap lie....
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Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#299925 - 03/24/17 01:40 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
rporter314 Offline
old hand

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 5914
Loc: Highlands, Tx
I really want to see the paranoid psychotic, Roger Stone, testifying about the "Deep State" and their plans to kill him.

Or what about the goofy Carter Page as he begins talking to himself.

Or Gen Flynn, the great American hero, consummate paranoid Islamophobe, testifying about the "Deep State" and why they got everything wrong about the 1.3B Muslims who are out to get everyone.

Or Manafort. Just a businessman innocently connected to Russian power circles.

Taken as a whole, I see a good movie in 2 years ... The Real Manchurians
_________________________
ignorance is the enemy
without equality there is no liberty

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#299969 - Yesterday at 09:08 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA

Oh my!! Trump's bff at The Enquirer, Michael Pecker, just threw Michael Flynn under the bus:



Wonder what that is all about? Is Flynn gonna turn states evidence against the Orange Clown™...erm, President Trump - and Trump caught wind and this is his pre-emptive strike?!? Inquiring minds want to know! laugh
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#299970 - Yesterday at 09:14 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
old hand

Registered: 02/27/06
Posts: 6406
Loc: North San Diego County
The Enquirer is such a load of crap these days. Last week their cover story was about Obama's trial for wiretapping. Don't their readers ever wonder why nothing "reported" ever turns out to be true? I guess they take there modus operendi from Trump.

And Trump didn't catch Flynn, he hired him!

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#299971 - Yesterday at 09:15 AM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
Member
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 05/09/05
Posts: 39975
Loc: Puget Sound, WA
Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
...And Trump didn't catch Flynn, he hired him!

Details, details, to the Trump faithful. coffee
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#299972 - Yesterday at 03:29 PM Re: Trump and Russia [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
stranger

Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 134
Loc: Michigan, USA
The beginnings of another Joe McCarthy episode. How many day till impeachment?

The current administration has all the earmarks of a failed Presidency and not even a hundred days yet LOL
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The older you get, the moldery and crustier you get.

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