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#298899 - 02/21/17 08:47 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: bigswede]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: bigswede
Doesn't really prove much. Some people always try to control others in the name of God.

Which is exactly what all three Abrahamic religions do. I'm glad that we can agree on that. smile
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#298906 - 02/22/17 12:14 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: rporter314]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
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Perhaps the most important passage:
Quote:
Dagens Nyheter analyzed crime statistics between October 2015 and January 2016 and concluded that refugees were responsible for only 1 percent of all crimimal incidents. That has done little to assuage perceptions, even among Swedes, that foreigners carry out the vast majority of crimes. A Pew Research Center study conducted in early 2016 indicated that 46 percent of Swedes believed that “refugees in our country are more to blame for crime than other groups.”


One can, I think, approach discussions with facts and data, or anecdotal assertions of opinion. I prefer fact and data.
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#298909 - 02/22/17 12:34 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
pondering_it_all Offline
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Quote:
Which is exactly what all three Abrahamic religions do.


You read The Torah or Old Testament and it is really pretty scary: The One God is a right bastard. There's stories about enemy people being wiped out by genocide, down to the last infant. All by God's Righteous Warriors. He really did not like people who worshipped other gods.

The Muslims, Christians, and Jews, on the other hand should all be on his good side since they only worship Him. He probably really loves the Muslims because they pray to him five times a day and even their name "Muslim" means "one who submits to the will of God". Is our problem with them that they are too devout, compared to us?

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#298914 - 02/22/17 09:50 AM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pondering_it_all]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: pondering_it_all
Quote:
Which is exactly what all three Abrahamic religions do.


You read The Torah or Old Testament and it is really pretty scary: The One God is a right bastard. There's stories about enemy people being wiped out by genocide, down to the last infant. All by God's Righteous Warriors. He really did not like people who worshipped other gods.

Yeah...no kidding. Not to mention that God is a jealous God, going around smiting people, killing their first born. Sheesh!!!! Hmm
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#298915 - 02/22/17 02:16 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: bigswede]
rporter314 Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 6644
Loc: Highlands, Tx
<low muffled snickering>

there are several ways of responding but I think this is to the point.

What you have done is cherry pick only sources which support your beliefs. It is actually unnecessary for you to provide any sourcing since in your mind you already "know" what the truth is. I call it the "arrogance of ignorance".

Now you would respond, see another lying misguided liberal who doesn;t know anything about the truth. And my response is this, I can also selectively find (rather easily by the way) sources (usually editorial and anecdotal) which would prove everything you believe. If you relied only on real factual information you would not have a case. You of course rebut that by saying it is not real facts but fake liberal facts. Thus there is a problem if you can not discern alternative facts from real facts.

Your whole response is an obfuscation of your underlying Islamophobia. I will not try to persuade you Islam is a religion of love as 1.5B people of the world believe vis a vis your singular belief it is a cult of hatred, that would be pointless, but as someone in the 1920's said, if the world is full of problems and not as you want it to be, find a scapegoat.
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#298916 - 02/22/17 04:17 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
Ujest Shurly Offline
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Registered: 10/16/16
Posts: 385
Loc: Sterling Heights, MI, USA
Originally Posted By: pdx rick
Yeah...no kidding. Not to mention that God is a jealous God, going around smiting people, killing their first born. Sheesh!!!! Hmm


That God is the old testament god and his son and surrogates are explaining what that God means when he does something. Kind of like what Ivonka and the President's surrogates do for President Donald (Vengeance is mine) Trump.
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#298917 - 02/22/17 06:38 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: rporter314]
pdx rick Offline
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Originally Posted By: rporter314
<low muffled snickering>

there are several ways of responding but I think this is to the point.

What you have done is cherry pick only sources which support your beliefs. It is actually unnecessary for you to provide any sourcing since in your mind you already "know" what the truth is. I call it the "arrogance of ignorance".

...or confirmation bias. Take your pick. smile
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#298922 - 02/22/17 11:30 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
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Any big city has more crime than a rural location, in Sweden, as elsewhere. It is convenient, if inaccurate, to blame this crime on a population of convenience. Also, as elsewhere, Sweden has its coterie of white nationalists. Nordic Resistance. And it has its share of nationalist leaders, who, like Trump, act as an umbrella under which supremecists feel welcome.

As a people, however, I think Swedes are a more welcoming society. Having witnessed firsthand the depravity of Fascism, they, perhaps remain more sensitive to the implications of autocracy. But any influx of outsiders is going to create disruptions. Some societies tolerate it better than others.
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A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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#298924 - 02/23/17 02:40 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
bigswede Offline
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Registered: 03/25/16
Posts: 323
Yes, as I have visited Sweden on several occasions I can confirm a welcoming and easy going attitude. Americans are welcome!
There is a small and most insignificant group of organized racists. The group of organized violent left is bigger.
But idiots aside, even immigrants need to learn how to behave in their new environment. There are reported instances of female genital mutilation, performed in Sweden and against the law, by some immigrant groups. There are reports of child weddings, confirmed cases with convictions in court and prison sentences, where males in a family murdered female members of the family for keeping undesired company (i.e. swedes).
Such things upset most Swedes, to put it mildly.

But all of this is off topic, not being Trumps fault.
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#298927 - 02/23/17 05:57 PM Re: Trump Forum [Re: pdx rick]
NW Ponderer Online   sad
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Speaking of Trump's fault... Trump's reversal on transgender bathroom directive: How we got here. CNN.

This is what happens when a neophyte President gives authority to ideologues. Note that this is Education (DeVos) and Justice (Sessions). DeVos doesn't know what Title IX is, and Sessions doesn't care. Sessions would just as soon scrap the 14th Amendment (and the 13th). What's a pesky little "law" like the civil rights acts got to do with "justice"?
_________________________
A well reasoned argument is like a diamond: impervious to corruption and crystal clear - and infinitely rarer.

Here, as elsewhere, people are outraged at what feels like a rigged game -- an economy that won't respond, a democracy that won't listen, and a financial sector that holds all the cards. - Robert Reich

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